What are some differences between Karate and Taekwondo?

[Prototype]

But that's an entirely subjective complaint you have there. From my equally subjective perspective, I think Chang Hon varies the most by far from Japanese karate in things like blocking chambers and sine wave execution compared to KKW TKD or Chung Do Kwan TKD. When I decided to recommit towards growing in TKD after years in karate, I actually ruled out ITF-type instructors precisely because the sine wave was too different for me to accept.

Unless you come up with an accepted scoring rubric based on research models to evaluate the degree of departure Chang Hon TKD has from Shotokan karate, you're just being opinionated. Which is fine and all, but it's about as relevant as me not liking the ITF uniforms aesthetically or the flavor of Rocky Road ice cream for that matter.

Sine Wave was implemented about 25 years into Taekwon-Do. It was not part of the original system promoted. I don't think it's subjective that Chang Hon-TKD lifted it's handtechniques from Karate and tweaked the coloured Katas from Shotokan. Pretty damning evidence.

 

[dancingalone]

Sine Wave was implemented about 25 years into Taekwon-Do. It was not part of the original system promoted. I don't think it's subjective that Chang Hon-TKD lifted it's handtechniques from Karate and tweaked the coloured Katas from Shotokan. Pretty damning evidence.

You missed my point, but it's not worth discussing further. Good luck to you.

 

[Tez3]

Prototype, what style of martial arts do you practice and how long have you been training?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sine Wave was implemented about 25 years into Taekwon-Do. It was not part of the original system promoted. I don't think it's subjective that Chang Hon-TKD lifted it's handtechniques from Karate and tweaked the coloured Katas from Shotokan. Pretty damning evidence.

Chalk up another error for Prototype. The term "Sine Wave" makes it's appearance in the 1980 Encyclopedia. That's 36 years ago. Further, the knee flexing which is what causes the "Sine Wave" mention appears in the 1972 book. In the 1970's we referred to the Up Down motion as "Spring Style".

 

[Earl Weiss]

I didn't criticize him for it, I stated that it was an ironic fact/paradox. You extrapolate that to mean something negative. That being said, had this been in the United States in modern times, Choi Hong Hi could have been sued his pants off by various Shotokan Karate organisations (in principle). Let's not pretend otherwise.

If you imply that he would be sued for copying or plagiarizing, that has no more merit than saying the same orgs would be sued by orgs doing Shorin and Shorei.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I am saying that if he wanted to pay tribute to Japanese representation, he couldn't have done a better job. That was not however the stated intent. The intent was the exact opposite - to differentiate.

Except that he credits not to the Japanese system, but the Okinawan predecessors..

 

[Prototype]

Accuser: Gishin Funakoshi. Defendenant: Choi Hong Hi. Accusation: Plagiarism.

Now that's a trial I would pay to see. I would expect Choi to rant and rave about the Japanese stealing Taekkyon kicking (lol) and Funakoshi to ask for his patterns back (...)

I wonder who wins that one.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Accuser: Gishin Funakoshi. Defendenant: Choi Hong Hi. Accusation: Plagiarism. Now that's a trial I would pay to see. I would expect Choi to rant and rave about the Japanese stealing Taekkyon kicking (lol) and Funakoshi to ask for his patterns back (...)

I wonder who wins that one.

Umm.... maybe you don't realize this, but Master Weiss, the man you're attempting to argue the legal merits of this hypothetical case with, is actually a lawyer. You know... someone who gets paid to know about this stuff.

And of course, given the effectiveness of the industry in stopping international piracy (you know, the well known duping of DVDs in China, for example) TODAY, I really doubt your hypothetical international plagiarism suite would have gotten very far. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so I will absolutely concede to whatever information Master Weiss provides on this subject.

 

[Tez3]

Umm.... maybe you don't realize this, but Master Weiss, the man you're attempting to argue the legal merits of this hypothetical case with, is actually a lawyer. You know... someone who gets paid to know about this stuff.

And of course, given the effectiveness of the industry in stopping international piracy (you know, the well known duping of DVDs in China, for example) TODAY, I really doubt your hypothetical international plagiarism suite would have gotten very far. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, so I will absolutely concede to whatever information Master Weiss provides on this subject.

I'm neither TKD nor a lawyer but I also with go with what Master Weiss says on subjects he knows about.

Personally I think Prototype is what we call in Yorkshire sh*t stirring.

 

[Prototype]

Umm.... maybe you don't realize this, but Master Weiss, the man you're attempting to argue the legal merits of this hypothetical case with, is actually a lawyer. You know... someone who gets paid to know about this stuff.

Doesn't mean that he is a criminal defence lawyer. There are different types of lawyers you know...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Doesn't mean that he is a criminal defence lawyer. There are different types of lawyers you know...

I do know. And I know that any lawyer, regardless of focus, is going to know more about the law than a layman. Just as it's safe to assume that I know more about obstetrics than a layman, even though it's not my specialty.

 

[Tames D]

Legal cases are often times lost due to incompetent attorneys. I'm not saying Mr. Weiss falls into this category and no disrespect intended. My point is... because someone has passed the bar and practices law, does not automatically mean they have the right answers. The same holds true for any profession.

 

[Tez3]

Doesn't mean that he is a criminal defence lawyer. There are different types of lawyers you know...

A criminal defence lawyer wouldn't deal with a plagiarism case as this is a civil matter. Such things as plagiarism etc are covered while taking your law degree and then again while training to be a lawyer. A law graduate spends time training to be an actual lawyer or solicitor before specialising, a law degree doesn't make you a lawyer.
I would say it's a safe bet that Mr. Weiss would know a fair bit about something that also involves his martial arts studies.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Accuser: Gishin Funakoshi. Defendenant: Choi Hong Hi. Accusation: Plagiarism.

Now that's a trial I would pay to see. I would expect Choi to rant and rave about the Japanese stealing Taekkyon kicking (lol) and Funakoshi to ask for his patterns back (...)

I wonder who wins that one.

Well since they are both dead I would guess no one.

 

[Tez3]

Well since they are both dead i would guess no one.

Perhaps we could have a séance....where they both turned round and said 'STFU and train' And we all said 'amen' to that.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Doesn't mean that he is a criminal defence lawyer. There are different types of lawyers you know...

A criminal defence lawyer wouldn't deal with a plagiarism case as this is a civil matter.

Hmm, seems Protoype messed up again. Another Bad conclusion based on an erroneous premise.

 

[Prototype]

Hmm, seems Protoype messed up again. Another Bad conclusion based on an erroneous premise.

I didn't mess up earlier. 1955+25=1980

 

[Earl Weiss]

Accuser: Gishin Funakoshi. Defendenant: Choi Hong Hi. Accusation: Plagiarism.

Now that's a trial I would pay to see. I would expect Choi to rant and rave about the Japanese stealing Taekkyon kicking (lol) and Funakoshi to ask for his patterns back (...)

I wonder who wins that one.

Well then we can continue to argue about how many angels fit on the head of a a pin. Would the Okinawans join in claimin Funakoshi copied there stuff, and of course then the chines come in claiming the same of the Okinawans.

The History of the Shotokan Kata – Part One.
Why is this conspicuously absent from your complaints?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I didn't mess up earlier. 1955+25=1980

I stand corrected- to an extent . Misread your post as "25 Years Ago" as opposed to "25 Years Into" which is of course the first publication of the term. As indicated, long before that the knee flexion existed and was referred to in the USA informally as "Spring Style".

 

[Prototype]

I stand corrected- to an extent . Misread your post as "25 Years Ago" as opposed to "25 Years Into" which is of course the first publication of the term. As indicated, long before that the knee flexion existed and was referred to in the USA informally as "Spring Style".

So? Still not part of the original system promoted as you see can see here :