Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[granfire]

One thing I notice, and that I believe we can both agree on, is that all the above would be genuinely coming from a good place; politeness, goodness, kindness.

Ironically, isn't it a good chance that Trayvon Martin would still be alive today if George Zimmerman had approached Trayvon with all the same goodness, kindness, and politeness?

You are assuming....
I don't think a lot of people know what actually happened preceding the fatal shooting.
maybe there would have been no drama at all if both people involved had minded their manners.

Maybe only one was a brat.

I know that children and teens often do not see their behavior patterns as insulting or offensive.
Or any type of interaction from an adult (or any other person, really) can be seen as insult.

I suppose some of what transpired will come out in court.

maybe.

 

[Wo Fat]

You are assuming....
I don't think a lot of people know what actually happened preceding the fatal shooting.
maybe there would have been no drama at all if both people involved had minded their manners.

Maybe only one was a brat.

I know that children and teens often do not see their behavior patterns as insulting or offensive.
Or any type of interaction from an adult (or any other person, really) can be seen as insult.

I suppose some of what transpired will come out in court.

maybe.

The content of Zimmerman's 911 call eliminates the need to assume certain things.

He deemed Martin suspicious. There were no niceties extended.

 

[ballen0351]

I stated that a bit ago had both zimmerman confronted martin politely and just tokd him what he was doing and had Martin responded with the same civility and just explained to zimmerman what he was doing we would not be having this conversation. But its the attitude of youcant question me im a grown *** man how dare you speak to me that put us where we are today the same attitude you dispaly on this thread and having delt with Many teenage boys and having been one myself once i can see the same attitude you display comong from martin. I was the same way as a teen and young adult. Nobody had the right to question me Im a man blah blah blah. Ive seen too much violence over "he bumped into me" or " he disrespected me" or " he kept looking at me" that now ill take the approch of you want to ask me a question no problem ask away. Its safer for both of us.

One thing I notice, and that I believe we can both agree on, is that all the above would be genuinely coming from a good place; politeness, goodness, kindness.

Ironically, isn't it a good chance that Trayvon Martin would still be alive today if George Zimmerman had approached Trayvon with all the same goodness, kindness, and politeness?

 

[shesulsa]

I stated that a bit ago had both zimmerman confronted martin politely and just tokd him what he was doing and had Martin responded with the same civility and just explained to zimmerman what he was doing we would not be having this conversation. But its the attitude of youcant question me im a grown *** man how dare you speak to me that put us where we are today the same attitude you dispaly on this thread and having delt with Many teenage boys and having been one myself once i can see the same attitude you display comong from martin. I was the same way as a teen and young adult. Nobody had the right to question me Im a man blah blah blah. Ive seen too much violence over "he bumped into me" or " he disrespected me" or " he kept looking at me" that now ill take the approch of you want to ask me a question no problem ask away. Its safer for both of us.

And if someone asked me why I was following them, I would stop, identify and explain myself. If things were not copacetic after that, I would have TAKEN THE ADVICE OF THE 911 OPERATOR AND LEFT THE MAN THE HELL ALONE!

 

[ballen0351]

And if someone asked me why I was following them, I would stop, identify and explain myself. If things were not copacetic after that, I would have TAKEN THE ADVICE OF THE 911 OPERATOR AND LEFT THE MAN THE HELL ALONE!

Yep and the person being followed should have just kept on walking hung up with his girlfriend and called 911 if he was so afraid.

 

[Wo Fat]

I stated that a bit ago had both zimmerman confronted martin politely and just tokd him what he was doing and had Martin responded with the same civility and just explained to zimmerman what he was doing we would not be having this conversation.

My apology. I must have missed that.

You're absolutely right. If Zimmerman had introduced/identified himself in a polite, respectful manner befitting a professional neighborhood watch captain ...

Good evening. I'm George, the neighborhood watch captain. How you doin'. Are you new to the neighborhood?

the most that Trayvon could have done was to be slightly offended and treated Zimmerman with all the respect of a mall cop. GZ could have called the cops who would have eventually located Trayvon at his dad's fiance's house. At worst, Trayvon would have gotten a talking-to by his dad about being a smart-a$$ and inviting a visit by the cops. But he'd be alive and maybe on restriction or something.

 

[shesulsa]

Do you really think the average 17-year-old male is that educated?

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[shesulsa]

Do you really think the average 17-year-old male is that educated?

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That was addressed to Ballen.

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[granfire]

Do you really think the average 17-year-old male is that educated?

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trick question.

While they should certainly know better - I'd say no.

 

[shesulsa]

trick question.

While they should certainly know better - I'd say no.

No trick intended. My daughter at 17 didn't know to call 911 after she was a pedestrian victim of a hit-and-run.

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[granfire]

No trick intended. My daughter at 17 didn't know to call 911 after she was a pedestrian victim of a hit-and-run.

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well, like I said, ought to know better...

But I sure hope she knew the number for 911...(a joke between my kid, not 17 yet, and myself)

 

[ballen0351]

Do you really think the average 17-year-old male is that educated?

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I dont know but they taught my kindergartner how to call 911 in school so I would say most are.

 

[jks9199]

No trick intended. My daughter at 17 didn't know to call 911 after she was a pedestrian victim of a hit-and-run.

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Actually, not uncommon. Adrenaline response; it makes us all idiots. How many people actually practice calling 911 in some sort of scenario training? Your daughter, through no fault of her own or yours, simply couldn't do the mental processing to call 911. She probably, I'm guessing, called mommy. Because that was something she's done in emotionally charged situations.

 

[shesulsa]

I dont know but they taught my kindergartner how to call 911 in school so I would say most are.

Dude ... really?

Knowing the number, that it is for emergencies, and how to dial it are kindergarten skills. I'm talking about in the context of victimization. We teach our kids to call it under external circumstances, not necessarily nor specifically if they could be victims, especially if the situation appears manageable to them. And really, what situation does a pedestrian 17 yo male think he cannot handle?

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[granfire]

Actually, not uncommon. Adrenaline response; it makes us all idiots. How many people actually practice calling 911 in some sort of scenario training? Your daughter, through no fault of her own or yours, simply couldn't do the mental processing to call 911. She probably, I'm guessing, called mommy. Because that was something she's done in emotionally charged situations.

Dude ... really?

Knowing the number, that it is for emergencies, and how to dial it are kindergarten skills. I'm talking about in the context of victimization. We teach our kids to call it under external circumstances, not necessarily nor specifically if they could be victims, especially if the situation appears manageable to them. And really, what situation does a pedestrian 17 yo male think he cannot handle?

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I can see that...
I was nervous calling 911 when my neighbor set his lawn on fire a couple of years ago...and it was not a serious emergency, though the line of embers was stretching from gas meter to gas meter...

And while we are told 'call 911' we are also taught not to for frivilous stuff, or 'OMG I BUTT DIALED 911!!'

(however...a creepy guy following you around, that's normally not a adrenalin situation... plenty of time to hang up, dial and have your finger on the send button!)

 

[ballen0351]

Dude ... really?

Knowing the number, that it is for emergencies, and how to dial it are kindergarten skills. I'm talking about in the context of victimization. We teach our kids to call it under external circumstances, not necessarily nor specifically if they could be victims, especially if the situation appears manageable to them. And really, what situation does a pedestrian 17 yo male think he cannot handle?

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Well Ive responded to 911 calls made by kids all the time normally when daddy is smacking mommy around again. So can kids do it Yes they can. Can every kid do it Nope.
Now I do teach my kids how to dial it and when but Im also a paranoid safety freak. Ive had a people follow me home from work before and when I was single and lived in the same jurisdiction I worked in I had a guy and his friends That I locked up a few hours before show up in my driveway in the middle of the night. When I was K-9 and had a marked patrol car in the driveway Ive had people run to my house for help and even a guy that wanted to turn himself in on a Warrant. So my kids know how and when to call 911.

 

[shesulsa]

I can see that...
I was nervous calling 911 when my neighbor set his lawn on fire a couple of years ago...and it was not a serious emergency, though the line of embers was stretching from gas meter to gas meter...

And while we are told 'call 911' we are also taught not to for frivilous stuff, or 'OMG I BUTT DIALED 911!!'

(however...a creepy guy following you around, that's normally not a adrenalin situation... plenty of time to hang up, dial and have your finger on the send button!)

See, I think that stuff is a no-brainer. Some people will hesitate to call 911 when something is happening to them because they don't think it warrants it yet. Example: I have a tenant who had someone pounding on the front door and trying to open it ... she just stood there yelling, not thinking to call 911. To me, that's a no-brainer. Of course you call 911. Someone following you? Hell, I've called because I heard a gunshot in the neighborhood and they didn't come out; what would I call 911 for? Avoid the person? go straight home? that's what they would tell the kid. He knew that so ... why call? Even if he got into a fight he likely wouldn't call.

Monday morning quarterbacking is easy, isn't it? We're all alive to second-guess the kid. I'm just saying I'm in contact with A LOT of teens and they rarely call the police or 911 even when (obviously to me) it is warranted. Knowing how to dial, knowing that a fire or accident requires the call ... that's child's play. Calling on something like this? I can TOTALLY see my kid's friends NOT calling 911 just because they don't think bad things will happen to them or that they can't handle a street fight.

 

[ballen0351]

See, I think that stuff is a no-brainer. Some people will hesitate to call 911 when something is happening to them because they don't think it warrants it yet. Example: I have a tenant who had someone pounding on the front door and trying to open it ... she just stood there yelling, not thinking to call 911. To me, that's a no-brainer. Of course you call 911. Someone following you? Hell, I've called because I heard a gunshot in the neighborhood and they didn't come out; what would I call 911 for? Avoid the person? go straight home? that's what they would tell the kid. He knew that so ... why call? Even if he got into a fight he likely wouldn't call.

How on earth do you know what the dispatcher would have told him? More then likely being a smaller town they would have put two and two together with.his call and zimmermans and either told responding units to increase code because the situation is getting worse. Or they would have said police are already coming which may have prevented him from feeling the need to defend himself.

Monday morning quarterbacking is easy, isn't it? We're all alive to second-guess the kid. I'm just saying I'm in contact with A LOT of teens and they rarely call the police or 911 even when (obviously to me) it is warranted. Knowing how to dial, knowing that a fire or accident requires the call ... that's child's play. Calling on something like this? I can TOTALLY see my kid's friends NOT calling 911 just because they don't think bad things will happen to them or that they can't handle a street fight.

So use this as a teaching tool to show them when its proper to call 911.

 

[Carol]

My chemistry professor taught us that an emergency is when your actions make a difference. Reporting something to 911 doesn't necessarily have to mean encountering a fire or a blood-and-guts accident. It could be a tweaker continuously harassing a solo c-store clerk late at night, or a car stalled out in the right lane.

Even taking a sec to listen to a child's shriek...is it normal kid stuff? Or is there more going on?

Calling 911 is a skill. It can be awkward. But w/ proper situational awareness, it can also make difference, both now and later.

 

[Wo Fat]

But its the attitude of youcant question me im a grown *** man how dare you speak to me that put us where we are today ...

Yep and the person being followed should have just kept on walking hung up with his girlfriend and called 911 if he was so afraid.

And once again, here's the dichotomy. Trayvon acted like the typical brainless, smart-alec teenager; it's no wonder this happened. At the same time, Trayvon should have had the composure and presence of mind to recognize a potentially dangerous situation and call 911.