What a black belt really is

[Rumy73]

You're still not answering the question. Let me ask again. Why would someone leave a student in the dark? I mean really...what possible thing could be gained from doing that? Stringing the student along, prolonging the BB test, so the teacher keeps getting money? If thats the case, then thats a mcdojo, and I'd run away..fast!!!

As for this 'myth', well, I'm sorry, but I've been training for over 20 yrs in the arts, and I've never seen a dojo like you describe, other than a mcdojo. Each and every dojo that I've trained in, the teacher told the student when they were ready, not the other way around. My teacher is very traditional, very old school, and is Japanese. I wouldn't dream of asking when I could test, for ANY rank, let alone BB, and I doubt any other student there would either. It's not done out of fear, its done out of respect!

Anyways, I'm done for now with this thread, at least until I can get a straigh answer from the question I asked you.

Food for thought: I know some teachers are who are the hyper opposite of McDojo and set standards too high, rarely testing students. These are very few and far between, but they are out there.

The problem with MA is almost every place in the U.S. wants the student to sign a contract. As a student, you really do not know what you are committing to until a few months into it.

 

[dancingalone]

In my dojo, my sensei did keep me in the dark, although it was perhaps my fault. There was this myth in my dojo that to take the black belt test you had to wait until the sensei told you that you could take it. I should've asked my sensei if it was true, that you had to wait for him to tell you that you could test for the black belt. As I said, it was a myth so it wasn't true but it was a very prevalent myth. If I had asked my sensei about it he would've dispelled the myth.

I haven't read the entire thread, but was this one of those giant dojo with hundred and hundreds of students? This is not meant to be a personal attack, but it seems a bit bizarre to me that the teacher would never have approached you about ranking up if he had ANY type of relationship with you. I've trained in a variety of arts that have rank levels to promote through, and the sensei/sahbum/shifu has never not told me what expectations he had for me in the near future. "Sharpen up that kata." "Here's the requirements for making sankkyu." "You're almost there, maybe first duan next year." These are all things some of my teachers have said to me and I would really only count myself as being very close to one of them.

 

[lklawson]

Black belt status means different things to different ppl. Lay folks probably are in awe of it more than they should be. It is even further distorted by the fact that little Johnny has one too, and he is eight.

Lay folks rarely have an undistorted view of whatever it is that they are "lay folks" to. Martial arts are no different.

Black belts are a marketing tool and cash cow. While on one hand they represent having mastered a set of curriculum and tests, they also are monetized, in a very expensive way.

Unless you're training at the YMCA, in a "Backyard Dojo," or under an instructor which doesn't use it as a marketing tool. You know, black belts are marketing tools except when they're not.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

From there, it's important to realise just why an academic study is quite different to a physical, over-arching area. Academics are about memorisation and recall, as well as application of formula, martial arts are about development of physical skills. The neuro-physiology is different, the learning methodology is different, the application and testing methodology is different, and so on...

That depends on the area and time period. In Medieval Europe, many of the same mnemonic techniques were used regardless of the area of instruction, either physical skills or intellectual skills. Further, their view of how the universe "works" dominated, influenced, and dictated all aspects of their education, whether intellectual, philosophical, or physical skills. In fact, to a certain degree, they were all considered to be linked, entwined inseparably with each other.

You can see an example of this in the front page of certain fight manuals, Fiore's Flos Duellatorum is an example. Each of the animals shown, the things they're doing, and their specific positions on the page, have a pseudo-philosophical/scientific and mnemonic purpose. They're symbolism intended to both create a frame of reference for learning and as part of a unifying "understanding" of the world.



Another example is how Mathematics, Mysticism/Philosophy/Hermetic Tradition, and Martial Arts are rolled up in the Destreza, the Spanish "Mystic Circle" most commonly recognized today in Thibault's "Mysterious Circle."

View attachment $Gerard_Thibault_Mysterious_Circle.jpg

I can't comment much more on the specifics than that, because it's outside of the scope of my usual studies. However, to say that the learning methodologies of martial arts is different from those of academics reflects a modern 19th Century Western view of the world.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jks9199]

Food for thought: I know some teachers are who are the hyper opposite of McDojo and set standards too high, rarely testing students. These are very few and far between, but they are out there.

The problem with MA is almost every place in the U.S. wants the student to sign a contract. As a student, you really do not know what you are committing to until a few months into it.

There are actually quite a lot of schools without contracts; they're just less commonly storefront operations and perhaps less visible or require a little more looking to find...

That said -- who are you (or me, or whoever) to say a teacher's standards are too strict. As an instructor in my art, it's my responsibility and duty to ensure that it's passed along faithfully and consistently in the manner it was entrusted to me. It's my job to hold the standards as I was held to them -- or the art is lessened and cheapened. Other instructors in my style have some grounds to look at my standards -- but even then, I have to answer to MY instructor, and to the chief instructor, not them.

 

[lklawson]

You can see an example of this in the front page of certain fight manuals, Fiore's Flos Duellatorum is an example. Each of the animals shown, the things they're doing, and their specific positions on the page, have a pseudo-philosophical/scientific and mnemonic purpose. They're symbolism intended to both create a frame of reference for learning and as part of a unifying "understanding" of the world.

View attachment 18491

I can't comment much more on the specifics than that, because it's outside of the scope of my usual studies.

Sorry to quote myself but I thought that it would be more appropriate than re-editing the post.

Flos Duellatorum
The Attributes and Virtues of
a Master Fencer
By Mathieu Ravignat

Page 2
By Mathieu Ravignat
A Fourfold Ethical System
The four classical virtues are prudence, temperance, justice, and courage (sometimes
fortitude). Two of these, prudence and courage are found in dei Liberi’s treatise. Another,
fortitude, is drawn from the later seven virtues.
The origin of the fourfold system is traceable to Greek philosophy- other sources are
earlier, but the Socratic source is the most definite. Among the reporters of Socrates,
Xenophon is vague on the point; Plato in The Republic puts together a system of four
virtues adopted later, with modifications by St. Thomas. In The Laws, Bk. I, 631, Plato
recurs to his division: "Wisdom is the chief and leader: next follows temperance; and from
the union of these two with courage springs justice. These four virtues take precedence
in the class of divine goods". Aristotle, with variations of his own, describes the four
virtues that Plato had sketched; but in his Ethics he does not put them into one system.
They are treated in his general discussion, which does not aim at a complete
classification of virtues, and leaves interpreters free to give different enumerations.
The Romans, as represented by Cicero, repeated Plato and Aristotle: "Each man should
so conduct himself that fortitude appear in labours and dangers: temperance in foregoing
pleasures: prudence in the choice between good and evil: justice in giving every man his
own [in suo cuique tribuendo]" (De Fin., V, xxiii, 67; cf. De Offic., I, ii, 5). This is a
departure from the idea prominent in Platonic justice, and agrees with the Scholastic
definition.
However, it is St. Thomas Aquinas (born at Rocca Secca in the Kingdom of Naples 1225
or 1227; died at Fossa Nuova, 7 March, 1274) which is most responsible for bringing the
four Cardinal Virtues into the medieval mind. St. Thomas gave these four cardinal virtues
a common recognition and tried to give them systematic account and a logical ethical
framework. Dei Liberi in his use of the four-fold system of virtues is directly indebted to
his medieval predecessor St. Thomas Aquinas.
In a way, dei Liberi follows suit with Aquinas and creates the four cardinal virtues of
fencing. They are: Prudence, Courage, Fortitude, and Swiftness. Two of these “virtues”
are the same as the four classical cardinal ethical virtues: Prudence and Courage and
three have a moral level of meaning namely: Prudence, Courage and Fortitude.
The Use of Animals
The use of animals in a symbolic fashion to represent these virtues is well documented in
extant medieval bestiaries. A cultural weight was given to each beast, mythological,
ethical
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and at times theological. Unlike our modern minds, the medieval use of animals was not
zoological but participated more in a type of natural mythology. For example Jesus was
often depicted either as a lamb or as a pelican. The pelican was held to be an animal of
great virtue because it was (wrongly) believed that it pecked at its own breast to feed its
children with blood.
The insertion of the symbolic knowledge of the bestiary in classical education over the
centuries had left an indelible imprint on the medieval psyche, including that of dei Liberi.
This resulted in the ethical and practical application of the bestiary to his art of combat.
The image above, from the Pisani-Dossi manuscript, includes text in the dialect of Italian
known as “Friuli.” The illustration is referred to as the seven swords and depicts the figure
of a man with seven swords centered on the body surrounded with four stylized animals
or beasts. The genius of dei Liberi is revealed in this single illustration, which effectively
summarizes his entire art, both armed and unarmed, in terms that communicate the
technical, physical, mental and ethical attributes of his combat system. At first glance,
each of the sword angles depicts one of the seven possible offensive strikes, the six cuts
and the thrust, all of which can be applied to most weapons. Positioned with the angles is
the text referring to the posta, illustrating the optimal offensive strategy from that
particular position. It also cleverly describes how a posta can offer both a defensive
posture and offensive posture in the same instant. Beyond this level of interpretation, one
can infer the most effective guard positions against opposing guard positions, a thread
that surfaces numerous times in the treatise.
It is clear by the text that the technical attributes of fighting must be balanced with the
ethical attributes. Each animal figure and its relative position with respect to the figure of
the man, refers to a particular physical, mental and ethical attribute of a Master fencer.
These are the ideals of dei Liberi’s system. It must be remembered here that his art was
not intended for the common folk, but as it says in the prologue it was intended for the
highly virtuous members of the princely classes.
It is also important note that in the illustrations each of the animals is wearing a golden
collar (painted gold in the original manuscript). This colour is also used throughout the
manuscript on the garters and crowns as an identification of the Master in the illustrations
of the plays. This implies that these attributes are what make a true master swordsman,
and that these are traits that all students must strive to embody. Therefore, it is critical
that these attributes and virtues be emphasized early on in the training of every student.
Not only to create the high level of skill and capabilities of a competent fighter, but also a
shining virtue and moral quality. The illustration also suggests by the placement of the
figures around the man, that a good and honorable fighter is one who not only possesses
these attributes, but is one who is capable of measuring them in order to strike an optimal
balance.
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Proceeding clockwise from the figure of the lynx, a more detailed examination of the
animals is included below.

The Lynx - Prudentia (Prudence)
“Meio de mi’louo ceruino non uede creatura E aquello
meto sepre a sesto e mesura Prudentia.” “No other
creature is able to look so clearly as me, the lynx And
continuously by that method of the compass and
measure prudence”

The image of the lynx holding a compass (a tool of determining measure between two
points) represents one of the four key attributes of a Master fencer. It is the ability to
assess the actions of the opponent and of the self, making adjustments in response to
actions taken by the opponent and using this assessment to enhance success in combat.
The position of the lynx over the head of the figure shows its importance and its
intellectual nature. It is also a crucial attribute, because prudent judgment maintains the
critical optimal distance (the dividers and the compass) between the fencer and his
opponent. It is the result of good judgment that the fencer is capable of anticipating his
opponent’s next attack, ensuring that the fighter will be in an optimal position in order to
react to the offensive strike with speed and confidence. This can only occur as a result of
the fencer’s ability to control the engagement through prudence.
Though a critical skill in fighting, prudence must also be used in concert with the other
attributes such as speed and strength. It rules the other attributes (or crowns them) in the
sense that it determines when best to apply them in a certain way. In wrestling for
example strength is not always called for, and it is judgment or prudence which will
determine when to give in or be strong, and which of these is most strategic at a given
time.

Being able to deliver a well-placed blow without endangering oneself is also an important
consideration. Offensive strikes work when a fencer has good measure (timing and
distance) as a result of effective judgment and prudence and is then able to deliver his
blow cleanly.
Medieval literature often depicts the lynx as having the powers of premonition, and when
applied to the fencer this translates into the master fencer’s ability to read and control his
opponents actions.
Ethically, prudence is the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in
every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it ("the prudent man looks
where he is going;" "keep sane and sober for your prayers"). Prudence is "right reason in
action," writes St. Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle. It is not to be confused with
timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the
charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is
prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. The prudent man
determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this
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virtue we apply moral principles to particular cases without error and overcome doubts
about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid.
The Lion - Audatia (Courage/Audacity)
“Piu de mi lione non porta cor ardito Pero de bataia
faço a zaschaduno inuito Audatia. » “None can bring a
more daring heart than me, a lion And I challenge
anyone to battle Courage.”
The lion figures prominently in the medieval period, especially in heraldry. Courage has
long been held as one of the four cardinal virtues since classical times. The lion
represents the ability to take risks when needed and the ability to face the fear of combat.
The lion is placed at the left of the figure. It is represented as supporting a heart with its
right paw. The heart was often believed to be the measure of a man, and the centre of
his emotions, including that of fear and hope. The heart is also representative of love, the
sacred heart of Jesus being the most important medieval icon of this kind. Therefore, in
the medieval period, courage was tempered with mercy and the ethics of Christianity.
In combat, however, courage must be balanced with prudence. This balance creates the
right combination allowing the fencer to avoid over confidence, brashness and bellicosity
which may lead ultimately to failure. More subtly, it provides the impetuous to take
advantage of that moment of opportunity when a blow must be risked to defeat the
opponent. In this way it is essential to the use of proper timing.
In ethics, courage is the trait of persisting in or going after what is good or right in the
face of difficulty (danger of harm or loss, toil, or suffering). To the Christian medieval mind
courage was the ability and readiness to undergo suffering or risk danger for the sake of
doing God's will or of reaching some spiritual good.
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The Elephant - Fortitudo
(Fortitude)
“Ellefant son e uno castello hoper cargho E non
me inçenochio ni perdo uargho.” “I am the
elephant and I have a castle for a burden And
never do I kneel down nor do I loose my true
place.”

The figure of an elephant, illustrated with a tower on its back, is positioned below the
figure of the man and denotes stability and endurance. In historical representations the
elephant is rarely depicted without a tower on his back. This representation may derive
from the Indian war elephant, or even to the war elephants of the legendary Hannibal, the
conqueror of the Roman Empire.
The figure of an elephant, coupled with the text, highlights the importance of strength, the
foundation on which a fencer builds his skill and technique. This is referred to periodically
in dei Liberi’s manuscript and is particularly mentioned in the wrestling, or abrazare,
section. The application of strength comes into play in a variety of situations, such as the
strength of cuts, the leveraging of wrestling holds and throws. Prudence and judgment
should dictate the amount of strength needed in a given situation. Unbalanced with the
other Master attributes, the fencer would rely too heavily on his strength to the detriment
of his intelligence and speed. He may then be easily tricked by a smarter fencer or may
encounter someone even stronger or faster than he is, and thus be defeated.
The illustration also suggests the critical need for solid well-rooted footwork, ensuring
balance and equilibrium. It is interesting to note that dei Liberi does not privilege ground
fighting in his manuscript, and therefore it is crucially important for the fencer to have a
good sense of balance and rooted legs so that he may not be thrown to the ground. This
preference for upright fighting may be indicated by the lack of knee joints on the
illustration of the elephant.
But fortitude is also that ability to take punishment. It is that strength of mind to keep on
fighting even against seemingly insurmountable odds. It is a form of willpower backed by
a resistant and enduring body. Never kneeling down may also refer to this quality of
never giving up to another man. It is also the ability to accept pain and continue fighting.
In training, it is clearly important to develop both muscular and cardiovascular endurance
as well as toughness all aspect of fortitude.
Ethically, fortitude is the moral virtue that ensures firmness in difficulties and constancy in
the pursuit of the good. It strengthens the resolve to resist temptations and to overcome
obstacles in the moral life. The virtue of fortitude enables one to conquer fear, even fear
of
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death, and to face trials and persecutions. It even disposes one to renounce and sacrifice
his life in defence of a just cause.
The Tiger - Celeritas (Swiftness)
“Yo tigro tanto son presto a corer e uoltare Che la
sagita del cello non me po auancare.” “I am the tiger, I
am very quick to run and turn That the arrow in the sky
cannot overcome me.”
The fourth animals we consider is the figure of the tiger. The heraldic tiger was not
zoologically correct but was more of the order of a mythological beast to the medieval
Italians. It is therefore depicted here in its non-natural heraldic form. It is depicted similar
to the lion and grasping an arrow referred to as sagita in the text. Sagita is the star of
Sagittarius, the Centaur Archer. Therefore, it also implies the speed of the celestial horse.
The attribute of swiftness figures highly in the manuscript, especially in the abrazare
section, in which speed and strength are referred to as the top two of the seven important
requirements for wrestling. It is clear that speed in its physical form is of crucial
importance in fighting. Speed will often determine a successful strike and it is a truism
that it is the faster hand, which carries the sword, which usually wins the day.
But there is also a different kind of speed implied by the figure. In his plays, dei Liberi
often implies more than one kind of speed: the physical speed of the technique but also
the intellectual swiftness of the chosen counter or remedy. Mentally, swiftness is the
minds ability to assess a particular changing situation and the quickness of the minds
response to that situation. Therefore, physical swiftness is represented here as the actual
tiger, whereas the mental form is represented by the cosmic principle of Sagittarius, the
arrow, as the symbol of the quickness of human thought.
Summary: The Ideal Swordsman
It is clear in the manuscript that Liberi believes that it is the possession of the proper
combination of these four virtues which makes the "ideal swodsman:"
We are the four animals with these traits, He who
wants to battle should measure with us, And he
who has a good portion of our virtues, He will
have honour in battle, according to this art.
Therefore, the Master fencer possesses the necessary judgment and prudence to ensure
tactical supremacy, the courage to face combat and take advantage of opportunities
created by his judgment, the fortitude to keep fighting and the swiftness of body and mind
to deliver his techniques.
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The body of a master fencer must possess muscular strength and speed, nimbleness,
and endurance both muscular and cardiovascular. The mind of a master must possess a
strong willpower, be quick witted and intelligent. Ethically, a master should be prudent in
his speech and actions, courageous in his morals and principles, and intelligent in his
opinions.
With these lofty goals in mind we move onto the technical aspects of his art, always
keeping in mind the highest summit of its realization.
​

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

​

 

[Rumy73]

There are actually quite a lot of schools without contracts; they're just less commonly storefront operations and perhaps less visible or require a little more looking to find...

That said -- who are you (or me, or whoever) to say a teacher's standards are too strict. As an instructor in my art, it's my responsibility and duty to ensure that it's passed along faithfully and consistently in the manner it was entrusted to me. It's my job to hold the standards as I was held to them -- or the art is lessened and cheapened. Other instructors in my style have some grounds to look at my standards -- but even then, I have to answer to MY instructor, and to the chief instructor, not them.

Who am I to say? Well I can discern between high standards and unreasonableness. MA school leaders are not some god who cannot be questioned.

 

[lklawson]

Who am I to say? Well I can discern between high standards and unreasonableness. MA school leaders are not some god who cannot be questioned.

It's his school, thus it's his standards. If you don't like those standards, go some place else. There's lots of places and BB is meaningless outside of the specific lineage for the specific system in question. If you're lucky a given system will have a certifying body that sets standards and curicula for all schools in it's organization. If you're really really lucky, it will be a member of a multi-organization umbrella which all shook hands and agreed to recognize each other's ranks and curriculums (like Judo does). But sometimes it's just Sokitume Sensei and what he says for his school. Don't like it, go someplace else. <shrug>

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Rumy73]

It's his school, thus it's his standards. If you don't like those standards, go some place else. There's lots of places and BB is meaningless outside of the specific lineage for the specific system in question. If you're lucky a given system will have a certifying body that sets standards and curicula for all schools in it's organization. If you're really really lucky, it will be a member of a multi-organization umbrella which all shook hands and agreed to recognize each other's ranks and curriculums (like Judo does). But sometimes it's just Sokitume Sensei and what he says for his school. Don't like it, go someplace else. <shrug>

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Thanks for the wisdom.

 

[Chris Parker]

That depends on the area and time period. In Medieval Europe, many of the same mnemonic techniques were used regardless of the area of instruction, either physical skills or intellectual skills. Further, their view of how the universe "works" dominated, influenced, and dictated all aspects of their education, whether intellectual, philosophical, or physical skills. In fact, to a certain degree, they were all considered to be linked, entwined inseparably with each other.

You can see an example of this in the front page of certain fight manuals, Fiore's Flos Duellatorum is an example. Each of the animals shown, the things they're doing, and their specific positions on the page, have a pseudo-philosophical/scientific and mnemonic purpose. They're symbolism intended to both create a frame of reference for learning and as part of a unifying "understanding" of the world.

View attachment 18491

Another example is how Mathematics, Mysticism/Philosophy/Hermetic Tradition, and Martial Arts are rolled up in the Destreza, the Spanish "Mystic Circle" most commonly recognized today in Thibault's "Mysterious Circle."

View attachment 18492

I can't comment much more on the specifics than that, because it's outside of the scope of my usual studies. However, to say that the learning methodologies of martial arts is different from those of academics reflects a modern 19th Century Western view of the world.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Hey Kirk,

Yeah, I'm quite familiar with such things, especially in the older Japanese arts (and have certainly come across a fair bit of it in the older European ones as well, and other cultures of course), but as the context was modern academics and modern martial arts classes, specifically the requirements for Shodan in the OP's school, the application and assimilation/relationship in older systems didn't seem particularly relevant. I'd also argue that, while certainly part of the overall "schooling" taught to the prospective warriors, it was more that they would attend a single school which encompassed all such things (same as in Japan), not that the martial arts themselves were necessarily the same thing, just that they were addressed as part of a more holistic, overarching pedagogy.

Very interesting posts, as usual, of course.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I don't really want to harp on this, but...

Was nobody promoted while you're there? Did nothing else give you a clue that you needed to do something more in order to test? You seem to be awful intent on blaming your instructor rather than accepting some of the responsibility.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I said it was probably my fault, so Im not blaming my instructor.

 

[lklawson]

Hey Kirk,

Yeah, I'm quite familiar with such things, especially in the older Japanese arts (and have certainly come across a fair bit of it in the older European ones as well, and other cultures of course), but as the context was modern academics and modern martial arts classes, specifically the requirements for Shodan in the OP's school, the application and assimilation/relationship in older systems didn't seem particularly relevant. I'd also argue that, while certainly part of the overall "schooling" taught to the prospective warriors, it was more that they would attend a single school which encompassed all such things (same as in Japan), not that the martial arts themselves were necessarily the same thing, just that they were addressed as part of a more holistic, overarching pedagogy.

Fair enough.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[MJS]

Food for thought: I know some teachers are who are the hyper opposite of McDojo and set standards too high, rarely testing students. These are very few and far between, but they are out there.

The problem with MA is almost every place in the U.S. wants the student to sign a contract. As a student, you really do not know what you are committing to until a few months into it.

Not testing people at all, isn't a good thing, IMO. However, I know of a few schools in my area, in which the testing standards are high, and it shows in the students. My teacher is like that. I recall one night after class, I was talking to him, and he said that he wouldn't feel right with himself, if he gave rank to someone, especially BB rank, to someone who wasn't ready.

As far as the contracts go...sure, some places do that, some don't. Some use very high pressure, some don't. IMO though, it's very important for the potential student to research things. I mean, after all, it's your money. Why would you want to give your hard earned money to a fraud?

 

[Instructor]

We have no contracts at my school, folks are free to come and go as they please. We do normally delay students at the last few levels before the black belt test. We encourage them to help in teaching others and to do what they've learned over and over. It's not unusual to delay a student for six months or so just to make sure they have it backwards and forwards and can do what they are trained when pressed.

 

[Chris Parker]

I said it was probably my fault, so Im not blaming my instructor.

Are you incapable of reading the actual questions? You have, for a number of threads now, ignored questions, answered ones not asked, and complained that people aren't registering what you're saying. You were asked if anyone else was promoted. You were asked is there was anything else that gave you a clue as to other requirements for your grade. You have responded without answering those questions.

Look, I'm going to be blunt. You come across to me as a sheltered, largely emotionally immature individual. A grown-up child, really. I don't know if there's a clinical reason, or not, but frankly, you may want to start considering looking at your life. You have made numerous references to your life being ruined by not getting a black belt by the time you were 20, saying it ruined job prospects, but couldn't identify what job prospects required it (the only one I can think of is martial arts teacher, really). You've started threads in the Qi/Ki section talking about Yoda jumping around as if it wasn't a computer-generated image in a movie (saying "he was 800 years old, which is quite old even for his species"... dude, he's a fictional movie character, and it was a scene in a movie), you refuse to answer direct, simple questions, and act as if the whole world depends on minuscule things. It doesn't.

If I was to suggest something, it would be that the reason you weren't allowed to test for so long is largely down to this lack of emotional maturity. I have had students like you myself, and have some now... genuine students who are loyal and dedicated... but due to psychological issues, it severely limits their progress. My personal standards for black belt means that I'd be very reticent to test them at all... some I "inherited" as black belts, but I can't see them going any further without a major change.

I recommend looking to yourself, and potentially seeking professional therapy. I don't know that we're really that beneficial for you here if you can't get past these issues. We are a discussion group, not a therapy one.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Are you incapable of reading the actual questions? You have, for a number of threads now, ignored questions, answered ones not asked, and complained that people aren't registering what you're saying. You were asked if anyone else was promoted. You were asked is there was anything else that gave you a clue as to other requirements for your grade. You have responded without answering those questions.

Look, I'm going to be blunt. You come across to me as a sheltered, largely emotionally immature individual. A grown-up child, really. I don't know if there's a clinical reason, or not, but frankly, you may want to start considering looking at your life. You have made numerous references to your life being ruined by not getting a black belt by the time you were 20, saying it ruined job prospects, but couldn't identify what job prospects required it (the only one I can think of is martial arts teacher, really). You've started threads in the Qi/Ki section talking about Yoda jumping around as if it wasn't a computer-generated image in a movie (saying "he was 800 years old, which is quite old even for his species"... dude, he's a fictional movie character, and it was a scene in a movie), you refuse to answer direct, simple questions, and act as if the whole world depends on minuscule things. It doesn't.

If I was to suggest something, it would be that the reason you weren't allowed to test for so long is largely down to this lack of emotional maturity. I have had students like you myself, and have some now... genuine students who are loyal and dedicated... but due to psychological issues, it severely limits their progress. My personal standards for black belt means that I'd be very reticent to test them at all... some I "inherited" as black belts, but I can't see them going any further without a major change.

I recommend looking to yourself, and potentially seeking professional therapy. I don't know that we're really that beneficial for you here if you can't get past these issues. We are a discussion group, not a therapy one.

I will respond to the rest of your post when I have time but as for now I will say that my post about Yoda was in the bar and grill post which is not supposed to be particularly about martial arts but anything else you want to chat about. I obviously know that Yoda is pretend and all but in the bar and grill board you can post about particularly whatever you want. My post was meant for Starwars fans and I would assume that most, if not all of us Starwars geeks know that Starwars is pretend and we discuss such stuff from a Starwars standpoint well aware that the stuff we are talking about is make believe.

As for not being allowed to test, it wasn't that I wasn't allowed to test it was that I didn't know I could test at my own discretion. Yes there were other students that were promoted at the time but I didn't think to ask my sensei if it was required for him to tell me to test.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Also, at one time I did see a therapist but he did not have a background in the martial arts so he wasn't of much help to my martial arts dilemma. What I needed was a therapist who did have a background in the martial arts.

 

[Chris Parker]

Also, at one time I did see a therapist but he did not have a background in the martial arts so he wasn't of much help to my martial arts dilemma. What I needed was a therapist who did have a background in the martial arts.

No, you didn't.

And your Star Wars post wasn't in the Locker Room. Your one on being like Wolverine was. And it didn't read as anything but you asking seriously about that as well.

 

[PhotonGuy]

You're still not answering the question. Let me ask again. Why would someone leave a student in the dark? I mean really...what possible thing could be gained from doing that? Stringing the student along, prolonging the BB test, so the teacher keeps getting money? If thats the case, then thats a mcdojo, and I'd run away..fast!!!

As for this 'myth', well, I'm sorry, but I've been training for over 20 yrs in the arts, and I've never seen a dojo like you describe, other than a mcdojo. Each and every dojo that I've trained in, the teacher told the student when they were ready, not the other way around. My teacher is very traditional, very old school, and is Japanese. I wouldn't dream of asking when I could test, for ANY rank, let alone BB, and I doubt any other student there would either. It's not done out of fear, its done out of respect!

Anyways, I'm done for now with this thread, at least until I can get a straigh answer from the question I asked you.

Why would a sensei leave a student in the dark about what he needs to do to get a black belt? Maybe its because the student doesn't ask the sensei. Now, you might be asking why a sensei would leave a student in the dark who doesn't ask, that the student shouldn't ask and that the sensei should just tell the student what they need to work on and when the student is ready. So in that case, why would a sensei leave a student in the dark? I don't know. Im just telling you my experience.

 

[ballen0351]

Why would a sensei leave a student in the dark about what he needs to do to get a black belt? Maybe its because the student doesn't ask the sensei. Now, you might be asking why a sensei would leave a student in the dark who doesn't ask, that the student shouldn't ask and that the sensei should just tell the student what they need to work on and when the student is ready. So in that case, why would a sensei leave a student in the dark? I don't know. Im just telling you my experience.

Maybe the student was so obsessed with the belt the Sensei decided the student wasnt ready.