Why do Japanese arts use the Japanese language?

[Kung Fu Wang]

only the Japanese artists seem to describe everything through the Japanese language.

The Judo throw "Osoto Gari — Large Outer Reap" is called

- Cut in ACSCA.
- Chop in USSA.

The Chinese term is "Qie".

Which way is better? You either have to force your students to learn a foreign language, or you have to live with the confusion.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ip men should be Ye Wen instead.

Is that the Cantonese for 葉問?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Is that the Cantonese for 葉問?

I don't speak Cantonese. I just pronounce 葉問 in Chinese.

One of my UT professor's last name is 葉. He uses Yeh instead. But sometime people use Ye also.

Dr. Raymond T. Yeh

 

[Jaeimseu]

What happens if I go to Korea to train TKD or HKD? What if somoene goes to China to train Kung Fu, or goes to Brazil to train BJJ? Those all use English terms for the techniques from what I can see. (At least, all of those arts have schools where it is common).

This post reminds me of when Oregon was going to allow people to pump their own gas. People started freaking out over how they're going to smell like gas, or how they'll probably set their cars on fire. Meanwhile, people in the other 48 states were just rolling their eyes, because we've been pumping our own gas since before we could drive.

If you go to Korea to study Taekwondo, you’d better understand the Korean terms, be really good at watching and copying other students, or attend one of the few dojang that cater to foreign students.

Kukkiwon testing is also conducted 100% in Korean. When I tested for my 4th dan even my written test was given to me in Korean.


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[skribs]

If you go to Korea to study Taekwondo, you’d better understand the Korean terms, be really good at watching and copying other students, or attend one of the few dojang that cater to foreign students.

Kukkiwon testing is also conducted 100% in Korean. When I tested for my 4th dan even my written test was given to me in Korean.


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I've seen videos of the Master Instructor course that were done in English.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I've seen videos of the Master Instructor course that were done in English.

They offer an instructor course for foreigners. I attended back in 2013. Typical events are conducted in Korean.


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[Kung Fu Wang]

I've seen videos of the Master Instructor course that were done in English.

I like to use the general terms and I don't like to use the style only terms. IMO, it's much easier to understand:

- jab, cross than front hand punch, back hand punch.
- single leg than knee (or leg) seize.
- head lock than neck surrounding.
- ...

So my long fist system does use jab/cross. As long as I start to use it, who cares?

 

[Flying Crane]

What happens if a student goes to Japan to train and doesn't understand a thing about what they're supposed to do because they're saying the Japanese words. Or if they grade in Japan and don't recognise the names of the techniques

What happens when a student travels to another country where they speak another language, to attend University? If they don’t speak the language yet, they learn it.

 

[dvcochran]

What happens if a student goes to Japan to train and doesn't understand a thing about what they're supposed to do because they're saying the Japanese words. Or if they grade in Japan and don't recognise the names of the techniques

True, but doesn't that happen in the beginning regardless of where you train?

 

[dvcochran]

We use quite a lot of Korean terminology in class. I never really thought about it a great deal on the forum. I try to use it when appropriate but by no means am I conversant Korean. Our GM speaks pretty good English but still has a strong accent and uses Korean words when the English equivalent does not come to mind. I rather like it because it helps you learn how the words are used in conversation.
It is not a required skill in class or for promotion. I do push our BB's to learn at least the body/strike/stance/kick phrases.

A drill I really enjoy doing is to line up the class and do walking drills up/down the floor changing the Korean command in a random fashion. Really works the noggin.

 

[isshinryuronin]

they're two questions here. First, why use Japanese terms that all? Second, why use them when speaking to someone who does not take a Japanese style?

As to the first, this isn't uncommon. We did it all the time in fencing. I would refer to a riposte and a fleche, not a counter-strike and a blitz. fencers all over the world all use the same terminology, and there's some real utility in that. And there's also a level precision to that. "Mawashi Geri" refers specifically to a Japanese karate style roundhouse kick, not other sorts of roundhouse kicks like a Thai kick. "Gedan barai" is a lot more specific than "low block" or "low hammerfist."

As for the second, that can simply be people not thinking it through, or people being a little pretentious. I'm sure it's not always one and not always the other.

I agree 100%. Just to add something to using French in fencing, like using Japanese in karate, or even using English terminology in Japanese baseball: Some words/concepts are just hard to precisely translate, but also, using the more or less original language helps the activity retain and remind us of its roots, its history and its traditions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Second, why use them when speaking to someone who does not take a Japanese style?

My wife is American. She doesn't like to go with me to my high school reunion because Chinese language is always used in those meeting.

IMO, it's impolite to speak in Chinese when there are American present and every Chinese all speak in English.

When I travel in Europe, I found something very interested.

- some French people pretend they don't speak English even if they do.
- some Italian people pretend they speak English even if they don't.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't speak Cantonese. I just pronounce 葉問 in Chinese.

One of my UT professor's last name is 葉. He uses Yeh instead. But sometime people use Ye also.

Dr. Raymond T. Yeh

Had to check with the wife, that is Mandarin, ye wen. It must be the Cantonese that is Ip Man then.

 

[Danny T]

You do know that Grammer has a capital G . I know American don't do irony, but that's ironic if your pointing out issues with someone else's Grammer

Now that's comical and incorrect.
Grammer is a name or a place therefore being a proper noun it is capitalized however, it isn't about language. The term grammar is about language.

 

[Xue Sheng]

- some French people pretend they don't speak English even if they do.
- some Italian people pretend they speak English even if they don't.

found something similar in Beijing
- some Beijingren pretend they don't speak English even if they do.
- some Mongolians pretend they speak English even if they don't.

 

[Encho]

I realize the answer to my question is quite obvious, only it isn't. I mean, obviously, Japanese arts are Japanese, is why they use the Japanese language.

However, one thing I've noticed across this forum and others, is that only the Japanese artists seem to describe everything through the Japanese language. All of the other arts are usually translated to English. What's even more strange, is the arts which influenced Japanese arts (Kung Fu), and arts inspired by Japanese arts (Taekwondo and BJJ), do not do this with their native language.

We use a small amount of Korean in my TKD school, but 99% of the time we speak English when we're discussing techniques. Front kick, side kick, reverse punch, high block, sweep. All of these words are in English. Similarly, whenever I see someone discussing Kung Fu strategies on here, or I watch videos of BJJ techniques, the concepts and techniques are all spoken in English, instead of Chinese or Portugese.

And yet, more often than not, if someone comes into a conversation with their Karate or Judo background, they'll say something like "if your opponent has good kisame kicks, and has a fast right gyaku tsuki, you can use kiba dachi almost kokutsu dachi, and then gedan barai." They say this as if it's supposed to mean anything to someone taking Taekwondo.

Japanese arts are big on using Japanese termology, mostly because when you learn Japanese martial arts it is taught to some extent in Japanese. In some cases, some teachers even try to adapt Japanese mannerism when teaching, it is in keeping with the Wa 和 or balance of the the school. Japanese arts are very codified, rigid could be another reason why the overlap of using Japanese terms more than other arts. In some cases the Japanese words have a symbolic meaning rather than an actual translation like bird step, giant rock drop, etc.

 

[jobo]

Now that's comical and incorrect.
Grammer is a name or a place therefore being a proper noun it is capitalized however, it isn't about language. The term grammar is about language.

You are correct, Grammer does have a capital G as it's a proper noun.

However, the set of rules governing a language, i.e. grammar, is not capitalised unless it's starting a sentence and contains no 'e'.

in the context he used it, ie English Grammer, it's the definite article and so should be capitalised. theres only one English Grammer.

the same way mother is not capitalised unless your talking about your own Mother then it is, as it's now a proper noun

 

[oftheherd1]

I heard of a school in Northern Virginia that taught TKD using korean terminology. Most I have seen use english terminology. My Hapkido GM in Korea used English when teaching american students, and Korean in his off post schools.

 

[pdg]

in the context he used it, ie English Grammer, it's the definite article and so should be capitalised. theres only one English Grammer.

the same way mother is not capitalised unless your talking about your own Mother then it is, as it's now a proper noun

But grammar, as in the grammatical language rules, isn't spelled with an E, so it's a different word to start with.

Also, that rule of capitalisation doesn't count unless you're using "English Grammar" as a noun or as a title.



Edit: You'll have to clarify which grammar/Grammer you're actually trying to discuss here by the way.

 

[W.Bridges]

lesson to the referee