What the hell is Enlightenment!?

[Steve]

@hoshin1600 , you seem to have a pretty concrete idea of what you mean when you use the term. Can you share that? I'm very interested in getting this conversation grounded, and from my lay perspective, you seem to have some direct experience. It seems to be a little out there so far... a little too many phrases likely to be used on greeting cards.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I agree. Digging deep within yourself helps you understand yourself and a bit about others, but gathering as many true facts about existence allows one to see the tapestry or to use an old phrase, see the forest for the trees and the trees within the forest.

I suspect you missed my point.

 

[Flying Crane]

That is a big part of what enlightenment means to me. I know that everything around me contributes to existence.
We are all the same and different because reality exists between the binary; 1 (success/perfection) and 0 (failure/folly). Once I 'got it', I was able to understand the dynamic interplay within a system and between multiple systems. It is incredibly difficult to explain other than through long, detailed explanations of the system(s).

In my opinion, enlightenment isn't just knowing things, tho knowing these kinds of things may help.

Perhaps it is a deep internalizing of this kind of knowledge which then guides ones state of being and mindset.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

A Zen student goes to a temple and asks how long it will take him to gain enlightenment if he joins the temple.

"Ten years," says the Zen master.

"Well, how about if I really work and double my effort?"

"Twenty years."

 

[TieXiongJi]

A Zen student goes to a temple and asks how long it will take him to gain enlightenment if he joins the temple.

"Ten years," says the Zen master.

"Well, how about if I really work and double my effort?"

"Twenty years."

It is possible they are talking past each other. The student doesn't know what he means when he asks and the teacher can't explain the whole idea in 1 sentence.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It is possible they are talking past each other. The student doesn't know what he means when he asks and the teacher can't explain the whole idea in 1 sentence.

Oy.

 

[Flying Crane]

It is possible they are talking past each other. The student doesn't know what he means when he asks and the teacher can't explain the whole idea in 1 sentence.

Some things in life need to happen organically, and cannot be forced. If you force it, then it takes longer. Forcing it disrupts the natural process.

I am reminded of the book Zen and the art of Archery, wherein a German fellow practiced Kyudo in Japan. He was struggling with the natural and relaxed method he needed to develop to properly release the arrow.

His sensei, in an attempt to figure out how to better convey the instructions to his student, read some psychology books of the like that this German fellow was a student of. After doing so, he told his student that he is of the opinion that he (the student) may not be able to grasp the true kyudo technique, now that he (the sensei) has a better understanding of how the student's mind works.

Gotta be honest with you, I see a parallel here.

 

[Steve]

Some things in life need to happen organically, and cannot be forced. If you force it, then it takes longer. Forcing it disrupts the natural process.

I am reminded of the book Zen and the art of Archery, wherein a German fellow practiced Kyudo in Japan. He was struggling with the natural and relaxed method he needed to develop to properly release the arrow.

His sensei, in an attempt to figure out how to better convey the instructions to his student, read some psychology books of the like that this German fellow was a student of. After doing so, he told his student that he is of the opinion that he (the student) may not be able to grasp the true kyudo technique, now that he (the sensei) has a better understanding of how the student's mind works.

Gotta be honest with you, I see a parallel here.

Can you reach enlightenment in one lifetime? I was under the impression that enlightenment is, in part at least, a function of reincarnation.

 

[Jenna]

I have been hunting for this elusive ENLIGHTENMENT since I heard the word when I was ~10 years old.
I have studied philosophy (100's...). I have studied martial arts (at least 10 conflicting theories). I have studied science and engineering (focused on electrical, but never forgot that all disciplines stem from the same fundamental concepts).
I have come up with this so far.

Everything is 1, everything is trying to become a better 1, and everything will avoid 0 as that is the end.

Many truths can be discovered through explaining this concept in detail, but I would love some external input from the martial arts community.
I have met many people who claim to have figured it out, but only a few who understand what I am saying with the above and the more elaborate conversation.

Do you know what it is -like can you specify- about which you seek enlightenment. Your concept of it seem perhaps a little nebulous or vague Wishes x

 

[Flying Crane]

Can you reach enlightenment in one lifetime? I was under the impression that enlightenment is, in part at least, a function of reincarnation.

I do not know.

 

[TieXiongJi]

Do you know what it is -like can you specify- about which you seek enlightenment. Your concept of it seem perhaps a little nebulous or vague Wishes x

Well, the title of the thread is "What is Enlightenment?"
After years of studying the world around me, I came to the conclusion:
Everything is 1, everything is trying to become a better 1, and everything will avoid 0 as that is the end.

What is your answer to the question?

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, the title of the thread is "What is Enlightenment?"
After years of studying the world around me, I came to the conclusion:
Everything is 1, everything is trying to become a better 1, and everything will avoid 0 as that is the end.

What is your answer to the question?

Yeah, this business of trying to quantify everything as either 1or 0 is probably indicative of your difficulties. The world doesn't really work that way.

 

[TieXiongJi]

Can you reach enlightenment in one lifetime? I was under the impression that enlightenment is, in part at least, a function of reincarnation.

If it is based on reincarnation of the soul/mind, then I have to say, based on the current model of existence, there is no hope.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Can you reach enlightenment in one lifetime? I was under the impression that enlightenment is, in part at least, a function of reincarnation.

That is in one philosophy. I believe that full enlightenment (enlightenment in all areas of life) may be extraordinarily rare, if not unprecedented. However, a significant number (though a distinct minority) of people do find enlightenment in some area of their lives. This becomes an area where things just "work". They put forth effort in exactly the ways it is needed, without having to put a lot of effort into knowing what those areas are. It's not accidental, they just "get" that area of life so profoundly that the next step seems clear. They live on principles in that area of life, and cannot be disturbed there, even when things go badly, because even then they see what is next. If the person takes that enlightenment and uses it to see other areas of life, their enlightenment expands.

That's a poor description of my view, and I'm not sure it's possible to describe accurately.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If it is based on reincarnation of the soul/mind, then I have to say, based on the current model of existence, there is no hope.

What do you mean by "model of existence"?

 

[TieXiongJi]

Yeah, this business of trying to quantify everything as either 1or 0 is probably indicative of your difficulties. The world doesn't really work that way.

You are correct. That is why I said existence is between the 0 and 1 because everything is in constant flux, will never quite reach 1 and will always end at 0. Everything is within this flux and we are all trying to reach perfection before we die.

 

[Steve]

Well, the title of the thread is "What is Enlightenment?"
After years of studying the world around me, I came to the conclusion:
Everything is 1, everything is trying to become a better 1, and everything will avoid 0 as that is the end.

What is your answer to the question?

Does pursuing 1 presume there is no 2? Or 3?

 

[Steve]

Yeah, this business of trying to quantify everything as either 1or 0 is probably indicative of your difficulties. The world doesn't really work that way.

There is a reason binary logic is taught first. It's the simplest and most accessible.

 

[Flying Crane]

You are correct. That is why I said existence is between the 0 and 1 because everything is in constant flux, will never quite reach 1 and will always end at 0. Everything is within this flux and we are all trying to reach perfection before we die.

Dump this whole concept. Throw it away. You are going down a dead end with this.

 

[Flying Crane]

There is a reason binary logic is taught first. It's the simplest and most accessible.

It may have a place in writing computer code and whatnot, but not much elsewhere