What to do after you have defended yourself

[lklawson]

Did you know that the Magna cart was kept in Fort Knox during the second World War?

Crown Jewels too from what I heard.

Actually both the Crown Jewels and the Magna Carta are still there. We sent you back forgeries. Still not sure how we fooled you guys with typing paper and plastic "jewels" in brass, but whateves.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

Crown Jewels too from what I heard.

Actually both the Crown Jewels and the Magna Carta are still there. We sent you back forgeries. Still not sure how we fooled you guys with typing paper and plastic "jewels" in brass, but whateves.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

The Crown Jewels were kept at Windsor Castle during the war so sorry you will have to make do with your replicas. The real ones are quite spectacular though. Where Were the Crown Jewels Hidden During World War II?

 

[Dirty Dog]

The Crown Jewels were kept at Windsor Castle during the war so sorry you will have to make do with your replicas. The real ones are quite spectacular though. Where Were the Crown Jewels Hidden During World War II?

I've always thought they were more gaudy than spectacular, but that's a matter of taste. I feel the same way about a lot of Gothic architecture, like the Parliament building.

 

[oftheherd1]

Thank you for the compliments! I rather think I was probably in the RAF when you were at school or perhaps I'd left by then.

This is a very good site for British history, some quite amazing things on there.Funding for local authority archives for taking in public records along with this one The British Library

Did you know that the Magna cart was kept in Fort Knox during the second World War?

The meadow where history was made

In the RAF when I was at school? Oh how I might wish. But actually I wouldn't. As with most everybody, there were some things I regret, but there have been so many good things in my life I wouldn't want to give up, I will keep myself and my experiences as they are.

The link for the Magna Carta doesn't work for me, at least at work. I will try when I get home. I think very few people know what is at Ft Knox, other than the people who work there. Maybe not all of them for all I know. I know when I was there, they released a crown, to Hungary as I recall. Nobody had any idea it was there. Do you know how they got it there? By ship would have seemed very dangerous unless before a time when US ships were targets for U-boats.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Folks, there's a fair bit of off-topic posting going on (to which I'm guilty of contributing). Perhaps we could return to the original topic, and if there's interest in a thread on protection of artifacts during WWII we can start another thread?

 

[Tez3]

Folks, there's a fair bit of off-topic posting going on (to which I'm guilty of contributing). Perhaps we could return to the original topic, and if there's interest in a thread on protection of artifacts during WWII we can start another thread?

Home Guard. Ultimate self defence hence relevance.

 

[Ondrejmatej]

Don't worry, I'm not in a situation where I need a lawyer, nor am I in a situation where I've needed to use my martial arts for self defense. However, let's say that was the case. Someone attacked me, and as a result of defending myself their arm is broken.

Now, I don't want them to go to the ER and say they were mugged by some karate expert who broke their arm and tried to steal their wallet. However, I also don't want to call the police and say "yeah, I got in a fight and broke this dude's arm."

Personally, I don't have a lawyer. I haven't really needed one. So what do I do in this situation?

No matter how prepared you think you might be to defend yourself, a life or death situation is like nothing you have ever experienced.Every self defense situation is different. It is impossible to predict how local authorities will react to your particular situation

 

[lklawson]

It is impossible to predict how local authorities will react to your particular situation

That's not true at all. Past behavior, along with public statements, are pretty good predictors.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jobo]

Actually, here at least, they are two very different things. Being arrested actually means little, being charged however does.

being,arrested can have life,changing implications for the innocent, not least of which is you cant move to America

 

[Tez3]

being,arrested can have life,changing implications for the innocent, not least of which is you cant move to America

If you have been arrested but not charged with anything then you apply for a deletion of records (and deletion of biometric information) and you can enter the US.

 

[jobo]

If you have been arrested but not charged with anything then you apply for a deletion of records (and deletion of biometric information) and you can enter the US.

you can't delete your arrest record,r can you ? They will show up on enhanced cbr checks for ever

 

[Tez3]

you can't delete your arrest record,r can you ? They will show up on enhanced cbr checks for ever

If you aren't charged with any offence and are de arrested then you can have your record deleted so providing you have no other record. it's deleted so won't show up at all.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/430095/Record_Deletion_Process.pdf

It also depends on how you were arrested, often if you are arrested then de arrested not long after without any bail or further investigations it's not recorded in anything other than the officers notebook ( that is a legal document). An arrest that is recorded in the police station when some one is locked up for a night or number of ours then released without charge is only recorded as an arrest, if it goes no further and as you are de arrested it won't show up on CRB checks.

 

[jobo]

If you aren't charged with any offence and are de arrested then you can have your record deleted so providing you have no other record. it's deleted so won't show up at all.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/430095/Record_Deletion_Process.pdf

It also depends on how you were arrested, often if you are arrested then de arrested not long after without any bail or further investigations it's not recorded in anything other than the officers notebook ( that is a legal document). An arrest that is recorded in the police station when some one is locked up for a night or number of ours then released without charge is only recorded as an arrest, if it goes no further and as you are de arrested it won't show up on CRB checks.

that's no where near as clear cut as your,suggesting, it only applies where is has been shown there wasn't a crime ir that you couldn't have committed it. If its not charged because the police lack the evidence to get a conviction, rather than having established it could not have been you, then the record cant be erased.

so for arguments sake, you are arrested for a crime, let's say criminal damage, there is no dispute a crime was committed there is a,hole in a widow and your arrested because you are a) in the vicinity and b) fir the description of the suspect. You can not have your arrest records erased just because the police cant actually prove beyond reasonable doubt it was you. Even where you can have it erased, its at the discretion of the police, they can just refuse to do it

 

[Buka]

No matter how prepared you think you might be to defend yourself, a life or death situation is like nothing you have ever experienced.Every self defense situation is different. It is impossible to predict how local authorities will react to your particular situation

Ondrejmatej, welcome to MT, bro.

 

[jobo]

No matter how prepared you think you might be to defend yourself, a life or death situation is like nothing you have ever experienced.Every self defense situation is different. It is impossible to predict how local authorities will react to your particular situation

you can go some way to predicting it, certainly in England, if you leave your attacker with serious injuries, you will be arrested and aggressively interviewed on suspicion of a crime. That's with out any confusion as to who was the,aggressor and what witness did or didn't see.

 

[Tez3]

that's no where near as clear cut as your,suggesting, it only applies where is has been shown there wasn't a crime ir that you couldn't have committed it. If its not charged because the police lack the evidence to get a conviction, rather than having established it could not have been you, then the record cant be erased.

so for arguments sake, you are arrested for a crime, let's say criminal damage, there is no dispute a crime was committed there is a,hole in a widow and your arrested because you are a) in the vicinity and b) fir the description of the suspect. You can not have your arrest records erased just because the police cant actually prove beyond reasonable doubt it was you. Even where you can have it erased, its at the discretion of the police, they can just refuse to do it

You don't understand the powers of arrest. Your a and b aren't the only reasons someone may be arrested. And yes you can have the record deleted if you haven't been charged/taken to court and don't have a previous record.
The police arrest for many reasons, they can as easily de arrest and more often than not they aren't made into official records. De arrest and released without charge are two different things.

In your hypothetical case, if you have been arrested for either reason, the arrest ( if you are arrested, you may just be asked to go to the station to help with enquiries) may not go as far as being noted other than in the officer's notebook, if ten minutes after you've been arrested the call comes over the radio that they have found the real suspect, you will be de arrested with no record of the arrest. The police don't have to prove beyond reasonable doubt, they don't actually have to 'prove' anything. They are investigators with any evidence being put into a file for the CPS so they can decide whether it's a watertight case, borderline or there's no evidence. the police can charge someone but it will the CPS who decide on whether it goes to court.

Other reasons to arrest.

(4)But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1), (2) or (3) is exercisable only if the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (5) it is necessary to arrest the person in question.

(5)The reasons are—

(a)to enable the name of the person in question to be ascertained (in the case where the constable does not know, and cannot readily ascertain, the person's name, or has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name given by the person as his name is his real name);

(b)correspondingly as regards the person's address;

(c)to prevent the person in question—

(i)causing physical injury to himself or any other person;

(ii)suffering physical injury;

(iii)causing loss of or damage to property;

(iv)committing an offence against public decency (subject to subsection (6)); or

(v)causing an unlawful obstruction of the highway;

(d)to protect a child or other vulnerable person from the person in question;

(e)to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question;

(f)to prevent any prosecution for the offence from being hindered by the disappearance of the person in question.

(6)Subsection (5)(c)(iv) applies only where members of the public going about their normal business cannot reasonably be expected to avoid the person in question.]

consultation with the Director of Public Prosecutions ( that person doesn't actually do this, it's the CPS in their name)

Consultation with the Director of Public Prosecutions
F2dealt with under section 37(7)(a)] above, an officer involved in the investigation of the offence shall, as soon as is practicable, send to the Director of Public Prosecutions such information as may be specified in guidance under section 37A above.

(2)The Director of Public Prosecutions shall decide whether there is sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence.

(3)If he decides that there is sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence, he shall decide—

(a)whether or not the person should be charged and, if so, the offence with which he should be charged, and

(b)whether or not the person should be given a caution and, if so, the offence in respect of which he should be given a caution.

F3shall give notice] of his decision to an officer involved in the investigation of the offence.

F4(4A)Notice under subsection (4) above shall be in writing, but in the case of a person kept in police detention under section 37(7)(a) above it may be given orally in the first instance and confirmed in writing subsequently.]

(5)If his decision is—

(a)that there is not sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence, or

(b)that there is sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence but that the person should not be charged with an offence or given a caution in respect of an offence,

a custody officer shall give the person notice in writing that he is not to be prosecuted.

F5(5A)Subsection (5) does not prevent the prosecution of the person for an offence if new evidence comes to light after the notice was given.]

(6)If the decision of the Director of Public Prosecutions is that the person should be charged with an offence, or given a caution in respect of an offence, the person shall be charged or cautioned accordingly.

F6 (whether because of section 17 of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 or for any other reason) ] , he shall instead be charged with the offence.

(8)For the purposes of this section, a person is to be charged with an offence either—

F7(a)when he is in police detention at a police station (whether because he has returned to answer bail, because he is detained under section 37(7)(a) above or for some other reason), or]

(b)in accordance with section 29 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003.

 

[jobo]

You don't understand the powers of arrest. Your a and b aren't the only reasons someone may be arrested. And yes you can have the record deleted if you haven't been charged/taken to court and don't have a previous record.
The police arrest for many reasons, they can as easily de arrest and more often than not they aren't made into official records. De arrest and released without charge are two different things.

In your hypothetical case, if you have been arrested for either reason, the arrest ( if you are arrested, you may just be asked to go to the station to help with enquiries) may not go as far as being noted other than in the officer's notebook, if ten minutes after you've been arrested the call comes over the radio that they have found the real suspect, you will be de arrested with no record of the arrest. The police don't have to prove beyond reasonable doubt, they don't actually have to 'prove' anything. They are investigators with any evidence being put into a file for the CPS so they can decide whether it's a watertight case, borderline or there's no evidence. the police can charge someone but it will the CPS who decide on whether it goes to court.

Other reasons to arrest.

(4)But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1), (2) or (3) is exercisable only if the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (5) it is necessary to arrest the person in question.

(5)The reasons are—

(a)to enable the name of the person in question to be ascertained (in the case where the constable does not know, and cannot readily ascertain, the person's name, or has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name given by the person as his name is his real name);

(b)correspondingly as regards the person's address;

(c)to prevent the person in question—

(i)causing physical injury to himself or any other person;

(ii)suffering physical injury;

(iii)causing loss of or damage to property;

(iv)committing an offence against public decency (subject to subsection (6)); or

(v)causing an unlawful obstruction of the highway;

(d)to protect a child or other vulnerable person from the person in question;

(e)to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question;

(f)to prevent any prosecution for the offence from being hindered by the disappearance of the person in question.

(6)Subsection (5)(c)(iv) applies only where members of the public going about their normal business cannot reasonably be expected to avoid the person in question.]

consultation with the Director of Public Prosecutions ( that person doesn't actually do this, it's the CPS in their name)

Consultation with the Director of Public Prosecutions
F2dealt with under section 37(7)(a)] above, an officer involved in the investigation of the offence shall, as soon as is practicable, send to the Director of Public Prosecutions such information as may be specified in guidance under section 37A above.

(2)The Director of Public Prosecutions shall decide whether there is sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence.

(3)If he decides that there is sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence, he shall decide—

(a)whether or not the person should be charged and, if so, the offence with which he should be charged, and

(b)whether or not the person should be given a caution and, if so, the offence in respect of which he should be given a caution.

F3shall give notice] of his decision to an officer involved in the investigation of the offence.

F4(4A)Notice under subsection (4) above shall be in writing, but in the case of a person kept in police detention under section 37(7)(a) above it may be given orally in the first instance and confirmed in writing subsequently.]

(5)If his decision is—

(a)that there is not sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence, or

(b)that there is sufficient evidence to charge the person with an offence but that the person should not be charged with an offence or given a caution in respect of an offence,

a custody officer shall give the person notice in writing that he is not to be prosecuted.

F5(5A)Subsection (5) does not prevent the prosecution of the person for an offence if new evidence comes to light after the notice was given.]

(6)If the decision of the Director of Public Prosecutions is that the person should be charged with an offence, or given a caution in respect of an offence, the person shall be charged or cautioned accordingly.

F6 (whether because of section 17 of the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 or for any other reason) ] , he shall instead be charged with the offence.

(8)For the purposes of this section, a person is to be charged with an offence either—

F7(a)when he is in police detention at a police station (whether because he has returned to answer bail, because he is detained under section 37(7)(a) above or for some other reason), or]

(b)in accordance with section 29 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003.

that isn't what you link said, it said ONLY in defined circumstances and ONLY if the CC agrees, there no power to have all non conviction arrests erased

i know A& B ARNT THE ONLY reasons to arrest , but they are together a reason for arrest, and make a situation that would not be eligible to be erased

 

[Tez3]

that isn't what you link said, it said ONLY in defined circumstances and ONLY if the CC agrees, there no power to have all non conviction arrests erased

i know A& B ARNT THE ONLY reasons to arrest , but they are together a reason for arrest, and make a situation that would not be eligible to be erased

All the deletions I know of went through no problems but of course if you think as you do that the police are out to get you then nothing I say will make the slightest bit of difference. I suppose it depends how much you wanted to visit the US really, guess you are quite disappointed but you do have to be innocent to have your record if you have one, most don't, deleted. The US isn't alone in not wanting crims visiting.

 

[jobo]

All the deletions I know of went through no problems but of course if you think as you do that the police are out to get you then nothing I say will make the slightest bit of difference. I suppose it depends how much you wanted to visit the US really, guess you are quite disappointed but you do have to be innocent to have your record if you have one, most don't, deleted. The US isn't alone in not wanting crims visiting.

well perhaps only the people who were eligible applied, read your own link and you will see its not a blanket entitlement.

visiting no problem, you just lie, getting a,work permit is a bit more difficult

 

[iluvmycam]

OP...unless you shoot or knife someone bad...I move on out and not stand around to suck my thumb.