Training Outside of Class?

[spidersam]

How many “big” Olympic sprinter have you ever seen?

From my speculation of the comments in this thread... It sounds like, in regards to martial arts, it wouldn't be about getting *big*. It would be about getting an efficient, balanced amount of muscle for your body mass

 

[jobo]

How many “big” Olympic sprinter have you ever seen?

All of them are pretty big,But let's settle for Ben Johnson, he was BIG ( unnaturally so)they certainly couldn't be described as peewee, so they are by default BIG, using the only two measures you gave

 

[jobo]

From my speculation of the comments in this thread... It sounds like, in regards to martial arts, it wouldn't be about getting *big*. It would be about getting an efficient, balanced amount of muscle for your body mass

Yes, but not just ma, it's pOWEr athletes in general, If your developed muscles will accelerate your mass, including your developed muscle your fast at least for relatively short distances

 

[dvcochran]

Yeah, 1000lb of force is 4448.22 newtons, which is enough force to break a human femur. If you could generate that much force (bearing in mind you would also suffer a similar force) I wouldn't be worried about sweeping a leg.....

I was trying to remember the most powerful kick I have ever heard of. I think it was in the 400lb range.

 

[dvcochran]

Eer, it's said that under general anesthesia thAt every one Is as supple as a new born baby, alcohol also works quite well as its depressed the serious system, I'm not saying that inelastic muscles army an issue, just that they are not the main issue, as the never get to stretch as theNervious system won't let them And at least generally you can't lengthen muscles, damaged muscles perhaps, but you can stretch your hamstring for ever, it will never get any longer, it's fixed at either end and that's it's lengh,, but you can get the ns, to give a greater range of motion

Increasing stretch is lengthening muscle. How else do you think you go from a 80° to a 100° stretch? Something, a lot of things have to move.

 

[jobo]

Increasing stretch is lengthening muscle. How else do you think you go from a 80° to a 100° stretch? Something, a lot of things have to move.

The muscle, unless your are injured or have some unfortunate Genetic condition /disease, is already that lenGth, the only thing that stops it from going in to position is your NERvious. system

If it was possible to make a muscle longer, it would go all floppy and hanG down when you put your leg down, as it's now to long for your standing leg

 

[dvcochran]

The muscle, unless your are injured or have some unfortunate Genetic condition /disease, is already that lenGth, the only thing that stops it from going in to position is your NERvious. system

If it was possible to make a muscle longer, it would go all floppy and hanG down when you put your leg down, as it's now to long for your standing leg

You are way over exaggerating the condition. Through stretching the muscle learns to lengthen, then when not stretching it return to its "normal" length. Think of when you bend at the knee. The quad lengthens then retracts.
In the muscle is sinew, collections of fibrous material that are packed with nerves. The sinew is literally broken when stretched far enough. It triggers the body to release lactic acid in higher quantities that aggravates the muscle. This is the soreness we feel. As we age the muscles loose their ability to stretch and, I agree, for some the nerves get messed up and trigger more and often quicker to prevent injury.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

My entire perspective on sweeps is that it's not a brute strength technique.

The old man swept behind his opponent's upper leg instead of behind his opponent's ankle. This kind of sweep require some sweeping power that you may call it brute force.

Try to sweep behind your opponent's upper leg and take him down. You will know what I'm talking about.

Why do you want to sweep behind your opponent's upper leg instead of behind his ankle? It will be harder for him to step out and escape.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The old man swept behind his opponent's upper leg instead of behind his opponent's ankle. This kind of sweep require some sweeping power that you may call it brute force.

Try to sweep behind your opponent's upper leg. You will know what I'm talking about.

Play the video in slow motion and you'll see that it doesn't require as much as one would assume. I'm familiar with this sweep and the basic concept of it is the same.

• Break your opponent's root
• Get him off balance
• Time the sweep.

The first one is optional as an opponent may actually break their own root.
Here's what happens int he video (I'm watching it in slow motion)
Step 1: Break your opponent's root. - Succeeds in doing this as he breaks the root of his opponent's left leg. He also enter's his opponent's stance which will later on interfere with the retreat.

Step 2: Get him off balance. - In an attempt to regain the root his opponent takes a narrow stance which means his opponent will not be able to have a strong root due to bad stance. @0:02 Same time frame his opponent tries to move his lead leg but must do so in a bad way because he literally has to step over a leg to retreat. At the same time the opponent retreats, the "fighter" in the black pants tilts his opponent in a direction where there is least resistance. In this case countering backward movement with side movement. Now his opponent is off balance. If you watch carefully you can see him off balance before the sweep actually makes contact.

Step 3: Time the sweep - Sweeps do not require a lot of power when Step 1 and Step 2 exist. Sometimes only Step 1 and Step 3 are needed. However they are time sensitive as your opponent will try to regain balance, structure, and root. If you get the timing right then your opponent will float in the air because they will have nothing to available to resist the sweep.

Pick any video of someone sweeping another and you'll see at least 2 of these 3 steps.
Application of the sweep. You can see they aren't putting a lot of power into the sweeps. There just isn't any need to.

This one you would need more strength for, but it's lifting strength and timing for the getting the leg to stick.

With that said there are some harder impact sweeps, which I don't do because i simply don't have the shin conditioning required for it.

 

[_Simon_]

Some interesting conversations developing .

For what it's worth, I would say range of control is more important than range of motion. If one cannot control the surrounding and primary muscles at the lengthened position (due to lack of strength in that end position), injuries can happen easily, as the joint is not properly supported at those ends. Focusing too much on static stretching is sort of like forcing your body into those end positions without developing the necessary strength to support that end range of motion.

Range of control is your ability to control the movement all the way at every point through to the end of that range, and without this type of training, if you find yourself doing a technique and approach the end of the range with power having only done static stretching, as the muscle lengthens rapidly, it can freak out and "seize"/tighten up due to a survival response, as it doesn't know how to control things at that point (of course the muscles don't freak out, just a manner of speaking, more CNS related), and injuries, overtightness and spasms occur.

Dynamic-type stretching and more focus on mobility work helps to develop range of control, and I definitely think dynamic stretching has a very important place.

 

[pdg]

I was trying to remember the most powerful kick I have ever heard of. I think it was in the 400lb range.

How was that measured and what type of kick?

How about a TKD turning kick (roundhouse) being measured as delivering over 1000kg (2200lb) of force?

 

[_Simon_]

How was that measured and what type of kick?

How about a TKD turning kick (roundhouse) being measured as delivering over 1000kg (2200lb) of force?

Machines like this can measure:

I'm unsure however what the numbers mean, he reached 135, but dunno what that's measuring...

 

[pdg]

Machines like this can measure:

I'm unsure however what the numbers mean, he reached 135, but dunno what that's measuring...

Without knowing what 135 refers to it's pretty meaningless...

Is it speed? KMH or MPH?

Force? KG or lb?

How many times he kicked it before that clip?

Number of cotton strands in his laces?

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Machines like this can measure:

I'm unsure however what the numbers mean, he reached 135, but dunno what that's measuring...

If I had to guess, I'd say it was measuring in either Pounds or Kilograms of force. 135 Pounds of force is 600 newtons, and 135KGs of force is 1323 newtons. Either way It's no where close to the 4000 newtons it would take to break a major bone in your body.

 

[pdg]

Without knowing what 135 refers to it's pretty meaningless...

Is it speed? KMH or MPH?

Force? KG or lb?

How many times he kicked it before that clip?

Number of cotton strands in his laces?

If I had to guess, I'd say it was measuring in either Pounds or Kilograms of force. 135 Pounds of force is 600 newtons, and 135KGs of force is 1323 newtons. Either way It's no where close to the 4000 newtons it would take to break a major bone in your body.

Googling the specs of the PowerKube, I'd say it's reaction time...

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Googling the specs of the PowerKube, I'd say it's reaction time...

Really? Reaction time doesn't equate to power. Anyway, here's a better test of power for those interested:

Comparing the Capoeira kick to the traditional Roundhouse kick was very interesting. The Roundhouse was faster, but the Capoeira kick produced more force against the bag.

 

[_Simon_]

Without knowing what 135 refers to it's pretty meaningless...

Is it speed? KMH or MPH?

Force? KG or lb?

How many times he kicked it before that clip?

Number of cotton strands in his laces?

Hehe no idea! But it is called a power station, just putting an example of machines that can measure kicks. Hmm I don't think it's reaction-time though..

 

[pdg]

Really? Reaction time doesn't equate to power. Anyway, here's a better test of power for those interested:

That's the one I was originally referring to - just ignore the BS false conclusion at the end (and forgive the Karate guy for choosing a silly kick...)

 

[_Simon_]

Really? Reaction time doesn't equate to power. Anyway, here's a better test of power for those interested:

Haha ah I only just thought of that clip and then you posted it up, nice XD. Damn, dem kicks...

 

[pdg]

Hehe no idea! But it is called a power station, just putting an example of machines that can measure kicks. Hmm I don't think it's reaction-time though..

I welcome any other conclusion:

PowerKube - Strikecoach