I wasn't there. I don't know what you were or weren't told -- or what was or wasn't made available to you as far as information goes. My guess, based on what you've said, is that other people did find out, and that he just may have figured that everyone was aware of the process. Maybe it was spelled out early in your training, and you just didn't notice or remember. Don't know. Don't really care. I am honestly tired of the whole "my instructor didn't tell me I could test so I didn't make my life goal and it's cast a huge dark shadow on my life ever since" line. Dude -- we all have goals we didn't reach when we wanted to. We moved on. We either did it later or found a new direction to go.
What a black belt really is
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I wasn't there. I don't know what you were or weren't told -- or what was or wasn't made available to you as far as information goes. My guess, based on what you've said, is that other people did find out, and that he just may have figured that everyone was aware of the process. Maybe it was spelled out early in your training, and you just didn't notice or remember. Don't know. Don't really care. I am honestly tired of the whole "my instructor didn't tell me I could test so I didn't make my life goal and it's cast a huge dark shadow on my life ever since" line. Dude -- we all have goals we didn't reach when we wanted to. We moved on. We either did it later or found a new direction to go.
Did you read this?
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...-a-black-belt-really-is?p=1617264#post1617264
Perhaps you're not understanding, perhaps you don't want to understand...I really don't know. Let's try again. In your opinion, you don't know why, but you think it's because the student isn't asking? So you feel that the teacher will always keep the student in the dark, because the student isn't asking? So I'm asking YOU, what the inst. possibly has to gain by doing that??????
You seem to think that teachers don't tell their students what they need to work on. Perhaps its a matter of you or the student, not listening to what the teacher is saying. Again, if you read the post I made in that link I posted, you'll see (hopefully) what I'm saying. To be a bit more clear for you...the teacher may not sit you down and explain piece by piece, what you need to work on, but instead, give comments, criticism, etc, during class. If you're not listening, well.....
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At my dojo you sign up for belt tests, including the black belt test, at your own discretion. Whether you pass or not is a different matter but you're not held back because you're too obsessed. Being overly obsessed is not going to cause the sensei to not pass you.
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- #84
My sensei does give comments, criticism, and pointers to students during class based on their technique. He will tell you specifically if you're doing something wrong in your technique and how to fix it. I don't think an instructor has anything to gain by keeping a student in the dark about their technique.
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- #85
My dojo is not particularly large, there is certainly not as many as a hundred students in a single class. The evening classes are usually the biggest classes and they might get about twenty students, the smaller classes earlier during the day might have six or seven students. My sensei does give pointers about how to make your technique better but he expects you to sign up for belt tests at your own discretion. If you don't sign up he will probably just figure you're not interested in promoting.
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- #86
Delaying a student sometimes makes sense, just to make sure they've got down everything really well. However, there comes a time when a student should test. Six months is not that long to delay a student. Sometimes a student might be delayed more. As it is though I think that a student who is a high level brown belt should take perhaps a year at the most to become a black belt.
Perhaps at your school. In my school and in my system, 2 or more years is typical. Some people never reach the appropriate level of understanding, knowledge, and skill to be recommended to be a black belt.
Good! So, going on that, if teachers are doing that, and if the students are paying close attention, then there should be nobody left in the dark.
That will vary from school to school. A time limit is really moot. When it happens, it happens.
So, going on this, you could sign up for a test each month or however long it is between each rank promotion test? What is the average time is takes someone to reach BB in your school?
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- #92
Well thats because lots of people quit before they make black belt. From my observations, most people who take up the martial arts will quit before making brown belt. There are some students who never go beyond white belt, they take a few lessons and then decide its not their thing. Obviously you never will reach the standards for black belt if you quit before getting there.
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- #93
As its been pointed out on this thread, a white belt should not be too obsessed with getting a black belt. If they are than they're getting ahead of themselves. It would be like the student whose teacher tells him the more he is obsessed with mastery of the art the longer it would take. I agree with that, about a white belt not being obsessed with the black belt. A white belt student could have it as an eventual goal but they should mostly just focus on getting the next belt, taking it one belt at a time. So, the way I see it a white belt or a green belt should not be so fixated on the black belt but I see no reason why a brown belt shouldn't be concentrating on getting a black belt. Usually brown belt is the rank just before black belt, so if the black belt is one rank away than the student should be focusing on it. They're at that point in time and at that level in their martial art that they should be working on getting the black belt and that includes finding out and knowing what they need to do to get it. It would be nice to hear other people's positions on this.
dancingalone
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I'd rather the students focus on the material rather than the belt itself, though certainly I realize the two are linked and that it is not a binary, either-or situation.
In my experience, I've found the more serious students immediately recognize that the belt is an artifact gained along the journey, something incidental rather than consequential in of itself. People have said this a million times before: your knowledge and skill will always show on the floor no matter what belt you wear. IMO, that's absolutely true. I've seen lots of black belts that I thought could use some more practice. The number of green belts and brown belts who I thought were exceptional number considerably fewer. Guess which group I respect more? In other words, think about achieving excellence first - the rank will follow suit.
Cirdan
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A black helt is someone who learned to shut up and train, rather than whine about how unfair life is.
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- #96
That's exactly what I did. I would shut up and train and I trained really hard and showed up as much as I could at class. That's why it took me much longer than it should've to get from brown belt to black belt, because I had shut up instead of asking sensei if I was supposed to wait until he told me I could test or sign up myself.
dancingalone
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I feel for you. Truly. We can say that belts don't matter, etc, but in your case, probably it did and profoundly so according to you.
But your experience is very atypical in my opinion. That's really not the way most schools operate with having students schedule their own BB test, and I've been in the martial arts a long, long time. Even odder is that the instructor never approached you about ranking up.
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- #98
You don't entirely schedule your own BB test. Tests are held every three or four months and a student signs up to test for their next belt up, whatever it may be, if they feel they're up to it. My dojo is not a super traditionally run place, the more traditional dojos usually are the ones that have the sensei tell the student when they will test. As for the instructor not approaching me, he expects you to either figure some stuff out yourself, or if you're not sure about something he expects you to ask him about it not the other way around.
dancingalone
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OK. I understand that's the way he operates.
What about higher level material though? Don't you have some advanced curriculum more or less tied into gaining a shodan rank and beyond? If so, didn't you ever want to learn it? Why the reticence about asking?
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- #100
Most of what rank promotion is based on is kata. Promotion also includes single techniques, combinations, and sparring but about 80 percent of it is kata based. By the time you test for first degree black belt the only thing you're tested on that you haven't been tested on before for lower belts are some extra katas. There is a sheet that lists the requirements for each belt up to and including the first degree black belt but it doesn't list anything beyond first degree. To find out what you need to know for second degree and beyond, you would probably have to talk to the sensei. As for my reticence about asking, that was because I didn't think to ask, I just assumed you had to be told you could take the black belt test as it was a myth among some of the students, and because some people say its disrespectful to ask sensei such stuff, which Im trying to point out is a bit silly.
And yes, belts rank isn't entirely accurate in showing a student's skill level and ability in a martial art, just like grades aren't entirely accurate at showing how well a student learns subject material. Its possible for a student to get an A in a class and for there to be another student in the class who gets a B and yet knows more about the material than the A student. However, just like grades, belt rank is an indicator of how a sensei judges a student's progress and getting a black belt from a sensei means that you've met that sensei's standards for the rank which is a good thing if you've got a good sensei who has good high standards and who doesn't just hand out black belts, or for that matter, mail them.
And yes, belts rank isn't entirely accurate in showing a student's skill level and ability in a martial art, just like grades aren't entirely accurate at showing how well a student learns subject material. Its possible for a student to get an A in a class and for there to be another student in the class who gets a B and yet knows more about the material than the A student. However, just like grades, belt rank is an indicator of how a sensei judges a student's progress and getting a black belt from a sensei means that you've met that sensei's standards for the rank which is a good thing if you've got a good sensei who has good high standards and who doesn't just hand out black belts, or for that matter, mail them.
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