When to begin cross-training

[psi_radar]

Very good point. It strikes me funny though, as to why some people, especially some of the die hard Kenpo guys speak so negative about crosstraining, when the GM of the very system that they study did it. Their response is, "Why cross train? Its already in there." Well of course its in there....someone must have crosstrained to put it there.

Yeah, I don't get the adamant negativity either, though I do respect those die hard Kenpo guys' devotion to the art. I guess goals vary from martial artist to artist and that's that.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by psi_radar
Yeah, I don't get the adamant negativity either, though I do respect those die hard Kenpo guys' devotion to the art. I guess goals vary from martial artist to artist and that's that.

That's true.
....................................................................................
JUST TO BREAK THE MONOTONY OF AGREEMENT
....................................................................................
What do you guys feel is WRONG with cross-training. Obviously you feel it can and even should be done, but what are it's draw-backs. Everything has pros and cons, what are they for cross training?

Your Brother (who will post his own answer later)
John

 

[Seig]

Some people like cross training, others do not. In MY experience, it really doesn't matter. What I have found, is that at the upper levels of the arts, they seem to blend. Think of a traingle with a broad base, at some point you near the top. The closer you get to the top, the narrower the triangle. What I have seen is that as my understanding grows, I see fewer and fewer differences at the upper levels of the martial arts. As I tell my students, especially those that come from other systems, it's a matter of degree. Something to look at and think about, we all spend so much time looking at the techniques, we forget to look at the attacks, there is as much information in attacking correctly for our "ideal" phase as there is in the techniques themselves.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Seig
Something to look at and think about, we all spend so much time looking at the techniques, we forget to look at the attacks, there is as much information in attacking correctly for our "ideal" phase as there is in the techniques themselves.

EXCELLENT POINT!
There's an art to being a good attacker.
Thank you

Your Brother
John

 

[Rob Broad]

Get your first black in your primary art, and then start into other arts. This way you will have a solid base and grasp of what you will be getting into.

 

[LIONHEART]

Hi, I may not study Kenpo as it appears many of the people on this thread do but I thought I'de throw in my 2 cents anyway, I must admit to being a firm believer in cross training for various reasons, firstly to be exposed to the different cultures, secondly once you have been exposed to various styles you begin to see a pattern emerge that the various styles arent infact all that different if you break it down to the basics, another great point as has been said before is finding the strengths of the various styles and blending them to suit your own ability.

I agree that one should initially have a "base" style and not begin everything at once but i dont believe they need the proficiency of black belts or even brown, I personally began cross training again after only 9 months of practicing my "base" style and find that it is working fantastically. The styles I currently train are TaeKwon Do(ITF), Tai Chi Chuan, Kobujutsu, Amok and Eskrido. Personally I studied BJJ and various forms of Russian and Israeli Grappling techniques so am fairly well versed on the ground so the drills in these arts keep me in practice.

I feel Cross Training is more efficient but remember when it comes to martial arts its about the indiviual not the style so find what works for you. hope I could be of some help.

Yours in MA LIONHEART

 

[Storm]

Hi

This is something I have looked into and wonderd about myself. Im a BB in kenpo yet I feel I am still very much a beginner. There is alot more to learn after BB and Im not even part way through it.

The times when I have wanted to cross train, I thought was because it would enhance what I am learning now. After disscussing it with my current Instructors I realised that Im not ready to do that yet, I was just disillussioned in my training at the time. The honeymoon period for BB was over and I needed to refocus and remotivate my trainging. So I guess my answer to this is that you will know when the time is right for you to cross train if you ever need to.

 

[Han-Mi]

It depends on what you mean by cross training. If you mean to completely immerse yourself in another art, I would say you should attain your 2nd dan black belt before moving on.
If you mean just training in other arts as a supplement, I would say you should start as soon as you have a good grasp on the basics of your art. What I mean by this is, you should go to seminars of other styles, and try to train with instructors of other styles on a trading knowledge basis. I find that most good instructors are willing to share knowledge. Also, incorporation of tapes and books are good if you have some good training partners to practice with. I don't like the idea of completely changing arts.

 

[mhouse]

While I have not done any cross training myself, I agree that it is necessary. One form of cross-training I'd like to do is learn American Kenpo. I currently study Shaolin Kempo (Nohelty&Bryant/Cerio/Pesare lineage). I believe that in studying another form of Kenpo I would be exposed to new ways of exploring the concepts involved. I also think that studying Akido and Ju Jitsu would enhance the basics of the locks and controls I have learned as part of Kempo.

 

[hedgehogey]

Cross training is very neccesary. A fight can happen at free standing, clinch or ground and you need to be prepared for every possibility.

The times when I have wanted to cross train, I thought was because it would enhance what I am learning now. After disscussing it with my current Instructors I realised that Im not ready to do that yet, I was just disillussioned in my training at the time.

He's feeding you a line. Discouraging cross training is a mcdojo warning sign.

 

[hedgehogey]

Edit: Oops.

 

[psi_radar]

Hi

This is something I have looked into and wonderd about myself. Im a BB in kenpo yet I feel I am still very much a beginner. There is alot more to learn after BB and Im not even part way through it.

The times when I have wanted to cross train, I thought was because it would enhance what I am learning now. After disscussing it with my current Instructors I realised that Im not ready to do that yet, I was just disillussioned in my training at the time.

It all depends on what feels good for you. At black belt you should know whether or not you'd like to train in another art. Don't let your instructors decide for you. You've put in a lot of time. Do you feel your training fulfills your goals with the martial arts?

 

[MJS]

Hi

This is something I have looked into and wonderd about myself. Im a BB in kenpo yet I feel I am still very much a beginner. There is alot more to learn after BB and Im not even part way through it.

The times when I have wanted to cross train, I thought was because it would enhance what I am learning now. After disscussing it with my current Instructors I realised that Im not ready to do that yet, I was just disillussioned in my training at the time. The honeymoon period for BB was over and I needed to refocus and remotivate my trainging. So I guess my answer to this is that you will know when the time is right for you to cross train if you ever need to.

It should be up to you to decide if you want to crosstrain, not your instructor!!! If they want to limit themselves and not do it, thats fine, but you are your own person and should be able to do what you want to do.

Mike

 

[pete]

At black belt you should know whether or not you'd like to train in another art.

why wait until black belt to discover you may enjoy or be better suited to a different art? it doesn't hurt to taste some samples along the way.... each taste will either solidify you dedication to your base art, bring something back to enhance your base art, or maybe change your direction entirely (the last is what your instructor may be fear... financially)

pete

 

[Ceicei]

I'm a green belt in EPAK and started cross-training with Judo this month. I find that Judo really goes very nicely with Kenpo. The principles of judo helps me do my kenpo techniques better. I also am now noticing a lot of judo-type movements that exist in kenpo already (I didn't recognize these for what they were until I started cross-training). I am really glad I made the decision to cross-train.

When I made my decision last month to do this and told my kenpo instructor, he encouraged me. He knew already of my love for kenpo and that I wouldn't leave my base style. He knew I would become a better kenpoist. Already after a few judo classes, he and I have seen improvements with the way I move and do techniques.

:asian:
- Ceicei

 

[pete]

I'm a green belt in EPAK and started cross-training with Judo this month...When I made my decision last month to do this and told my kenpo instructor, he encouraged me. - Ceicei

That's great. An instructor who discourages a student's desire to cross-train, or even attend outside seminars, or does nothing to bring in talent from other arts or disciplines lacks the confidence in his own ability to retain a student.

 

[Brother John]

It should be up to you to decide if you want to crosstrain, not your instructor!!! If they want to limit themselves and not do it, thats fine, but you are your own person and should be able to do what you want to do.

Mike

Hey Mike
I agree, it should be up to the student what they do with their learning experience. But it didn't sound like his instructor was telling him what to do, sounds to me like his instructor advised him. :idunno:
Just my observation...

Your Brother
John

 

[Storm]

Hey Mike
I agree, it should be up to the student what they do with their learning experience. But it didn't sound like his instructor was telling him what to do, sounds to me like his instructor advised him. :idunno:
Just my observation...

Your Brother
John

Very True..and no I do not belong to a Mcdojo.

I asked advise and it was entirely my decision not theirs not to cross train at this time. I was wanting to train in another art for the wrong reason. They acutually said that it was good to open ones eyes to other arts and told me to speak to others in our club that had done and received B.belts in other arts to get their views as well. Which I did.

Definatley no force or dissaproval on my Instructors part.

 

[MJS]

Very True..and no I do not belong to a Mcdojo.

I asked advise and it was entirely my decision not theirs not to cross train at this time. I was wanting to train in another art for the wrong reason. They acutually said that it was good to open ones eyes to other arts and told me to speak to others in our club that had done and received B.belts in other arts to get their views as well. Which I did.

Definatley no force or dissaproval on my Instructors part.

Thank you for the clarification. It was a little vauge, as your post really didnt go into detail saying if they had a say in your CT decision or not. I have seen some schools who look down upon that. I guess you can call it intimidation....if the student feels that if dont listen to the head inst. then basically there will be hell to pay.

You said that you wanted to train in another art for the wrong reason. What was that reason if you dont mind me asking??

Mike

 

[Storm]

You said that you wanted to train in another art for the wrong reason. What was that reason if you dont mind me asking??
Mike

This will probably make me sound like a total idiot to the more experienced MAist. Its a long story...

There is such a huge build up to BB. For months I trained as hard as I could, even got a personal trainer at the gym to get me to my peak etc. Did the grading, what a blast, would give anything to be able to do it again as I love the pressure that it put me under.

Anyway after that I had to have some time off sick and wasnt able to have much contact for the last 5 mths after so you start to get soft. We had new people starting all the time and I was expected to help with Instructing. I didnt feel I had the right to be doing that when I couldnt participate in it myself. Didnt think I was good enough.

After I started to come right and get back into it I felt I had lost my edge and I was Instructing more and more and to be honest I felt like I was cast aside and forgotten about. I did not realise the importance of Instructing to my own training. I thought the only way you could learn was by being one of the crowd being told what to do and to jump when the Instructor said. For years I had been told what to do jumped when told and didnt really think about it.

After having Instructed a little more - Adults and children, I have found I am learning more and have alot more to learn. I am also doing more training for my next syllabus (2nd degree) can see things a little differently dont want to jump off this hill before I get to the top. No need yet to do something else when I dont feel I have finished what I am doing and really enjoy.

To be honest - never saw myself as a teacher, never had enough faith in my own ability until I saw some of my students improving and asking for more help from me before their class had started. When you are talking about children who are 8 years old wanting "Your" help and seeing them improve because of "You" it makes it worth while.

The short of it all was I was going to jump to another school so I could go back to being the new person as I was scared of the responcibility I had been given.

My Instructors are open to any discussons about all aspects of training and keep very open minds. They would never say you cant go somewhere else or whatever as the individual does need to make their own decision. They are there to give guidance and do it well.

So hope this makes sense.

Cheers D