What would we do if the lights went out?

[Kong Soo Do]

There is a lot of government and academic research done into how people behave in a disaster and it's not how many imagine.

I'm all for academic research, unless it doesn't stack up against what has actually happened in the real world. Many will work together. Many will not. If you think everyone is going to rally together you may want to talk to the victims that were in the Super Dome during Katrina. Or perhaps talk with the first responders who were fired on while trying performing rescue operations. Or talk to the police from that area...I'm mean the one's that weren't actively looting themselves.

So yes, many folks will band together and help each other. Many are going to panic when they don't have food and water and their way of normalcy has disappeared.

Better to have prepared ahead of time. That's just common sense.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

There speaks a man who can afford more than a weeks grocery shopping at a time.

That hasn't always been the case.

What about people and there's a great many over here who have to get their food from a food bank and can't afford a 'Big Mac and fries'?

Okay, what about them? Does this include you? If not, then perhaps your own prior preparedness can benefit a few others. Personally, I'm not going to take food out of my families mouth to help people, who had the means but lacked the foresight, to plan for a rainy day. On the other hand, I've always made efforts to help those that are unable to help themselves. Only by being in the position to help myself can I then help others.

...all this doom and gloom is rubbish frankly.

Frankly, that's a cop out. It isn't doom and gloom to discuss disaster preparedness. No on is saying the world ends tomorrow. Rather a realistic assessment that disasters, such a one in the OP, have happened, can happen and do happen. Whether the power goes out due to a terrorist attack, nature phenomena or storm the results are that the power is out. The question now becomes what prior planning did you/I/they do to mitigate the situation. Earthquakes happen, tsunami's happen, wildfires happen, flat tires happen. It isn't doom and gloom to accept that reality and then discuss ways to mitigate the aftermath. If that is too doom and gloom for someone then this isn't the thread they should be involved in frankly.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

The 'modern' generation is far more inventive and could manage far better than you'd imagine

Disagree. They are no where near as self reliant as generation in the past. Can't speak for the U.K. but we have the entitlement generation here in the U.S. We have those willingly dependent upon the system to support them. We have a generation that can fix your Iphone or PC but don't know how to properly disinfect water, manage an injury if 911 isn't working, make a proper shelter, gather food (that isn't in a package on a shelf in an air conditioned store) etc. Does that cover ALL people? Of course not. But it covers a wide swath of the population.

The time to learn how to swim is not when the ship is sinking. The time to make a plan is when you are calm, under no stress, can do proper research and make a sound plan. Those with the 'it can't happen to me' mentality will have to live with the consequences of their decisions.

And to be clear, those that absolutely don't have the financial means to do at least what is in the list in the link I posted is VERY small. And those that can should then put themselves in a position where they can help others that are unable to help themselves.

 

[Tez3]

That hasn't always been the case.



Okay, what about them? Does this include you? If not, then perhaps your own prior preparedness can benefit a few others. Personally, I'm not going to take food out of my families mouth to help people, who had the means but lacked the foresight, to plan for a rainy day. On the other hand, I've always made efforts to help those that are unable to help themselves. Only by being in the position to help myself can I then help others.



Frankly, that's a cop out. It isn't doom and gloom to discuss disaster preparedness. No on is saying the world ends tomorrow. Rather a realistic assessment that disasters, such a one in the OP, have happened, can happen and do happen. Whether the power goes out due to a terrorist attack, nature phenomena or storm the results are that the power is out. The question now becomes what prior planning did you/I/they do to mitigate the situation. Earthquakes happen, tsunami's happen, wildfires happen, flat tires happen. It isn't doom and gloom to accept that reality and then discuss ways to mitigate the aftermath. If that is too doom and gloom for someone then this isn't the thread they should be involved in frankly.

Frankly I'm not sure what you are on about, I haven't prepared anything for anything. I'm talking about people who can't afford to buy food let along 'save' food. It is all gloom and doom when people whinge on about the 'end of days' etc etc etc. If you focus so much on preparing for what may never happen you miss what is happening now, fine get some knowledge about how to survive but then get on with your life, perhaps some campaigning for a greener world less pollution, less damaging of the earth wouldn't go amiss rather than preparing for the end of the world caused by mankind's misuse of it. Most people who actually live in areas where there's earthquakes, brushfires etc do know what to do however I think you have misunderstood what I meant by doom and gloom, there's a whole industry out there making sure people are panicking about all these disasters that could happen.

I also don't think that because you disagree with me I should stop posting on this thread

 

[Tez3]

Disagree. They are no where near as self reliant as generation in the past. Can't speak for the U.K. but we have the entitlement generation here in the U.S. We have those willingly dependent upon the system to support them. We have a generation that can fix your Iphone or PC but don't know how to properly disinfect water, manage an injury if 911 isn't working, make a proper shelter, gather food (that isn't in a package on a shelf in an air conditioned store) etc. Does that cover ALL people? Of course not. But it covers a wide swath of the population.

The time to learn how to swim is not when the ship is sinking. The time to make a plan is when you are calm, under no stress, can do proper research and make a sound plan. Those with the 'it can't happen to me' mentality will have to live with the consequences of their decisions.

And to be clear, those that absolutely don't have the financial means to do at least what is in the list in the link I posted is VERY small. And those that can should then put themselves in a position where they can help others that are unable to help themselves.

You see, slagging off the current generation, you don't actually know how they will react in a situation, you are surmising, assuming. What makes you think that the generation during the last war actually knew how to do all those things? What makes you think that the current generation don't know how to do these things? Are you judging them on appearances alone? How do you know that they won't be able to cope? Don't you think that similar people have found themselves in crisis situations all over the world and have survived? Do you think earthquakes and tsunamis only happen to people who know how to light a fire and boil water? Your very evident feeling of superiority is perhaps clouding your judgement and leading you to under estimate people. I've seen people like those you describe act bravely and sensibly during a crisis, who have managed to deal with injuries and wounds, who haven't panicked and who have worked together under hugely stressful conditions.

I hope you are just talking about the US when you say the amount of people who can't afford these things is very small because trust me, in the UK that isn't true. Poverty is rising here, the amount of people who use food banks is rising, people are losing their homes due to debt, the amount of people who cannot afford to stockpile food is higher than those who can at this point in time, and things won't get any better anytime soon. Food banks stockpiling for summer amid fears free school meals children will go hungry - Mirror Online

 

[Tez3]

It's a lucrative industry though isn't it, perhaps making the world a better place would be a better use for all that money instead of making companies rich.
Industries Making the Most Money on Doomsday Preppers - Yahoo Finance

 

[Kong Soo Do]

It is all gloom and doom when people whinge on about the 'end of days' etc etc etc.

Who is talking about 'end of days' in this thread? We are, in fact, talking about it NOT being your end of days.

If you focus so much on preparing for what may never happen you miss what is happening now...

Who has suggested focusing so much on 'gloom and doom' that you miss the good times? I don't believe anyone has suggested this or made any suggestions to that effect.

Please don't make an issue out of something that isn't even mentioned in the thread. Sensible 'prepping' means tossing a couple of extra cans of tuna fish in the cart when you're shopping. It means having a means to disinfect your water should it become necessary. It means having a comfortable pair of shoes in the trunk (boot for our U.K. cousins) in case you break down.

...perhaps some campaigning for a greener world less pollution, less damaging of the earth...

I'll give you an example; I recycle my trash. I also compost a lot of my trash for reuse as soil for my garden as well as fertilizer. That is an area of interest and also something I have a bit of knowledge in so I can pass along that information to others. Prepping is also an area of interest that I have a bit of knowledge in so I can pass along information to others.

I also don't think that because you disagree with me I should stop posting on this thread

Didn't say you should. What I said is if someone can't handle the topic they picked the wrong thread. This thread isn't about ponies and lollypops. It is about disaster and emergency preparedness and how to prevent or mitigate those situations.

You see, slagging off the current generation, you don't actually know how they will react in a situation, you are surmising, assuming.

It isn't surmising when you see realworld examples of what has happened in events like Katrina, Sandy etc. And academic studies are all well and fine. Quite different when the agency you work for is tasked with responding to what is actually happening. Then you have a difference from what a study suggests and what you and fellow L.E. have actually seen on the ground. To be clear, many fine examples of people helping others out. No suggestions to the contrary. However, the opposite is just as true...unfortunately.

I hope you are just talking about the US when you say the amount of people who can't afford these things is very small because trust me, in the UK that isn't true. Poverty is rising here, the amount of people who use food banks is rising, people are losing their homes due to debt, the amount of people who cannot afford to stockpile food is higher than those who can at this point in time, and things won't get any better anytime soon.

And what does that have to do with people that CAN afford an extra $5 a week? Nothing at all. It's a red herring.

 

[Tez3]

Who is talking about 'end of days' in this thread? We are, in fact, talking about it NOT being your end of days.



Who has suggested focusing so much on 'gloom and doom' that you miss the good times? I don't believe anyone has suggested this or made any suggestions to that effect.

Please don't make an issue out of something that isn't even mentioned in the thread. Sensible 'prepping' means tossing a couple of extra cans of tuna fish in the cart when you're shopping. It means having a means to disinfect your water should it become necessary. It means having a comfortable pair of shoes in the trunk (boot for our U.K. cousins) in case you break down.



I'll give you an example; I recycle my trash. I also compost a lot of my trash for reuse as soil for my garden as well as fertilizer. That is an area of interest and also something I have a bit of knowledge in so I can pass along that information to others. Prepping is also an area of interest that I have a bit of knowledge in so I can pass along information to others.



Didn't say you should. What I said is if someone can't handle the topic they picked the wrong thread. This thread isn't about ponies and lollypops. It is about disaster and emergency preparedness and how to prevent or mitigate those situations.



It isn't surmising when you see realworld examples of what has happened in events like Katrina, Sandy etc. And academic studies are all well and fine. Quite different when the agency you work for is tasked with responding to what is actually happening. Then you have a difference from what a study suggests and what you and fellow L.E. have actually seen on the ground. To be clear, many fine examples of people helping others out. No suggestions to the contrary. However, the opposite is just as true...unfortunately.



And what does that have to do with people that CAN afford an extra $5 a week? Nothing at all. It's a red herring.

Ponies and lollipops? Weird as is the 'red herring' bit. As for 'handling' the topic, sorry is it that difficult or scary then?

Actually the 'studies' weren't an academic exercise having a guess at what could happen but were evidence based, carefully recorded reporting from the very people who were as you put it 'tasked to respond'. Academic doesn't mean it's hypothetical, it means it was carefully researched and evidence taken after the events and cross checked for veracity.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

It's a lucrative industry though isn't it, perhaps making the world a better place would be a better use for all that money instead of making companies rich.
Industries Making the Most Money on Doomsday Preppers - Yahoo Finance

Too bad you don't put as much energy into personal preparedness as you do using Google. Are folks making money selling preps? Yep. That's called capitalism. Do you need to buy any of it to be prepared? Nope. You can get a TON of good preps at the $ store. A LOT of preps can be DIY...which is the best way to be self reliant. It's more about making sound choices than buying 'tacticool' preps.

And going 'green' is wonderful and I'm all for it. But seems a LOT of folks are cashing in on that too. Let's see, how much are those Eco-friendly cars again?

 

[Tez3]

Too bad you don't put as much energy into personal preparedness as you do using Google. Are folks making money selling preps? Yep. That's called capitalism. Do you need to buy any of it to be prepared? Nope. You can get a TON of good preps at the $ store. A LOT of preps can be DIY...which is the best way to be self reliant. It's more about making sound choices than buying 'tacticool' preps.

And going 'green' is wonderful and I'm all for it. But seems a LOT of folks are cashing in on that too. Let's see, how much are those Eco-friendly cars again?

Really, pity you didn't read my posts where you'll find I'm more than prepared for most things, I've been very well educated on how to survive, I've even done jungle survival. I can cope perfectly well in a variety of surroundings, ex mil and ex LE as well as extensive Scouting and Guiding outdoor experience, Duke of Edinburgh scheme expedition trainer etc.
As for capitalism, well that's the problem isn't it...capitalism

Oh and an awful lot of knowledge on psychology and how people behave in chaotic situations ( part of what I did in the military was to know how people behave in certain situations) so no Googling needed.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I have read your posts Tez, we've talked enough about stuff in general to respect what you have to say. I commented based on this comment;

I haven't prepared anything for anything.

But in light of your last post, perhaps I didn't understand what you meant?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

In regards to capitalism, I'm all for free enterprise. But it doesn't mean I have to buy. As an example of what I'm talking about, there is a product for pre-made tinder. Great idea, but it isn't cheap by any means. So I make my own, literally for pennies.

DIY Firestarter Wafer

So this is an example of DIY that provides a useful 'prep' without paying a ridiculous $.

And it was fun and gives a sense of satisfaction for having done a project that could be useful. Not just for an emergency but when I go remote camping.

Proper prepping also means saving money sometimes. For example, after Sandy a box of matches was being scalped for $10. Not a fine example of people helping people. Yet a simple 50 cent lighter or a $2 mag bar purchased ahead of time would save $ and heartache later.

As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[drop bear]

I'm all for academic research, unless it doesn't stack up against what has actually happened in the real world. Many will work together. Many will not. If you think everyone is going to rally together you may want to talk to the victims that were in the Super Dome during Katrina. Or perhaps talk with the first responders who were fired on while trying performing rescue operations. Or talk to the police from that area...I'm mean the one's that weren't actively looting themselves.

So yes, many folks will band together and help each other. Many are going to panic when they don't have food and water and their way of normalcy has disappeared.

Better to have prepared ahead of time. That's just common sense.

Do you have a source?

 

[Transk53]

I am sort of kind of living out of a bob at the moment for work.

Slept in a bivy bag last night.

On a holiday in Wales as a kid, we slept outside in big plastic bags passing for such. Had the sleeping bag underneath. When we woke, we had Deer droppings near by. That was fun camping out.

 

[Transk53]

Do you have a source?

That is the thing with academic research, it is just that, facts and figures by the numbers. Not a lot of practicle,

 

[Transk53]

That is the thing with academic research, it is just that, facts and figures by the numbers. Not a lot of practicle,

Unless people actually test it out on the ground. One persons research is often shot down by another who disagrees.

 

[Tez3]

That is the thing with academic research, it is just that, facts and figures by the numbers. Not a lot of practicle,

Actually you are wrong, the 'studies' I'm talking about are eye witness accounts ( these days often it's video from mobile phones and tablets etc), reports from emergency services, police and military, charities, in fact anyone who was at the scene of any disaster. they are all collated, checked and verified. It isn't research as in lab work or postulating what happens but actual accounts of people's behaviour.
It's not 'testing' anything at all because the testing that was done has been proved incorrect by these reports. All the assumptions said that people would panic and mass hysteria would break out, the truth as shown by all the latest reports such as I'm talking about has shown this to be untrue.

 

[drop bear]

Ok. Being set up to look after your self helps emergency services dedicate more time to those who cant. So moving away from the mad max style survival you do make it a bit easier on everybody to be self sufficient.

Which is why we have these government incentives.

Things that will help if the lights go out.

Have your car full of petrol. Keep it full rather than empty. It doesn't cost any more and gives you a few days grace should service stations go down.

Have some cash. Same reason.

A barbecue is one of the easiest survival cookers for the home. When the power goes out. Cook from the fridge then the freezer then the stored food.

With warning. I fill up bottles of water and throw it in the freezer makes it run more efficiently keeps it colder longer.

You can alfoil your windows for insulation. Baking spray keeps it on there.

If you are going to store canned food. Buy vegies as well. You go a bit nuts after a few days eating spam. (which is prohibitively expensive here anyway)

 

[drop bear]

That is the thing with academic research, it is just that, facts and figures by the numbers. Not a lot of practicle,

Yes but that is not what is being compared. I cant ask first responders from Katrina what their take was.

So it was a sneaky way for kong soo do to side step that there was evidence against without actually addressing the evidence.

So yes stories on the ground have worth but we never actually got any.

 

[drop bear]

On a holiday in Wales as a kid, we slept outside in big plastic bags passing for such. Had the sleeping bag underneath. When we woke, we had Deer droppings near by. That was fun camping out.

Nice work. I went the la de da version. With gortex and a poncho liner. What did work well though was a truck sunshade.(one of those silver ones) that I used as a mat. They are also so cheap as to be disposable.