What to do after you have defended yourself

[pdg]

Another historical post post

CCTV. In the UK it's likely that if you are attacked on the street you won't have to call the police, they will be coming anyway. Many businesses and householders also have their own, just about all pubs and clubs do and before anyone starts on about 'rights' bear in mind that people really want cctv and many people put up their own.

Is that really true in your part of the country?

Around here it's certainly not...

While there is cctv in the local city, toss a coin as to what it's looking at. For most of '16/'17 it was actually turned off completely. After being turned back on late last summer, the police and control room operators still didn't have access in December (last I heard, don't know if they've been let in yet).

So, to assume someone is watching and that "the police will be on the way" isn't something I can support.

As to quality of images...

Householder's own cctv:



City cctv:



Brilliant...


Then of course there's the fact that even if you call they might not show up either.

An acquaintance was awoken in the night by strange noises so he looked out the window to see his work van open with someone unloading it, he called the police and was told there wasn't anyone available right now so he should leave them to it. He decided against that and informed the operator he'd deal with it himself.

3 days later a uniformed officer arrived, introduced himself as "rapid response" and offered a crime reference number...


Metropolitan areas may well be supported by effective constabularies, but the other 95% of the land mass might as well be on it's own.

 

[Tez3]

Is that really true in your part of the country?

Very much so, I actually live in a security area.

I think you need to look up Project Servator.
You also need to understand that the government has cut police numbers so it's hardly the police forces fault if they cannot respond as quick as you'd like.
We have lost 68,000 officers since 2010.

 

[pdg]

Very much so, I actually live in a security area.

I think you need to look up Project Servator.
You also need to understand that the government has cut police numbers so it's hardly the police forces fault if they cannot respond as quick as you'd like.
We have lost 68,000 officers since 2010.

Project Servator sounds all nice and fluffy and inclusive in central London, or on a train... Again, metropolitan area.

Around here, not so much. Our county constabulary makes no mention of it on it's website (at least, not that I can see from a brief scan, and if it was high priority surely they'd publicise it so the intended 'helpers' knew?)

And response as quick as I'd like? 3 days to attend a potentially violent incident?

Please be aware I'm not blaming the individual officers, their workload vs. resources is such that they can't do everything - due to 'streamlining' (read budget cuts) we don't have a 24hr manned station within 30 miles (Americans take note, because of the roads around here that 30 miles can easily take an hour, more if you don't have lights and sirens).

Hardly a week goes by where there's not an appeal for witnesses to a violent incident in one of the local towns (or in the city) - if the cctv was all encompassing there would be no need for hugely unreliable eyewitness accounts. And that's reported incidents, usually where the victim is hospitalised, many more happen that it's felt it's just not worth reporting.

Personally, if I was put in the situation where I injured someone who initiated an attack on me I'd be unlikely to report it...

 

[Buka]

Very much so, I actually live in a security area.

I think you need to look up Project Servator.
You also need to understand that the government has cut police numbers so it's hardly the police forces fault if they cannot respond as quick as you'd like.
We have lost 68,000 officers since 2010.

68,000 since 2010. Wow. That's just nuts. What a shame tight budgets are.

 

[Tez3]

Project Servator sounds all nice and fluffy and inclusive in central London, or on a train... Again, metropolitan area.

Works in North Yorks and we have very rural areas ie the Moors and the Dales. Of course you have to do a bit as a civvie and so many people want looking after, not willing to contribute to their own safety.

we don't have a 24hr manned station within 30 miles (

You are lucky then we have to travel more than 30 miles.

Living in a rural area is always going to be different to living in a city or town, we get on with it. One reason we can is that we look out for each other and there is less crime anyway. When houses are miles apart you aren't going to get the same police coverage, if you expected it then you are sadly mistaken, it's something you have to take into account when you chose to live in the country. I doubt American police get to remote homes any faster than ours do, no police can unless you expect a helicopter but luckily for us North Yorks police have a couple so guess what, they get here damn when needed quick, we also have air ambulance.

Personally, if I was put in the situation where I injured someone who initiated an attack on me I'd be unlikely to report it...

You wouldn't have to the person you injured would do it for you and you would be the bad guy. It won't help your case with the police when you try to explain why you didn't report it.

 

[pdg]

I grew up in the countryside, I'm used to it in a way - but it's changed. 25 years ago we had two full time stations within 10 miles and you'd see the local bobby (who almost everyone knew by name) at least a few times a week doing his rounds of the villages. Unfortunately that job doesn't really exist any more and our local community support officer you only see once a month at the parish council meetings so he/she can tell us what crime has been reported...

With watching out for each other, that's not really changed so any community involvement initiative isn't really a new idea - it's just renaming what's been going on forever (but it'd be nice to think that the backup could be the same).

The only visible policing we really see now are the mod plods - and while they're very likely to intervene if they see something in progress, it's not within their remit to respond to civilian callouts.

 

[Tez3]

The only visible policing we really see now are the mod plods - and while they're very likely to intervene if they see something in progress, it's not within their remit to respond to civilian callouts.

Actually the MOD Plods as you so nicely call them can be called out to deal with civvie callouts if needed. I know I went on many a one wherever I've been posted. They are trained exactly the same as Home Office Police, have the same powers and can be tasked to do and go anywhere they are needed from Afghanistan to the Balkans to the street of London.

 

[jobo]

Actually the MOD Plods as you so nicely call them can be called out to deal with civvie callouts if needed. I know I went on many a one wherever I've been posted. They are trained exactly the same as Home Office Police, have the same powers and can be tasked to do and go anywhere they are needed from Afghanistan to the Balkans to the street of London.

well no not the,same powers. They can certainly be sent to deal with unrest under the,control of a,chief constable. But they are not constables, therefore any if the many powers that are given to constables including,stop and,search, arrest are not given to mod police unless you are,part of the forces or on mod property.

 

[Tez3]

well no not the,same powers. They can certainly be sent to deal with unrest under the,control of a,chief constable. But they are not constables, therefore any if the many powers that are given to constables including,stop and,search, arrest are not given to mod police unless you are,part of the forces or on mod property.

Wind your neck in son, you really don't know what you are talking about but then you have argued on here before about things with people whose job is it is haven't you.
The Anti Terrorist and Crime Act 2001 gave the MDP far reaching powers that can be used not just in an MoD setting but anywhere. MDP police have always had the power to use anywhere when providing mutual aid to any police force or when witnessing any suspected criminal act or to save life and minimise personal injury


MDP officers may now exercise police powers where a local police force requests the assistance of MDP officers. This is most likely to be in support of defence related tasks; major civil emergencies; or the provision of specialist policing capabilities, such as marine policing. Where such assistance is provided, Ministry of Defence Police officers will be under the operational control of the local Chief Constable from the requesting force, and will have the same police powers as officers of that force.

Second, an MDP officer may exercise police powers to deal with emergency situations where he/she is in uniform, or in possession of documentary evidence of membership of the MDP, and has “reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence is about to be committed, is being committed or has been committed, or “…reasonably believes that action is necessary to save life or prevent or minimise injury.” that means basically they can act in any situation they may be needed whether it's on Crown property or civilian and involving civilians.

Third, a senior MDP officer may authorise MDP officers to carry out stop and search operations under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (which allows these powers to be exercised at random, without the need for reasonable suspicion). This applies to the MDP on the street of London. and other places Ministry of Defence Police to patrol Kent streets alongside armed officers
The primary objective of the extended jurisdiction is to assist in the prevention of terrorism and to provide an effective police response to terrorist incidents or suspected acts of terrorism.

Stick to what you actually know and really, don't tell people how they do their job. Of course we know you hate all police and the military so I assume you are just getting your jibes in.

Ministry of Police Act 1987
"Jurisdiction.
(1)In any place in the United Kingdom to which subsection (2) below for the time being applies, members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall have the powers and privileges of constables."

3C)Members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall have in any police area the same powers and privileges as constables of the police force for that police area,[F11in Scotland the same powers and privileges as constables of the Police Service of Scotland,] and in Northern Ireland the same powers and privileges as constables of the Police Service of Northern Ireland,—

(a)in relation to persons whom they suspect on reasonable grounds of having committed, being in the course of committing or being about to commit an offence; or

(b)if they believe on reasonable grounds that they need those powers and privileges in order to save life or to prevent or minimise personal injury.

Due to the MDP also suffering cuts in manning it's less likely that MDP officers can or are able to assist Home Office police than ever before so don't hold your breath waiting for things to get better under this government.

The Terrorism Acts have changed a lot of police powers, for all Forces to enable a consolidated approach to situations. This is why MDP officers at eon the streets of London doing Stop and Search, the fact they are the only force that is always armed helps in many situations. yes I an aware of the protests and the Court of Human Rights ruling on S&S. This was sorted by Terrorism Act 2000 (Remedial) Order 2011.

MOD Police help guard the nation - DCI : Defence Contacts International

Yes the MDP primary function is to protect Crown property but they will with other Home Office police when asked and this gives them exactly the same powers as their Home Office colleagues, every police officer also has the responsibility of preventing crime and taking action when needed regardless of where as actually all citizens who can carry out citizen's arrests. Most people however prefer to either turn a blind eye to criminal acts or think it's nothing to do with them and slag off the police on message boards.

 

[jobo]

Wind your neck in son, you really don't know what you are talking about but then you have argued on here before about things with people whose job is it is haven't you.
The Anti Terrorist and Crime Act 2001 gave the MDP far reaching powers that can be used not just in an MoD setting but anywhere. MDP police have always had the power to use anywhere when providing mutual aid to any police force or when witnessing any suspected criminal act or to save life and minimise personal injury


MDP officers may now exercise police powers where a local police force requests the assistance of MDP officers. This is most likely to be in support of defence related tasks; major civil emergencies; or the provision of specialist policing capabilities, such as marine policing. Where such assistance is provided, Ministry of Defence Police officers will be under the operational control of the local Chief Constable from the requesting force, and will have the same police powers as officers of that force.

Second, an MDP officer may exercise police powers to deal with emergency situations where he/she is in uniform, or in possession of documentary evidence of membership of the MDP, and has “reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence is about to be committed, is being committed or has been committed, or “…reasonably believes that action is necessary to save life or prevent or minimise injury.” that means basically they can act in any situation they may be needed whether it's on Crown property or civilian and involving civilians.

Third, a senior MDP officer may authorise MDP officers to carry out stop and search operations under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (which allows these powers to be exercised at random, without the need for reasonable suspicion). This applies to the MDP on the street of London. and other places Ministry of Defence Police to patrol Kent streets alongside armed officers
The primary objective of the extended jurisdiction is to assist in the prevention of terrorism and to provide an effective police response to terrorist incidents or suspected acts of terrorism.

Stick to what you actually know and really, don't tell people how they do their job. Of course we know you hate all police and the military so I assume you are just getting your jibes in.

Ministry of Police Act 1987
"Jurisdiction.
(1)In any place in the United Kingdom to which subsection (2) below for the time being applies, members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall have the powers and privileges of constables."

3C)Members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall have in any police area the same powers and privileges as constables of the police force for that police area,[F11in Scotland the same powers and privileges as constables of the Police Service of Scotland,] and in Northern Ireland the same powers and privileges as constables of the Police Service of Northern Ireland,—

(a)in relation to persons whom they suspect on reasonable grounds of having committed, being in the course of committing or being about to commit an offence; or

(b)if they believe on reasonable grounds that they need those powers and privileges in order to save life or to prevent or minimise personal injury.

Due to the MDP also suffering cuts in manning it's less likely that MDP officers can or are able to assist Home Office police than ever before so don't hold your breath waiting for things to get better under this government.

The Terrorism Acts have changed a lot of police powers, for all Forces to enable a consolidated approach to situations. This is why MDP officers at eon the streets of London doing Stop and Search, the fact they are the only force that is always armed helps in many situations. yes I an aware of the protests and the Court of Human Rights ruling on S&S. This was sorted by Terrorism Act 2000 (Remedial) Order 2011.

MOD Police help guard the nation - DCI : Defence Contacts International

Yes the MDP primary function is to protect Crown property but they will with other Home Office police when asked and this gives them exactly the same powers as their Home Office colleagues, every police officer also has the responsibility of preventing crime and taking action when needed regardless of where as actually all citizens who can carry out citizen's arrests. Most people however prefer to either turn a blind eye to criminal acts or think it's nothing to do with them and slag off the police on message boards.

edit?

 

[Tez3]

edit?

Do one.

 

[jobo]

Wind your neck in son, you really don't know what you are talking about but then you have argued on here before about things with people whose job is it is haven't you.
The Anti Terrorist and Crime Act 2001 gave the MDP far reaching powers that can be used not just in an MoD setting but anywhere. MDP police have always had the power to use anywhere when providing mutual aid to any police force or when witnessing any suspected criminal act or to save life and minimise personal injury


MDP officers may now exercise police powers where a local police force requests the assistance of MDP officers. This is most likely to be in support of defence related tasks; major civil emergencies; or the provision of specialist policing capabilities, such as marine policing. Where such assistance is provided, Ministry of Defence Police officers will be under the operational control of the local Chief Constable from the requesting force, and will have the same police powers as officers of that force.

Second, an MDP officer may exercise police powers to deal with emergency situations where he/she is in uniform, or in possession of documentary evidence of membership of the MDP, and has “reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence is about to be committed, is being committed or has been committed, or “…reasonably believes that action is necessary to save life or prevent or minimise injury.” that means basically they can act in any situation they may be needed whether it's on Crown property or civilian and involving civilians.

Third, a senior MDP officer may authorise MDP officers to carry out stop and search operations under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (which allows these powers to be exercised at random, without the need for reasonable suspicion). This applies to the MDP on the street of London. and other places Ministry of Defence Police to patrol Kent streets alongside armed officers
The primary objective of the extended jurisdiction is to assist in the prevention of terrorism and to provide an effective police response to terrorist incidents or suspected acts of terrorism.

Stick to what you actually know and really, don't tell people how they do their job. Of course we know you hate all police and the military so I assume you are just getting your jibes in.

Ministry of Police Act 1987
"Jurisdiction.
(1)In any place in the United Kingdom to which subsection (2) below for the time being applies, members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall have the powers and privileges of constables."

3C)Members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall have in any police area the same powers and privileges as constables of the police force for that police area,[F11in Scotland the same powers and privileges as constables of the Police Service of Scotland,] and in Northern Ireland the same powers and privileges as constables of the Police Service of Northern Ireland,—

(a)in relation to persons whom they suspect on reasonable grounds of having committed, being in the course of committing or being about to commit an offence; or

(b)if they believe on reasonable grounds that they need those powers and privileges in order to save life or to prevent or minimise personal injury.

Due to the MDP also suffering cuts in manning it's less likely that MDP officers can or are able to assist Home Office police than ever before so don't hold your breath waiting for things to get better under this government.

The Terrorism Acts have changed a lot of police powers, for all Forces to enable a consolidated approach to situations. This is why MDP officers at eon the streets of London doing Stop and Search, the fact they are the only force that is always armed helps in many situations. yes I an aware of the protests and the Court of Human Rights ruling on S&S. This was sorted by Terrorism Act 2000 (Remedial) Order 2011.

MOD Police help guard the nation - DCI : Defence Contacts International

Yes the MDP primary function is to protect Crown property but they will with other Home Office police when asked and this gives them exactly the same powers as their Home Office colleagues, every police officer also has the responsibility of preventing crime and taking action when needed regardless of where as actually all citizens who can carry out citizen's arrests. Most people however prefer to either turn a blind eye to criminal acts or think it's nothing to do with them and slag off the police on message boards.

you've edited all the qualification out of that link

the ministry if police,act ONLY applies to crown propery and operations. A,fact you must know as you have,cynical remove those references to completely change it meaning in what you have posted

 

[Tez3]

you've edited all the qualification out of that link

the ministry if police,act ONLY applies to crown propery and operations. A,fact you must know as you have,cynical remove those references to completely change it meaning in what you have posted

Really? How long did you serve in the MDP? Longer than I do you think?
A very poor troll I might add. Now I'm done.

 

[jobo]

Really? How long did you serve in the MDP? Longer than I do you think?
A very poor troll I might add. Now I'm done.

well your the one who has been caught cheating, what would the police think of that i wonder

 

[Tez3]

well your the one who has been caught cheating, what would the police think of that i wonder

 

[Juany118]

As to cameras, they are becoming very prevalent in the US as well in some unique ways. Yes you have the County DA's office giving towns money for the systems, the small city I work in has 13 CCTV cameras now that are viewed from our station. However we also did an interesting thing. The grant ran out of money but we had a grant program where the City would pay for residents in specific areas to have home CCTV cameras with a DVR.

The deal was though, if they accepted the system, the PD could access the video upon request. You then have the citizens who get their own systems. They are usually quite helpful.

 

[lklawson]

you really don't know what you are talking about

A very poor troll I might add.

Seems to be his hobbies.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

As to cameras, they are becoming very prevalent in the US as well in some unique ways. Yes you have the County DA's office giving towns money for the systems, the small city I work in has 13 CCTV cameras now that are viewed from our station. However we also did an interesting thing. The grant ran out of money but we had a grant program where the City would pay for residents in specific areas to have home CCTV cameras with a DVR.

The deal was though, if they accepted the system, the PD could access the video upon request. You then have the citizens who get their own systems. They are usually quite helpful.

One of our local bank branches has a lobby that stays open 24hrs so people can use the ATM. There is CCTV installed to cover the whole lobby area, something many couples didn't realise when they popped in after the pubs closed. Bear in mind this is on the Garrison so lots of fit young people eager to pass a few pleasant minutes in each others company popped into the lobby . The bank always opened later on Monday mornings for staff training..... ie watching the weekends CCTV tapes.

 

[Marie_Flowers88]

Don't worry, I'm not in a situation where I need a lawyer, nor am I in a situation where I've needed to use my martial arts for self defense. However, let's say that was the case. Someone attacked me, and as a result of defending myself their arm is broken.

Now, I don't want them to go to the ER and say they were mugged by some karate expert who broke their arm and tried to steal their wallet. However, I also don't want to call the police and say "yeah, I got in a fight and broke this dude's arm."

Personally, I don't have a lawyer. I haven't really needed one. So what do I do in this situation?

I think you should really call the police and tell them what happened. That you did it for self-defence. At least they can arrest the guy and put it in prison so it won't attack other people.

 

[pdg]

While there is cctv in the local city, toss a coin as to what it's looking at. For most of '16/'17 it was actually turned off completely. After being turned back on late last summer, the police and control room operators still didn't have access in December (last I heard, don't know if they've been let in yet).

So, to assume someone is watching and that "the police will be on the way" isn't something I can support.

Following certain events last week, even the media in Moscow is asking questions about the cctv system in a fairly local city...