Training Outside of Class?

[Gerry Seymour]

I definitely wouldn't use something like that. My entire perspective on sweeps is that it's not a brute strength technique. Sweeps take advantage of the opponent's weak root and imbalance. Better time would be spent to learning how to recognize when this exists and developing the timing.

If you want to develop ability then you have to do so with a training partner. If you just want to be able to do the movement then you can train that on your own through drills, but it won't be enough to know how to apply it.

I think the point of that training is to be able to sweep even someone who is resisting the sweep (and knows how). It's counter to my approach and training, but I see that philosophy in a lot of the comments John shares from his instructor(s). And there's a certain brute elegance to it.

 

[dvcochran]

And stretches should feel good, or have slight discomfort. They should never actually have pain. Also, pay attention to what is bearing the stretch. You want to feel it deep in the muscle, not near the attachment points.

When I had an actual strength trainer, one of the biggest things he stressed was warmup. Especially muscles rely on fresh, oxygenated blood to work. Getting a sweat going and respective muscle group(s) warm and moving prepares them for the next level of stretch and exercise. No stretching is involved yet. Someone mentioned laying flat of the back with legs on the wall. A good verifier of how much difference the warmup makes, do the stretch before the warmup and then after and see how much easier, less painful, and better the stretch is. There is real science to all the jackets and hoodies you usually seen fighters using before stepping into the ring.

 

[dvcochran]

Because dynamic stretching serves the purpose of increasing the maximum point at which you can stretch your leg, and kicking is focused on the technique of kicking. If I want to work on my front kick, I will do a stretching axe kick for the stretch, and then front kick in order to get the kick in. I guarantee you I get more of a stretch out of the swinging motion, and my stretch kick can go higher than my actual kick.

Same thing for side kick or back kick. I will swing my leg up for a stretch side kick, I will chamber and push for an actual side kick.

There's other motions as well. The motion for a stretching crescent kick is a wide sweeping motion, where I'll use a quicker, more targeted motion for an actual kick.

The muscles stretch differently when you do a swinging motion for a stretch kick than when you chamber and snap. I don't really see how anyone can do a front kick and then an axe kick and go "yeah, the stretch feels the same." Unless you're doing one of the kicks wrong and both look the same, too.

I agree with your comment, but it would be more accurate to say you use different muscles with a swing kick vs. a front kick.

 

[dvcochran]

If you have stronger legs your kick is going to be better.

The theory is sound. Drop a baseball on my foot and I will feel it but not much. Drop a concrete block on my foot and damage will be done. However, how many times have we seen the big guy who could not use his power to complete the simplest of breaks? Then the peewee gets up and, with better technique and mental capacity makes the same break easily? I know, perfect environment and all but it is true. So in a SD situation, if mental capacity being the same I will take the extra strength every time. But if the big guy locks up he is in more trouble. The peewee runs much faster.

 

[jobo]

The theory is sound. Drop a baseball on my foot and I will feel it but not much. Drop a concrete block on my foot and damage will be done. However, how many times have we seen the big guy who could not use his power to complete the simplest of breaks? Then the peewee gets up and, with better technique and mental capacity makes the same break easily? I know, perfect environment and all but it is true. So in a SD situation, if mental capacity being the same I will take the extra strength every time. But if the big guy locks up he is in more trouble. The peewee runs much faster.

Well no, not really, light people can be faster over a few feet, theY can also change direction more quickly, but if the big guy has TRAined his legs to run, he will almost certainly be quicker Over say 50 yards

It's sprint training that matters and then the power to weight ratio

 

[jobo]

It's difficult to stretch the most important muscles for front-kick height during a front kick. They are stressed too late in the kick. The swinging kick puts stress on them earlier, allowing more stretch to them. For most folks, that's going to provide much faster returns on kick height, relaxation, and speed, than attempting to stretch within the offending kick.

Well yes and no, as you most certainly know, restrictions on range of movement arise mostly from the NERvouss system, not the muscles themselves. Dynamic stretching will do little to reprogram the NERvouss system, so the TIMe of the Dynamic stretch is irrelevant, It's the fact you are pumping blood in to the muscle that is benifical,

static stretching is the way to go, if you want to make serious inroads. The problem being that static stretcheS mess with your nervous system and wreck your co ordination. So shouldn't be done just before you want to kick some thing.

The only bIT if a dynamic stretch that counts AS a " stretch" is the last couple of mm, everything else is already in your normal range of motion, it's just warning up the muscle that's benificial. It's matters not if you aRe warming the muscle and stretchIng it 2 Mm doing dynamic stretches or actually kicking some thing, the effect is exactly the same

 

[skribs]

I agree with your comment, but it would be more accurate to say you use different muscles with a swing kick vs. a front kick.

You do. And the ones that are going to be more important for flexibility will be used more.

 

[skribs]

The theory is sound. Drop a baseball on my foot and I will feel it but not much. Drop a concrete block on my foot and damage will be done. However, how many times have we seen the big guy who could not use his power to complete the simplest of breaks? Then the peewee gets up and, with better technique and mental capacity makes the same break easily? I know, perfect environment and all but it is true. So in a SD situation, if mental capacity being the same I will take the extra strength every time. But if the big guy locks up he is in more trouble. The peewee runs much faster.

Do we live in a world where people can ONLY do martial arts or ONLY do weight training?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well yes and no, as you most certainly know, restrictions on range of movement arise mostly from the NERvouss system, not the muscles themselves. Dynamic stretching will do little to reprogram the NERvouss system, so the TIMe of the Dynamic stretch is irrelevant, It's the fact you are pumping blood in to the muscle that is benifical,

While the nervous system does create some restraints to range of motion, the muscles actually create others (by their length and elasticity). For those of us with the latter restraints as our limiting factor, that's what stretching is for. You're no longer really talking about stretching, but about gaining range of motion. Related, but not the same thing.

 

[skribs]

While the nervous system does create some restraints to range of motion, the muscles actually create others (by their length and elasticity). For those of us with the latter restraints as our limiting factor, that's what stretching is for. You're no longer really talking about stretching, but about gaining range of motion. Related, but not the same thing.

How are they different, by your definition?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I definitely wouldn't use something like that. My entire perspective on sweeps is that it's not a brute strength technique. Sweeps take advantage of the opponent's weak root and imbalance. Better time would be spent to learning how to recognize when this exists and developing the timing.

You have to learn how to create 1000 lb force first before you can learn how to use 4 oz force to deal with 1000 lb. Many people try to by pass the 1st step training and end with "only theory".

Here is a single head training for foot sweep.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think the point of that training is to be able to sweep even someone who is resisting the sweep (and knows how). It's counter to my approach and training, but I see that philosophy in a lot of the comments John shares from his instructor(s). And there's a certain brute elegance to it.

I've never seen a sweep that uses brute force like that in real life application

 

[JowGaWolf]

You have to learn how to create 1000 lb force first before you can learn how to use 4 oz force to deal with 1000 lb. Many people try to by pass the 1st step training and end with "only theory".

Here is a single head training for foot sweep.

I have tons of video with effective sweeps and i can tell you right off the back I'm not creating 1000lb force with any of my sweeps. If I could generate that much force with a sweep then I would just opt to kick your leg and smash it with 1000lb of force. The picture that you show with the guy kicking the stick and stone looks more like a soft technique and not a sweep. For example, if I want to pick up your leg by using my leg, then my leg must be strong enough to lift the weight of your leg. That doesn't look like training for a sweep. It looks similar to what I was doing with the heavy bag when i was flipping it using a similar motion. To me these are foot hooks.that lift.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I have tons of video with effective sweeps and i can tell you right off the back I'm not creating 1000lb force with any of my sweeps. If I could generate that much force with a sweep then I would just opt to kick your leg and smash it with 1000lb of force. The picture that you show with the guy kicking the stick and stone looks more like a soft technique and not a sweep. For example, if I want to pick up your leg by using my leg, then my leg must be strong enough to lift the weight of your leg. That doesn't look like training for a sweep. It looks similar to what I was doing with the heavy bag when i was flipping it using a similar motion. To me these are foot hooks.that lift.

Yeah, 1000lb of force is 4448.22 newtons, which is enough force to break a human femur. If you could generate that much force (bearing in mind you would also suffer a similar force) I wouldn't be worried about sweeping a leg.....

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To me these are foot hooks.that lift.

If you start from a shin bite by locking your instep behind your opponent's ankle. After that whether you want to use soft sweep such as:

1. horizontal scoop,
2. 45 degree upward scoop,
3. vertical sticky kick.

will be up to you. If you generate speed and power before your leg contacts your opponent's leg (your foot sweep starts before the shin bite), that will be a hard sweep.

So soft sweep, or hard sweep depends on when do you start your power generation.

 

[jobo]

How are they different, by your definition?

I think he means, that dynamic stretching is to warm the mMuscle and fill it full of blood, both of which will make it more eleastic, but it won't alter your Actual range of motion, in the long term , That needs static streyching

 

[jobo]

While the nervous system does create some restraints to range of motion, the muscles actually create others (by their length and elasticity). For those of us with the latter restraints as our limiting factor, that's what stretching is for. You're no longer really talking about stretching, but about gaining range of motion. Related, but not the same thing.

Eer, it's said that under general anesthesia thAt every one Is as supple as a new born baby, alcohol also works quite well as its depressed the serious system, I'm not saying that inelastic muscles army an issue, just that they are not the main issue, as the never get to stretch as theNervious system won't let them And at least generally you can't lengthen muscles, damaged muscles perhaps, but you can stretch your hamstring for ever, it will never get any longer, it's fixed at either end and that's it's lengh,, but you can get the ns, to give a greater range of motion

 

[jobo]

You have to learn how to create 1000 lb force first before you can learn how to use 4 oz force to deal with 1000 lb. Many people try to by pass the 1st step training and end with "only theory".

Here is a single head training for foot sweep.

If you were generatinga,1000 lbs of force, then that but on the end would weight a thousand pounds, where I doubt it weighs 100lbs

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you were generatinga,1000 lbs of force, then that but on the end would weight a thousand pounds, where I doubt it weighs 100lbs

If you are as rich as Bill Gate, you don't need to borrow money.

 

[dvcochran]

Well no, not really, light people can be faster over a few feet, theY can also change direction more quickly, but if the big guy has TRAined his legs to run, he will almost certainly be quicker Over say 50 yards

It's sprint training that matters and then the power to weight ratio

How many “big” Olympic sprinter have you ever seen?