Why does it take years to learn self-defense when a fight is less than 12 seconds?

[Bigshadow]

Easy to remember and anyone can do it!

Problem is... There isn't time to 'remember' in a situation. No-think.. DO!

If kata really was effective every sports would have people doing some form of kata to match there sport.

Tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, basketball, football, ruby,mountain climbing, hockey, and etc..... Aloha

Well not to equate sports and survival, but.... Those sports do have their katas. The golfer spends an enormous amount of time perfecting their swing, judging the distances, learning what technique to use.

The bowler, perfects their holding of the ball, the proper throw, what technique for what pin configuration.

The wrestler has theirs, basketball has their kata....

I don't see your point... If you look at the purpose of a kata then all those sports you mentioned has their own. It is just they don't look like your shotakan katas.

 

[Kenpodoc]

Hello, Many people believe it takes a long to time to learn self-defense and yet a fight is only seconds long.

Is our training practical and can a person who wants to learn to protect themselves have to train for years and years?

Think about how many moves and tarkets will we need to learn to stop an attacker? You will want to end it fast and escape alive? How long will it learn to do this? What do you share we your family and friends who don't train but want to know what they can do to protect themselves?

Look and study real street fights and watch real fights and see what happens in most of them, because that is how it will be for YOU! never the same each time and NO rules, totally chaos.

Are you prepare for this? .....only seconds to go...........Aloha

Mike Tyson used to knock everyone out in a minute or two. I guarantee he traind for years to do it. Carlos santana can knock off a solo stoned in a minute or two and I guarantee he practiced for years. My son swims for hours everyday to learn to swim a race in 20 seconds or so.

Most things worth doing can't be learned in a few seconds or even in a few days.

Jeff

 

[Mike Att]

It doesn't take years to learn how to defend yourself. A person can be trained to defend themselves in a short amount of time. It may take years to learn a system. But learning a system and learning how to defend yourself or fight, may not be the same thing.

There are plenty of black belts walking around who couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag, but they know a system.

 

[SAVAGE]

Personally, I think old uncle Bruce said it best...it is better to know and not need than to need and not know.....I have been involved in MA for 18 years...I do not train for one fight no matter if it lasts a second or an hour...I train to live.

I train to live through an altercation, I train to live a long life (one through survival and fitness), I train to be balanced, I train to be peaceful. And if some punk wants to test that he will and if you trained all your life and he was better...your still gonna get beat down.

 

[Kenpodoc]

It doesn't take years to learn how to defend yourself. A person can be trained to defend themselves in a short amount of time. It may take years to learn a system. But learning a system and learning how to defend yourself or fight, may not be the same thing.

There are plenty of black belts walking around who couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag, but they know a system.

True there are many Black Belt's who can't fight. That's not the point. The question is, are they more effective fighters than they were before they trained? I used Mike Tyson as my example for a reason. He was a thug and I'm sure he fought effectively before he recieved any training, but with training he was an immensely effective thug far more dangerous.

Jeff

 

[MJS]

It doesn't take years to learn how to defend yourself. A person can be trained to defend themselves in a short amount of time. It may take years to learn a system. But learning a system and learning how to defend yourself or fight, may not be the same thing.

There are plenty of black belts walking around who couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag, but they know a system.

We can look at this a few different ways. We have one person who devotes "X" number of years to a style. They train for a certain number of hours a week, learn required material, etc., and hopefully, can defend themselves if they need to.

Then we have someone who devotes time to an art such as Krav Maga. I use this art as an example, because it is one of those that is simple, easy to learn and has some effective techniques.

Now, regardless of which route the student takes, the fact remains that they still need to put in time to be sure that they can apply these techniques, make them work, etc.

Should someone have to spend 20yrs before they can defend themselves? I certainly would hope not, but even if they're learning simple, quick moves, they still need to put in that time.

Mike

 

[Bigshadow]

Yes, it doesn't take long to learn what it takes to keep from getting punched in the mouth or a bloody nose. However, if that is all I had to fear, I would just take the bloody nose. :shrug:

However, there are FAR WORSE things to fear in this world and 10 or 20 hours of self-defense techniques aren't going to do you a whole lot of good.

 

[Mike Att]

With all do respect KenpoDoc, that is the point. The question was does a person have to train for years to learn how to defend themselves? The answer is no. My point was that it may take years to learn a particular system, but learning a system does not neccassarily equate to learning how to fight. An effective fighting system should cover 3 components, mindset, tactics and skills. Most systems concentrate on skills, touch a little on mindset, and completely ignore tactics.

You bring up Mike Tyson, as a person who is more effective fighter after he trained. I don't think the original question was aimed at a person like Mike Tyson. Tyson was a street kid, who already had a natural tenacity and a tendency toward violence. I'm sure Iron Mike had little trouble defending himself, without formal boxing training.

 

[punisher73]

It seems like you guys are comparing apples to oranges. People don't take years to learn self-defense, they take years enjoying an art form. There are different reasons for learning an art, self-defense is only one aspect of that.

Also, you can "learn" a skill set in a very short amount of time. I could should you a lead punch, rear punch, uppercuts, hooks, elbows, knees and a couple of kicks in an hour or two. You have now just learned how to defend yourself. It will take A LOT longer though to be able to use those tools in a fluid manner to make them work a high percentage of the time. Now throw in some self-defense escapes from hold etc. again can be taught in a day but it will take a alot longer to be able to apply it without thinking.

Also, you need to learn how to turn up or tone down your response based on the situation. Is it a drunken friend who is just going a little overboard and you need to do something without hurting him or ruining your friendship (happened to me before) or is this a random event where you really need to defend your life. Again these skill sets take a little longer to learn and be able to incorporate.

So I guess my question is what do you consider "a long time", and do you mean learning a skill set in a short time and then taking a long time to perfect it? There is no short cut to the learning process you still have to ingrain the movements so they become second nature.

 

[SAVAGE]

It seems like you guys are comparing apples to oranges. People don't take years to learn self-defense, they take years enjoying an art form. There are different reasons for learning an art, self-defense is only one aspect of that.

Also, you can "learn" a skill set in a very short amount of time. I could should you a lead punch, rear punch, uppercuts, hooks, elbows, knees and a couple of kicks in an hour or two. You have now just learned how to defend yourself. It will take A LOT longer though to be able to use those tools in a fluid manner to make them work a high percentage of the time. Now throw in some self-defense escapes from hold etc. again can be taught in a day but it will take a alot longer to be able to apply it without thinking.

Also, you need to learn how to turn up or tone down your response based on the situation. Is it a drunken friend who is just going a little overboard and you need to do something without hurting him or ruining your friendship (happened to me before) or is this a random event where you really need to defend your life. Again these skill sets take a little longer to learn and be able to incorporate.

So I guess my question is what do you consider "a long time", and do you mean learning a skill set in a short time and then taking a long time to perfect it? There is no short cut to the learning process you still have to ingrain the movements so they become second nature.

YEP!

 

[swiftpete]

Hello, It will not take years to learn how to fight back? If someone try to attack you or rape you today? What will you do? Wait till you get more years of training.....again the point is there are things one can learn today and use today to fight back?

Why is your system not teaching you these things? Most people who train for years and years will tell you they are not ready? Why? ...simple they have not train for real fighting!

The martial arts have not forcus on real self-defense and real fighting! Most people believe Karate style will work on the streets.....ever see people fight like in class on the streets?

My years in Shotokan give me no confidence for street fighting...only against other students. Yet real fighting is different....wait till you get in a real fight......then you will understanding how good your training has been for you.......................Good luck.............Aloha

Maybe its just me that thought this, but from the thread and this, it sounds like you may have been involved in some sort of an incident recently..Have you?

 

[searcher]

Hello, It will not take years to learn how to fight back? If someone try to attack you or rape you today? What will you do? Wait till you get more years of training.....again the point is there are things one can learn today and use today to fight back?

Why is your system not teaching you these things? Most people who train for years and years will tell you they are not ready? Why? ...simple they have not train for real fighting!

The martial arts have not forcus on real self-defense and real fighting! Most people believe Karate style will work on the streets.....ever see people fight like in class on the streets?

My years in Shotokan give me no confidence for street fighting...only against other students. Yet real fighting is different....wait till you get in a real fight......then you will understanding how good your training has been for you.......................Good luck.............Aloha

If you have no confidence in the training you have recieved then you need to look for another place to train. Some schools specialize in "street fighting" and adrenal-stress training. You might want to look into one. The reason for the years it takes is getting prepared for the variables that come up and how to move without thinking. Pretty simple really. Some will be quicker studies than others. JMHO.

 

[Andrew Green]

Where did you get this 12 second statistic?

The only way a fight is going to end that fast is if it is not even, one guy has a significant size/strength/skill advantage. People train for years to make sure they are on the side that has that advantage.

100 meter sprint is over pretty fast too, guess it doesn't take much training...

 

[tradrockrat]

Where did you get this 12 second statistic?

The only way a fight is going to end that fast is if it is not even, one guy has a significant size/strength/skill advantage. People train for years to make sure they are on the side that has that advantage.

100 meter sprint is over pretty fast too, guess it doesn't take much training...

I agree with this post completely, but when I'm teaching self defense, I'm actually trying to keep the students OUT of a fight. In those classes I tell the students that if they are still fighting 15 seconds after the altercation starts, they have done something wrong. The entire purpose is to get away safely, not win a fight. As someone said earlier, Self defense isn't just about techniques and physical conditioning, it's about awareness and mental preparedness as well as strategies to avoid it all in the first place.


EDIT: Geez, I forgot to write this: In fact, in my classes, the 100 meter sprint was something to train in alongside techniques. Being faster certainly has its advantages in a self defense situation.

BTW - I also tell my self defense students that if they are facing a well trained individual, they are in trouble - that's why it's so important to avoid the conflict if at all possible. You never know who you face.

 

[Brother John]

It DOESN"T take "Years" to learn it.

It takes time and effort to get GOOD at it.



Your Brother
John

 

[still learning]

Hello, Thank-you for sharing your thoughts. Most fights less than 12 seconds , I just chose 12 seconds for the discussions. Most the books I read on realing fighting stress fights are one way and less for a few seconds only. Off course most of us will avoid or talk our way out if possible.

I just feel one needs to know how to strike back if attack day,end the confrontation.

What are those strikes we can use NOW to protect ourselves? Can most people learn those quickly and use it?

Everyone knows learning martial arts takes years and years to develop for one self. But why?....someone will one day come up with a system that can be learn in hours and be useful for the rest of your life.

Will it be YOU?

 

[tshadowchaser]

How long do the marines, army, etc spend training self defence
They spend way less than years and send out troops with some skill at defending themsleves. It depends on what you teach and how involved or basic it is and how hard you train

 

[Andrew Green]

How long do the marines, army, etc spend training self defence

ok... lets go by # of hours

I remember basic training... 18 hour days compared to 2-4 hours martial arts a week...

In the couple months training army recruits get they put in more hours them most martial arts students do in a couple years.

 

[Brother John]

In the couple months training army recruits get they put in more hours them most martial arts students do in a couple years.

Yup!
And...don't forget, the greatest change that the training in the military gives isn't the gain in skill...though that's there, it's the FORGING of the metal deep within, digging down deep to pull up the physical and mental fortitude to keep going and go for MORE when everything within you is screaming to stop.
The inner strength that that type of training gives is one of the biggest reasons for a well trained Military...because THEN, once they've got that fine-tuned STEEL in their heart, they can take that strength, discipline, perseverance and dedication to whatever task they've got to learn next. THEN the skills come in and are heightened, reenforced and built upon.

The two different forms of training really can't be compared THAT much, though perhaps there are some similarities....but for this argument, it's apples and oranges.

Your Brother
John

 

[hong kong fooey]

it takes years because you never know who you may have to defend yourself againist. yea a fight my take a couple of seconds but what about if there is more then one person?