United States A Nation of Cowards??

[elder999]

Nah, there ain't no racism in the world except the U.S.

In fact gang, just google 'racism xxxx' and fill in xxxx with whatever country you desire and presto, you will find some intresting articles.

Only in the U.S. we ain't beheading people, necklacing people, stavring people, mass executions, and the like.?

Deaf

I suppose, then, that we shouldn't talk about the everyday very real problems here, that effect us here, in the U.S.? Because "racism is everywhere," does that mean we can't-or shouldn't do anything about it? I don't get what you're trying to say at all.......of course, all of those things have happened in the U.S.

BTW:

Britons flee French island of Guadeloupe as rioters turn on white families

If you read it you will see the islanders don't like white people. But... since most are leaving they will soon find out what a zero cash economy will be like.

You might want to explain that-to some, who don't bother to read the article, it might sound racist.

 

[Deaf Smith]

elder,

Holder called the nation a coward. Our problem of race is a very minor one compaired to the racism in the world (has I have shown.)

We had a civil war over this race thing (slavery.)

We then had much needed civil rights legislation 40 years ago.

We then had 'affirmative action' for oh, 30 or so years.

We have had different races as represeatives, senators, mayors, govenors, billionares, actors, CEOs, etc.... even a President now.

Now compare that to the world and it's racism and what those countries do, or not do.

Do that and well..... this 'coward' business is just BS. It's an insult. Its grandstanding and not worth consideration.

Deaf

 

[elder999]

elder,

Holder called the nation a coward. Our problem of race is a very minor one compaired to the racism in the world (has I have shown.)

Holder said "We're all cowards"While that would include him, I think his statement was largely rhetorical, and your protestations do nothing but prove his rhetoric to have substance.

We had a civil war over this race thing (slavery.)

Had a civil war over a lot of things, least of all "this race thing."

We then had much needed civil rights legislation 40 years ago.

Nearly 50 years ago, but who's counting? It's really just part of the conversation, rather than proof that the conversation is unecessary.

We then had 'affirmative action' for oh, 30 or so years.

WHich could really be another part of the "conversation," rather than evidence that it's not necessary.

We have had different races as represeatives, senators, mayors, govenors, billionares, actors, CEOs, etc.... even a President now.

Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs :lol:-generals, millionaire nuclear physicists, engineers,people in national security positions.....Nearly all of whom would say that there is racism in the U.S., and that a conversation is necessary.....

Now compare that to the world and it's racism and what those countries do, or not do.

Why would I do that? I live here. I've always lived here. I've been all over the world-even "stayed" in other countries for a long period of time, and experienced racism in a variety of ways, and a variety of places. Heck, try and be black in Japan for a year. :lol: Racism exists everywhere, sure.

It's never hurt me more than it has right here.At home, where it counts

Do that and well..... this 'coward' business is just BS. It's an insult. Its grandstanding and not worth consideration.

Deaf

Then maybe you should just stay out of the conversation....you obviously either don't think that it's necessary, or you're....a ....."scaredy-cat?" :lol:

I mean, I dunno-why not just talk about racism in the U.S.? What are you afraid of? :lfao:

 

[Thesemindz]

Let's talk about whether or not we are a nation of cowards. Warning, there is some offensive language contained within this post. It is there to prove a point. Whether or not you get offended by it is your prerogative.

I know white people who are afraid to be around black people because they are afraid they are criminals, or prone to violence, or at best, poor and uneducated.

To be fair, I've known black people who were criminals, and prone to violence, and about whom "poor and uneducated" were as close to compliments as anyone could offer.

Of course, to be fair, I've known far more poor, uneducated, violent, criminal white people. That's probably a result of the local demographics. I live in a city of mostly white citizens.

I also know white people who don't have any problem what so ever with black people, but are afraid to even have a conversation in the same room as them, because they don't want to say the wrong thing and be thought of as racist. People who are almost incapacitated by their fear of social censure and the stigma attached to being a racist. Decent, open minded people, who are so frozen by that fear that they shut up completely, and then are thought of as racist anyway because of their odd behavior.

I've worked with black people who get irritated by the racism they see in their own culture and in other black americans. I've also worked with a black guy who said, "The reason you people drag brothers behind trucks is all this damn country music you keep listening to." I've also worked with black guys who see racism in every bad tip, and every lost promotion, and every bad interview, and every person who cuts them off in traffic.

I've heard affirmative action described as racist, fairness, reparations, and punishment for the sins of white people most of us aren't related to and wouldn't agree with. I've talked with white and black guys both who felt either way.

I've worked with white people who think that Barack Obama is a black guy, an arab, a muslim, a christian, a socialist, a communist, or an operative for a foreign government. I've worked with black people who think he's a white guy, a sell out, a tool for the white man, the answer to their prayers, or payback for slavery.

For me, it keeps coming back to the same business, and mellanin don't enter into it. It's about three things, poverty, education, and life experience. If you're poor and uneducated and ignorant, you spend a lot more time hating and blaming. If you have money and education you have better things to do with your time, and if you have exposure to lifestyles and ideas other than your own you tend to see them as aspects of people, instead of descriptions of monsters.

As long as we're talking about racism, why not mention religious persecution, or homophobia, or sexism, or martial arts fascists. See, to my mind, it's all the same stupid garbage. It's ignorance, wrapped in group think, with a hint of violent pretention. It doesn't have much of a basis in reality, but then, it doesn't need one. After all, bigots tend to hang around with bigots. Their ideas get constant, one sided reinforcement, and they rarely if ever associate with the object of their derision, so how could they learn the error of their ways?

Do we have racism here? You bet. Is it propogated and perpetuated by those in power to keep us divided against one another instead of focused on fixing the problems that plague our society? You better believe it. They want us pissed at the darkies, and the fags, and the towelheads. Pissed at outsider isn't pissed at powerful. It's no different than all that R and D crap they use to keep half the country at the other half's throats.

But it doesn't just come from the top. It comes from the bottom too. Strength in numbers right? So we stick to our comfort zone. White people don't want to be thought of as racist, so they just hang out with other white people where it can't come up. And black people don't want all the dirty looks and judgement, so they hang out with other black people who can relate. And homosexuals, and muslims, and mexicans, etc. etc. all stay with their own kind because it's more comfortable. And maybe it's safer too.

But that doesn't help the problem. As long as Tae-Kwon-Do guys don't hang out with Kenpo guys, they'll both think they have the best technique. It isn't until we all get together and throw it down that we find out what the truth is.

So I say, let's get all the pissed off black people, and the homophobes, and the white elitists, and the fundamentalist you-name-its in one room together and get them to agree on one thing.

Everybody hates the taxman.


-Rob

 

[jarrod]

It's about three things, poverty, education, and life experience.

nailed it.

jf

 

[searcher]

How did we go from a a cowards debate to a race debate in only 5 pages?

 

[jarrod]

that's a very cowardly white man's question, jon.

:roflmao:

jf

 

[elder999]

How did we go from a a cowards debate to a race debate in only 5 pages?

The excellent Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary defines "cowardice," thusly:

Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.

Though that "pain" might just be emotional, or social. "Cowardice" can be thought of as a perceived failure to demonstrate sufficient bravery in the face of an adverse situation. Cowards are usually seen to have avoided or refused to engage in a confrontation or struggle which has been deemed good or righteous by the wider culture in which they live.

Well, Deaf seems to be saying that we don't have to talk about racism, because it's everywhere-or, at least, that "we're not cowards, because they're worse than we are in Africa."

I'd bet Mr. Holder would use him as an example of what he's talking about.

On the other hand, this particular conversation that we've been having in this thread has touched on a variety of topics that people are just downright afraid to talk about, either for fear of being callled racists, or because they know they are racists. Bob Hubbard seems to agree with Mr. Holder:

Question "Black History Month", get called a racist
Been there, have the links to prove it.

If the answer isn't "because the white man is keeping the black man down", you're a bigot.

I'll gladly talk about the issue, soon as people stop making excuses for their failings,

THe original poster seems to disagree:

Calling us a nation of cowards -- racially speaking is kinda stupid I think, we DID elect a Black man for president didnt' we? Oh wait... he's half black and half white... BIG difference <sarcasm> .

then agree, somewhat:

Well the question is WHY are we?
Is it because we may accidentally step on a nerve?
That the "N-word" might slip out during the conversation?
That our real prejudices may show through during the course of the conversations?

And some were smart enough to recognize Mr. Holder's statement for what it was: a bit of rhetoric designed to stimulate conflict and converstation:

Interesting comments. I don't know if we're a nation of cowards or not, but I agree that we often tend to avoid frank, open, and honest discussions about race. I'm generally not comfortable discussing it, and I feel comfortable about discussing many things.

I think the term "cowards" was a little too harsh. However, it did bring us on the subject of race so in that light, it's successful
I think Americans, generally speaking, are over-involved with the topic of race. Our concepts of "cool" is dictated at least in part due to race. We live, breathe, and eat racial stereotypes every day. Our media stream is saturated with racial flotsam and jetsam

and some seem to have a legitimate gripe, though others might call it "racist":

Because if a white person is critical of any other race the "race card" gets dropped on the table.

Of course, we're not a "nation of cowards" when it comes to anything, so far, but we do tend to avoid what is a very painful conversation, and, it's like I've said-I've never known a problem to go away by not talking about it. Though, perhaps this isn't the place for such a discussion. Or maybe it is.....

For those who would say that racism isn't a problem in this country, take a look over on the Stormfront once or twice, if you have the stomach for it. Literally thousands of white supremacists, all proud to call themselves racists. They're not all ignorant or uneducated-they come from all walks of life:lawyers, doctors, ministers, policemen, soldiers, hell, some of them even work at National Labs.....

Of course, there are a variety of related topics that will stir controversy, and make people uncomfortable, whichever side of the issue they're on:

Affirmative action, racial profiling,black crime statistics, housing demographics,black music, rap music, music, food, self-segregation, bussing, murder rates, hate crime legislation, employment quota systems, educational quota systems, the "N" word, racial scholarship funds,racial beauty "decorating" with nooses, decorating with a Confederate flag, the Confederate flag, Black History Month, "African American studies," pageants, BET, professional sports, reparations for slavery, a national apology for slavery,welfare,welfare reform, welfare queens, "Obamas whole campaign is 'vote for me, I'm a black guy'"

Any one of those things has been enough to stir the pot here on MT and other forums-things people have strong feeling about, and sometimes feel that they can't discuss without being improperly labeled "racist." Or don't want to discuss, and hide behind that old "you can't understand, because you're white." Or won't discuss because they know that their feelings, or values, or beliefs, or thoughts on the issue are racist-and all of these, this last especially, can be applied to both blacks and whites and all races-sometimes Indians -you should see the prejudice that's sometimes directed towards me by some of my native brothers for my mixed heritage, never mind whites and blacks-try spending a whole life being asked, as I have, quite boldly, What are you??

Of course, I always answer that question truthfully, but it depends upon what day it is: sometimes, I'm just "black," and sometimes it gets the whole story, and a lot of the time, well.....
.......I'm a human being.

Of course, no one who asks that question is ever satisfied with that answer.........

 

[Deaf Smith]

Of course, no one who asks that question is ever satisfied with that answer.........

I'm pretty sure they will never be satisfied with the answers. Could have sworn we were supposed to be 'color blind'. Yet as things improve, at least here, they try instead to paint all conversations in the light of color.

So tell me, want some discussion on race?

Let's try 'affirmative action'? Is it still needed? Is it simply racism in reverse? Just what is 'affirmatve action' in the light of the first black president being elected? Can it now be justified?

Deaf

 

[Thesemindz]

Could have sworn we were supposed to be 'color blind'.

Personally, I think this color blind crap is part of the problem.

If I say I don't see you're race, then I'm denying an important part of who you are. I'm denying your ancestry, your culture, and everything you've endured and benefited from because of your race.

How about instead of pretending we can't see color, we just allow people to be whatever color they are and judge them based on whether or not they're pricks instead?


-Rob

 

[MA-Caver]

Personally, I think this color blind crap is part of the problem.

If I say I don't see you're race, then I'm denying an important part of who you are. I'm denying your ancestry, your culture, and everything you've endured and benefited from because of your race.

True, it does make a statement and those who would take the time to study the history of the people could find an appreciation for the individual based on his ancestor's experiences ... good or bad. However it STILL by no means says ANYTHING about the individual themselves... particularly if they're born and raised in this country... where ancestral values aren't always passed on from one generation to the next... not always these days. Or if they are... they aren't as revered or treasured as per my experience with non-white youths I've met. That or they look at me and see what my race has done to theirs and invariably hold that against me.

How about instead of pretending we can't see color, we just allow people to be whatever color they are and judge them based on whether or not they're pricks instead?
-Rob

That's basically how I try to "judge" a person I meet for the first time... on their individual character traits. Just because they're a prick doesn't always mean the next one I meet will be the same, I've had to learn that the hard way. I known plenty of white pricks to last me a while.

 

[searcher]

So tell me, want some discussion on race?

Let's try 'affirmative action'? Is it still needed? Is it simply racism in reverse? Just what is 'affirmatve action' in the light of the first black president being elected? Can it now be justified?

Deaf

Not really on #1, with the election it has been beat to death.

OK, lets talk affirmative action, the reason why I could not get into Medical School.

Needed? NO!!!

Racism in reverse? Yes, bigger than life itself.

What is it? A waste of government money.

Can it be justified? Depends on how many lawyers you have in one room together. You have enough people in one area and I am sure there will be hundreds of cases of how it works. And hundreds of how it does not.

 

[elder999]

OK, lets talk affirmative action, the reason why I could not get into Medical School.

Racism in reverse? Yes, bigger than life itself..

There is no "racism in reverse, or reverse racism.

There's just racism, and if you want to say that "affirmative action is racist," then that's what you should say.....because it is.

As for why you couldn't get into medical school, it always boils down to two things: either you weren't "qualified" or you didn't try hard enough. Someone told you a lie-that is to say, "never-and you believed it.

Could have sworn we were supposed to be 'color blind'.

Well, no, we're not supposed to be "color blind." The French tried that-as in "we're all French," and then they tried to deny any differences. In the end, all they've reaped from it is discontent, and a kind of de facto segregation and discrimination that led to a growing sub class of society feeling increasingly discontent, unrecognized and marginalized-and, finally, just plain easy to piss off.

Recognition of differences without any pre-judgement is the first step to any kind of understanding.

 

[Thesemindz]

Recognition of differences without any pre-judgement is the first step to any kind of understanding.

Exactly. Thank you.


-Rob

 

[Gordon Nore]

There is no "racism in reverse, or reverse racism.

Damn straight. What I don't like about the notion of reverse racism or reverse discrimination is that they are somehow worse than racism or discrimination.

 

[Empty Hands]

OK, lets talk affirmative action, the reason why I could not get into Medical School.

Most everyone who tries, black or white, doesn't get into med school. You weren't good enough, sorry. You won't get good enough either if you continually cling to racial resentment to explain your failings instead of doing the hard work of making yourself better.

 

[Carol]

If "affirmative action" was the conclusion of a pre-med advisor based on your application package, then find another pre-med advisor right away.