What would we do if the lights went out?

[Tez3]

Looks good but that would be an over 3000 mile commute

No, it wouldn't be, you do it with your kids/nephews/nieces/whoever at home. It's a challenge you can do anywhere. Various Guiding groups issue challenges and sell badges for completing to raise money for funds, the challenges can be done by anyone though.

 

[Tez3]

This depends on the location we're talking about. In a small, rural town it may not be that big of an issue. In a large city, imagine no working lights and the accidents it would cause. I'm in L.E. and I can tell you when a good storm comes through and knocks out all the power in the area, and there area lot of of accidents, first responder resources are stretched beyond capacity. Now let's multiple that. Response times will be that much slower, if at all. At some point the fuel runs out. Many municiple/county/state resource may be able to continue longer IF the fuel sources are backed up by generator. Not all are backed up. And of those that are, the capabilities are limited to the available fuel supply which won't be resupplied in a timely manner in a wide-spread event.

Well maybe in your city life stops with traffic lights but not in the rest of the world. I've been in Manchester when the bombs went off, I've been in London when bombs went off, I've been in Belfast when the bombs went off and people don't react they way you think they are going to, the panic isn't widespread, people are a lot more sensible than is given credit for, this is backed up by research btw.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Well maybe in your city life stops with traffic lights but not in the rest of the world. I've been in Manchester when the bombs went off, I've been in London when bombs went off, I've been in Belfast when the bombs went off and people don't react they way you think they are going to, the panic isn't widespread, people are a lot more sensible than is given credit for, this is backed up by research btw.

Tez, those are traumatic events to be sure, but they are localized and do not affect the infrastructure in a way that I'm talking about. Katrina is an event that is more similar. It was more regional than local and it did affect the infrastructure within that reason. And people that were unprepared panicked. There was looting, rioting and a whole host of unspeakable atrocities that people committed on each other.

You're focused on traffic lights. That is one small part of a larger equation. My point is a loss of infrastructure on a wide spread basis. This is why officials in the government are concerned. What happened in India affected 100 million people and it wasn't a peaceful walk in the park. And that did not have a long lasting duration.

The point isn't to have a million rounds of ammo and live in a bunker. The point is to have some food, water, medical supplies etc on hand so that you can sit out a 3 day event. Or a week long event. Or a month long event until the infrastructure can be restored to normalcy. Is there the concern of a longer lasting event? Yes. That was one of the reasons for the Nat Geo docudrama. Input from a variety of sources was utilized to project the possible outcomes of just a 10 day event. Were they spot on? I'd say they were conservative in their assessment. Most people in our modern society have lost their self-reliant ability in favor of keeping up with the Kardasians or DWTS. Do they know how to process clean drinking water? Ask your friends if water stopped coming out of the tap how they'd disinfect the water of waterborne pathogens. And where would they get the water to begin with. What is their plan for thermoregulating core body temperature.

In most any emergency situation the biggest killers, beyond immediate blunt force trauma, would be hypo/hyperthermia and dehydration. So a little fore knowledge and preparation to prevent or mitigate those things are only prudent.

 

[drop bear]

Tez, those are traumatic events to be sure, but they are localized and do not affect the infrastructure in a way that I'm talking about. Katrina is an event that is more similar. It was more regional than local and it did affect the infrastructure within that reason. And people that were unprepared panicked. There was looting, rioting and a whole host of unspeakable atrocities that people committed on each other.

You're focused on traffic lights. That is one small part of a larger equation. My point is a loss of infrastructure on a wide spread basis. This is why officials in the government are concerned. What happened in India affected 100 million people and it wasn't a peaceful walk in the park. And that did not have a long lasting duration.

The point isn't to have a million rounds of ammo and live in a bunker. The point is to have some food, water, medical supplies etc on hand so that you can sit out a 3 day event. Or a week long event. Or a month long event until the infrastructure can be restored to normalcy. Is there the concern of a longer lasting event? Yes. That was one of the reasons for the Nat Geo docudrama. Input from a variety of sources was utilized to project the possible outcomes of just a 10 day event. Were they spot on? I'd say they were conservative in their assessment. Most people in our modern society have lost their self-reliant ability in favor of keeping up with the Kardasians or DWTS. Do they know how to process clean drinking water? Ask your friends if water stopped coming out of the tap how they'd disinfect the water of waterborne pathogens. And where would they get the water to begin with. What is their plan for thermoregulating core body temperature.

In most any emergency situation the biggest killers, beyond immediate blunt force trauma, would be hypo/hyperthermia and dehydration. So a little fore knowledge and preparation to prevent or mitigate those things are only prudent.

Potentially a different sell might be in order.

As a side note I recently found out that I know a guy who teaches survival.

Qld TV crew chased something different Whitsunday Times

 

[drop bear]

We have all been these government pushes to prepare.

Location Harden Up - Protecting Queensland

 

[Transk53]

We have all been these government pushes to prepare.

Location Harden Up - Protecting Queensland

Very good initiative there. Still looks like a few are taking things for granted, or just don't care.

 

[drop bear]

Very good initiative there. Still looks like a few are taking things for granted, or just don't care.

Yeah always happens.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, those are traumatic events to be sure, but they are localized and do not affect the infrastructure in a way that I'm talking about. Katrina is an event that is more similar. It was more regional than local and it did affect the infrastructure within that reason. And people that were unprepared panicked. There was looting, rioting and a whole host of unspeakable atrocities that people committed on each other.

You're focused on traffic lights. That is one small part of a larger equation. My point is a loss of infrastructure on a wide spread basis. This is why officials in the government are concerned. What happened in India affected 100 million people and it wasn't a peaceful walk in the park. And that did not have a long lasting duration.

The point isn't to have a million rounds of ammo and live in a bunker. The point is to have some food, water, medical supplies etc on hand so that you can sit out a 3 day event. Or a week long event. Or a month long event until the infrastructure can be restored to normalcy. Is there the concern of a longer lasting event? Yes. That was one of the reasons for the Nat Geo docudrama. Input from a variety of sources was utilized to project the possible outcomes of just a 10 day event. Were they spot on? I'd say they were conservative in their assessment. Most people in our modern society have lost their self-reliant ability in favor of keeping up with the Kardasians or DWTS. Do they know how to process clean drinking water? Ask your friends if water stopped coming out of the tap how they'd disinfect the water of waterborne pathogens. And where would they get the water to begin with. What is their plan for thermoregulating core body temperature.

In most any emergency situation the biggest killers, beyond immediate blunt force trauma, would be hypo/hyperthermia and dehydration. So a little fore knowledge and preparation to prevent or mitigate those things are only prudent.

Really? The whole centre of a major British city is wiped out by a 3,3000lb bomb and that's 'just' localised?

If I asked my friends about 'processing' clean water most know exactly how to do, in fact I can tell you thousands of people do, and yes we know where to get water from, we don't all have central heating you , we actually do know how to keep warm and keep cool for that matter. Perhaps you know people who can't look after themselves but I know a great many, in fact I know an entire generation who did just that during the Blitz or perhaps that was too localised for you?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Really? The whole centre of a major British city is wiped out by a 3,3000lb bomb and that's 'just' localised?

Tez, I'm quite familiar with what happened in G.B. I've been to G.B. and I'm in fact half British myself. My comments weren't meant to minimize the event. But the infrastructure of the nation was still intact albeit at a vastly reduced capacity.

And I'm glad you're friends are prepared and knowledgeable. I'm afraid I can't say that for the bulk of Americans. The stats I've seen are that less than 10% of Americans a properly prepared for an emergency situation. That's a pretty sad statistic. Hurricane Sandy is a prime example. Folks had a full weeks notice that the storm was coming and was a bad one. A lot of folks were still caught flat-footed. I remember the news reports about people scalping one box of kitchen matches for $10.

One cannot prepare for everything, and there will always be unanticipated circumstances. Prepare as best as one can is prudent advice.

This has been a popular thread since last year on many forums, it is being redone on this new board:

What is a BOB GHB or EDC What goes in one And why the heck would I want one anyway

 

[drop bear]

I am sort of kind of living out of a bob at the moment for work.

Slept in a bivy bag last night.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, I'm quite familiar with what happened in G.B. I've been to G.B. and I'm in fact half British myself. My comments weren't meant to minimize the event. But the infrastructure of the nation was still intact albeit at a vastly reduced capacity.

And I'm glad you're friends are prepared and knowledgeable. I'm afraid I can't say that for the bulk of Americans. The stats I've seen are that less than 10% of Americans a properly prepared for an emergency situation. That's a pretty sad statistic. Hurricane Sandy is a prime example. Folks had a full weeks notice that the storm was coming and was a bad one. A lot of folks were still caught flat-footed. I remember the news reports about people scalping one box of kitchen matches for $10.

One cannot prepare for everything, and there will always be unanticipated circumstances. Prepare as best as one can is prudent advice.

This has been a popular thread since last year on many forums, it is being redone on this new board:

What is a BOB GHB or EDC What goes in one And why the heck would I want one anyway

I think the problem you have is that when you say people were caught flat footed you assume people have enough money to be able to move out of the area when a storm warning is called, that people have the resources to be able to stock up for an emergency when in fact they find it hard to stock up for a week. It is always going to be the relatively wealthy that are going to be prepared for these problems, the poorer people are always going to be the ones who suffer in any crisis situation. In the recent earthquake in Nepal it was the poor who suffered most as it was in India, Haiti etc etc. All this 'prepper' stuff is for the well off who can afford it not the poor who can't.
My friends and I aren't 'prepared and knowledgeable' we aren't preparing for an emergency, it's just part of our education, people like Ray Mears are very popular here, not for the survivalist stuff but for the interest in the wild world.

If you know the UK you will also know bombs are going off regularly, another went off last night in Lurgan NI.

 

[Transk53]

Really? The whole centre of a major British city is wiped out by a 3,3000lb bomb and that's 'just' localised?

If I asked my friends about 'processing' clean water most know exactly how to do, in fact I can tell you thousands of people do, and yes we know where to get water from, we don't all have central heating you , we actually do know how to keep warm and keep cool for that matter. Perhaps you know people who can't look after themselves but I know a great many, in fact I know an entire generation who did just that during the Blitz or perhaps that was too localised for you?

I doubt the modern generation would do. Perhaps those lucky enough to have parents or grand parents with a military background. I have asked several people around my area and that knowledge does not exsist. Perhaps people in you're area do get that kind of information readily being in a rural area, but in a city a different mindset exsists. As someone in Brighton where to source water, they will likely say the local shop. Also in the modern generation who knows about the "Blitz" Not even I do and I had family that died in it. Sorry, but where is the correlation to a modern day disaster?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I think the problem you have is that when you say people were caught flat footed you assume people have enough money to be able to move out of the area when a storm warning is called, that people have the resources to be able to stock up for an emergency when in fact they find it hard to stock up for a week. It is always going to be the relatively wealthy that are going to be prepared for these problems, the poorer people are always going to be the ones who suffer in any crisis situation. In the recent earthquake in Nepal it was the poor who suffered most as it was in India, Haiti etc etc. All this 'prepper' stuff is for the well off who can afford it not the poor who can't.
My friends and I aren't 'prepared and knowledgeable' we aren't preparing for an emergency, it's just part of our education, people like Ray Mears are very popular here, not for the survivalist stuff but for the interest in the wild world.

If you know the UK you will also know bombs are going off regularly, another went off last night in Lurgan NI.

With respect, I have to disagree in regards to the wealthy vs. poor. Rather it is prepared vs. unprepared. And to go a step further, it is the self reliant vs. the dependent. Here is an example of how a person could 'prep' for around $5 a week (post #2):

Your advice to someone new to emergency preparedness and or self reliance

It doesn't take money, it takes awareness and commitment. It takes a reality check and a calm, rational assessment of what problems one may face and how to prevent or mitigate the effects of those problems. For example, someone in Florida should realize that a hurricane or tropical storm is a realistic possibility. Someone in California should realize an earthquake or wildfire is a realistic possibility. So extra preparation is prudent, and doesn't have to be expensive. As the list in that persons post indicates, for the price of a Big Mac and small fry, once a week, you can stock up for a rainy day.

If that rainy day never comes...you win. If it does come you just reduced a load of stress you would be under otherwise.

 

[Tez3]

I doubt the modern generation would do. Perhaps those lucky enough to have parents or grand parents with a military background. I have asked several people around my area and that knowledge does not exsist. Perhaps people in you're area do get that kind of information readily being in a rural area, but in a city a different mindset exsists. As someone in Brighton where to source water, they will likely say the local shop. Also in the modern generation who knows about the "Blitz" Not even I do and I had family that died in it. Sorry, but where is the correlation to a modern day disaster?

There is a lot of government and academic research done into how people behave in a disaster and it's not how many imagine. You can ask all sorts of questions about finding water etc of people when everything is normal but in a disaster situation people do actually use their common sense and work things out, it's called survival instinct. People don't think when things are all going well about how they will get on when things go pear shaped but human nature makes people ingenious, you know the phrase 'necessity is the mother of invention' all this doom and gloom is rubbish frankly. The 'modern' generation is far more inventive and could manage far better than you'd imagine. As for the Blitz, people then didn't have years of training, they lived in cities, they were modern people of the time who were used to all the comforts of cities and they managed as will any generation. I get really tired of people slagging off the 'modern' generation as if they were somehow less able than any other generation, well they aren't and they will manage perfectly well in a disaster.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/emergency_response/common_misconceptions.pdf

The myths of looters etc after Katrina How people really behave during disasters - Boing Boing

How people really behave in a disaster Johann Hari The myth of the panicking disaster victim - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent

 

[Tez3]

It doesn't take money,

There speaks a man who can afford more than a weeks grocery shopping at a time. What about people and there's a great many over here who have to get their food from a food bank and can't afford a 'Big Mac and fries'? No, I'm sorry, people who live hand to mouth are already doing the 'survival thing' telling them to stock up is adding insult to injury. They are too busy trying to survive a day at a time to also worry about what a potential disaster could do.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have read all the posts on being prepared but in truth if a major disaster hits you and your home is gone and most or all of the community you live in has been destroyed whatever you had stored for an emergency is also gone. You had better know some rudimentary emergency medicine, know how to build a shelter, and possibly how to make a weapon. Hunting and fishing might be a way to survive if your in an area that makes such things possible but if your in a large city knowing the ways out of that city might be necessary.
Something I do not think has been discussed is the need to be be able to communicate in as friendly or possibly aggressive manner to those you meet. Being able to make friends and reestablish a community to defend and forage together might also be needed.
All the supplies in the world is not good if the whole area is no longer there.
As for looting, I'll be truthful I would loot food if that was the only way to put food on the table for my family but looting for the sake of looting is wrong

 

[Tez3]

Something I do not think has been discussed is the need to be be able to communicate in as friendly or possibly aggressive manner to those you meet. Being able to make friends and reestablish a community to defend and forage together might also be needed.

In the links I posted one of the points made was that when the lights go out people become actually more 'social' and work together rather than against each other. There is far more 'community spirit' than there is actual aggression, perhaps the fact that aggression and fighting make for more exciting films and tv series has made people assume that in any disaster situation was will break out rather than what really happens that people work together to rebuild etc, doesn't make very good drama.
Again in the links I posted the only looting that did actually happen after Katrina was by those who were actually starving rather than the widespread rape, murder ( and cannibalism!) and looting that was supposedly happening, again the truth doesn't sell newspapers or television time.
People have got it into their minds thanks to the media that come a disaster there will be civil war and every man jack for themselves when studies into disasters show that it not what happens ( only in films lol) people even city people manage, to be honest fi the human race couldn't adapt and overcome we'd have been extinct a very long time ago.

 

[Transk53]

There is a lot of government and academic research done into how people behave in a disaster and it's not how many imagine. You can ask all sorts of questions about finding water etc of people when everything is normal but in a disaster situation people do actually use their common sense and work things out, it's called survival instinct. People don't think when things are all going well about how they will get on when things go pear shaped but human nature makes people ingenious, you know the phrase 'necessity is the mother of invention' all this doom and gloom is rubbish frankly. The 'modern' generation is far more inventive and could manage far better than you'd imagine. As for the Blitz, people then didn't have years of training, they lived in cities, they were modern people of the time who were used to all the comforts of cities and they managed as will any generation. I get really tired of people slagging off the 'modern' generation as if they were somehow less able than any other generation, well they aren't and they will manage perfectly well in a disaster.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/emergency_response/common_misconceptions.pdf

The myths of looters etc after Katrina How people really behave during disasters - Boing Boing

How people really behave in a disaster Johann Hari The myth of the panicking disaster victim - Johann Hari - Commentators - The Independent

I would imagine that people are aware of what to London and Coventry etc. Don't who is slagging of the modern generation, but a reliance on todays technology will dilute any thought until necessary. Then people will have to adapt, which many probably will. Trick is whether they can overcome the shock quickly enough. Perhaps the pdf you linked is actually representative coming from a Government survey. Would make a change. I will give it a read.

 

[Transk53]

I have read all the posts on being prepared but in truth if a major disaster hits you and your home is gone and most or all of the community you live in has been destroyed whatever you had stored for an emergency is also gone. You had better know some rudimentary emergency medicine, know how to build a shelter, and possibly how to make a weapon. Hunting and fishing might be a way to survive if your in an area that makes such things possible but if your in a large city knowing the ways out of that city might be necessary.
Something I do not think has been discussed is the need to be be able to communicate in as friendly or possibly aggressive manner to those you meet. Being able to make friends and reestablish a community to defend and forage together might also be needed.
All the supplies in the world is not good if the whole area is no longer there.
As for looting, I'll be truthful I would loot food if that was the only way to put food on the table for my family but looting for the sake of looting is wrong

It would be wrong, but human nature is what it is. The wolf and the sheep kind of thing. In an absolute disaster I would hope that most would stick together and act alturisctly. But as has happened with the dreadful events around the world, most could not cope with things gone to ****. Thankfully the rest of the world rallied and helped. I dread to think what would happen with a global event. No one will be prepared for that IMHO.

 

[Tez3]

It would be wrong, but human nature is what it is. The wolf and the sheep kind of thing. In an absolute disaster I would hope that most would stick together and act alturisctly. But as has happened with the dreadful events around the world, most could not cope with things gone to ****. Thankfully the rest of the world rallied and helped. I dread to think what would happen with a global event. No one will be prepared for that IMHO.[/Q

What disaster were you thinking of where people didn't behave and cope well? In Nepal people did, in Japan, New Zealand, here they do, it's been documented that people do behave well when there is a disaster. Katrina is a example, there were horror stories coming out that simply weren't true. people choose to believe the worse and even in face of documented evidence some persist in thinking the world will go to hell in a disaster yet it hasn't yet.