Thoughts on belt testing fees

[skribs]

However if they don't start academic education until 5 or 6 because educational experts don't consider their motor skills and cognitive functions up to formal education until then, why take such young children in martial arts classes?
What age do you start giving them black belts?

When they complete the curriculum. Youngest we've had was 8, but most are at least 10-11.

A lot of kids go to pre-K schooling. A lot more are homeschooled before Kindergarten. There's lots of activities for younger kids to develop motor skills and cognitive functions. Personally, I was capable of doing the alphabet forwards and backwards when I was 2 years old. Then you've got kids like this:

That kid is 5, not 4, but you don't get that good instantly.

 

[Tez3]

A lot of kids go to pre-K schooling. A lot more are homeschooled before Kindergarten. There's lots of activities for younger kids to develop motor skills and cognitive functions. Personally, I was capable of doing the alphabet forwards and backwards when I was 2 years old. Then you've got kids like this:

Basically you take 'elite' children, those with parents who are willing to pay for schooling and martial arts etc.

 

[skribs]

Basically you take 'elite' children, those with parents who are willing to pay for schooling and martial arts etc.

You're ignoring that some of these were home-schooled. But yes, we only take students who's parents are willing to pay for martial arts. That's kind of the point. If they weren't willing to pay, we wouldn't be able to provide the service.

 

[JR 137]

Basically you take 'elite' children, those with parents who are willing to pay for schooling and martial arts etc.

Not the most fair assessment. The school is a business, and as such needs to make money. It’s not a free, community service type place. Just because they’re charging and making a profit while not letting some in for free doesn’t mean they’re doing anything wrong. Everyone where I train pays. Without it, the doors don’t stay open.

Parents paying for their kids doesn’t make them “elite.” Some of the parents (and adults) where I train are struggling financially, yet training is a priority that they make room for in their budget. Everyone’s got their priorities.

 

[Buka]

One of my oldest, dearest friends here has four kids. His only son, James, never spoke one word until he was almost six.

When I asked my buddy about his son he told me “I figure he has nothing to say yet.”

And I’m thinking he has no idea what he’s dealing with, or perhaps more appropriately NOT dealing with.

James graduated college last year, has a big shot job with the state and now has decided to go to medical school.

Life sure is a trip sometimes.

 

[JR 137]

One of my oldest, dearest friends here has four kids. His only son, James, never spoke one word until he was almost six.

When I asked my buddy about his son he told me “I figure he has nothing to say yet.”

And I’m thinking he has no idea what he’s dealing with, or perhaps more appropriately NOT dealing with.

James graduated college last year, has a big shot job with the state and now has decided to go to medical school.

Life sure is a trip sometimes.

Some of my most gifted students were autistic. It’s quite common for people with autism to have very high intelligence. The issues with people with autism are mainly social, not cognitive.

We have a few autistic adults in our dojo. From what I know of the ones whose parents train there as well, they had a lot of social and psychological issues growing up. Their parents claim karate helped immeasurably, and it was one of the few places they really came out of their shell and were happy.

When I first met them, they seemed socially awkward for a little while. Nothing serious, just a little odd. It wasn’t until a few months or so that I found out they are autistic. It wasn’t hidden by any means, but it just wasn’t the topic of conversation. When I found out, I just thought “well now it all makes sense.” They’re the few adults I know who are diagnosed autistic. The rest are kids and teens.

Something I was told in grad school for education - if you know 100 people with autism, then you know 100 people with autism; they don’t fall into very many similarities. While there’s a central theme, the way the individuals present is quite varied. Definitely true in my experience. There’s a huge range within autism, hence it being called the spectrum.

 

[dvcochran]

Some of my most gifted students were autistic. It’s quite common for people with autism to have very high intelligence. The issues with people with autism are mainly social, not cognitive.

We have a few autistic adults in our dojo. From what I know of the ones whose parents train there as well, they had a lot of social and psychological issues growing up. Their parents claim karate helped immeasurably, and it was one of the few places they really came out of their shell and were happy.

When I first met them, they seemed socially awkward for a little while. Nothing serious, just a little odd. It wasn’t until a few months or so that I found out they are autistic. It wasn’t hidden by any means, but it just wasn’t the topic of conversation. When I found out, I just thought “well now it all makes sense.” They’re the few adults I know who are diagnosed autistic. The rest are kids and teens.

Something I was told in grad school for education - if you know 100 people with autism, then you know 100 people with autism; they don’t fall into very many similarities. While there’s a central theme, the way the individuals present is quite varied. Definitely true in my experience. There’s a huge range within autism, hence it being called the spectrum.

In our small town, especially in the 80's, people could really put an exclamation point on things. Even when they had the best of intentions. I remember getting some scathing questions from other parents early on. Mikey was quite withdrawn and very hard to engage. Many times parents felt he was getting preferential treatment and to be honest he may have been at times. But after a short time he found his groove and gelled with the rest of the class very well. Still very quiet and non-emotional, some of which was due to the medication I think. After a couple of years you could see zero social ques or anything. Just a normal, happy kid. Hard working scrapper too.

 

[skribs]

Some of my most gifted students were autistic. It’s quite common for people with autism to have very high intelligence. The issues with people with autism are mainly social, not cognitive.

We have a few autistic adults in our dojo. From what I know of the ones whose parents train there as well, they had a lot of social and psychological issues growing up. Their parents claim karate helped immeasurably, and it was one of the few places they really came out of their shell and were happy.

When I first met them, they seemed socially awkward for a little while. Nothing serious, just a little odd. It wasn’t until a few months or so that I found out they are autistic. It wasn’t hidden by any means, but it just wasn’t the topic of conversation. When I found out, I just thought “well now it all makes sense.” They’re the few adults I know who are diagnosed autistic. The rest are kids and teens.

Something I was told in grad school for education - if you know 100 people with autism, then you know 100 people with autism; they don’t fall into very many similarities. While there’s a central theme, the way the individuals present is quite varied. Definitely true in my experience. There’s a huge range within autism, hence it being called the spectrum.

There's one adult at my dojang who I can't help but wonder if he's mildly autistic. But he is insanely smart, devilishly hansom, incredibly talented...oh crap, you guys know who I'm talking about, don't you?

 

[JR 137]

There's one adult at my dojang who I can't help but wonder if he's mildly autistic. But he is insanely smart, devilishly hansom, incredibly talented...oh crap, you guys know who I'm talking about, don't you?

I don’t train at your dojo

 

[Tez3]

Not the most fair assessment. The school is a business, and as such needs to make money.

and that is exactly my point, taking children as young as 3 and 4 is for business reasons because that's where the money is considered to be.

You're ignoring that some of these were home-schooled. But yes, we only take students who's parents are willing to pay for martial arts. That's kind of the point. If they weren't willing to pay, we wouldn't be able to provide the service.

again my point is exactly that you are a business and not necessarily taking young children in for their good rather the good of the business.

 

[skribs]

again my point is exactly that you are a business and not necessarily taking young children in for their good rather the good of the business.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Tez3]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

If you read it properly I said 'necessarily', you can't disagree that many places take children in because they make the money, plenty of people have said it on MT as well. In fact it's been suggested to various posters that they take children classes because of that very point, they make money.

 

[skribs]

If you read it properly I said 'necessarily', you can't disagree that many places take children in because they make the money, plenty of people have said it on MT as well. In fact it's been suggested to various posters that they take children classes because of that very point, they make money.

When you start the statement with "my point is that you..." it's reasonable to assume this is directed at me, and not a generalized statement.

 

[Tez3]

When you start the statement with "my point is that you..." it's reasonable to assume this is directed at me, and not a generalized statement.

My point was directed at you, my meaning was that being a business doesn't necessarily mean that the interests of children is the first priority. You are probably keen to see the children learn etc, however are you an employer doing this for the money of an owner doing it for money? Teaching for money isn't something that's wrong of course but it changes the dynamic of the class, when you have to have a specific number of students in a class to pay your wages. You have to satisfy your customers so they continue paying rather than staying with what you want to teach. Being a business brings compromises that being a non profit organisation doesn't have to consider, one of those is the age of the children in the class.

 

[skribs]

My point was directed at you, my meaning was that being a business doesn't necessarily mean that the interests of children is the first priority. You are probably keen to see the children learn etc, however are you an employer doing this for the money of an owner doing it for money? Teaching for money isn't something that's wrong of course but it changes the dynamic of the class, when you have to have a specific number of students in a class to pay your wages. You have to satisfy your customers so they continue paying rather than staying with what you want to teach. Being a business brings compromises that being a non profit organisation doesn't have to consider, one of those is the age of the children in the class.

Please tell me more about my mindset and my thoughts. I don't know them as well as you do.

 

[Tez3]

Please tell me more about my mindset and my thoughts. I don't know them as well as you do.

Show me where I was referring to you personally. You are mixing up the generic 'you' with the personal you. I asked you a question which you choose not to answer, fair enough but no where was I saying anything about your mindset and thoughts.

What I said is quite true about the business model v the non profit model, there are things you ( generic you) have to think about when you ( generic you) run a business that you ( generic you...do I have to do this every time?) don't have to consider when you ( generic you) run a club or class as a non profit.

My point was directed at you, my meaning was that being a business doesn't necessarily mean that the interests of children is the first priority.(you can't deny the truth of this, it is a neutral statement, not saying you are either wrong or right) You are probably keen to see the children learn etc, however are you an employer doing this for the money of an owner doing it for money? (question, to you personally) Teaching for money isn't something that's wrong of course but it changes the dynamic of the class, when you have to have a specific number of students in a class to pay your wages. You have to satisfy your customers so they continue paying rather than staying with what you want to teach. ( generic you, not you personally) Being a business brings compromises that being a non profit organisation doesn't have to consider, one of those is the age of the children in the class.

 

[skribs]

Show me where I was referring to you personally. You are mixing up the generic 'you' with the personal you. I asked you a question which you choose not to answer, fair enough but no where was I saying anything about your mindset and thoughts.

What I said is quite true about the business model v the non profit model, there are things you ( generic you) have to think about when you ( generic you) run a business that you ( generic you...do I have to do this every time?) don't have to consider when you ( generic you) run a club or class as a non profit.

Oh I see. This is another one of those threads where you spout off a bunch of unfair criticisms to get someone riled up, and then start pulling the "I didn't say that" crap and trying to make it sound like you're just a neutral observer. Just more of Tez being a bully.

You opened with "My point was directed at you". So you made it very clear you were talking to me. Especially since you were clarifying whether or not your post was directed at me. Are you telling me now that after telling me it was directed at me, you then switched the generic "you"? Give me a break. It would take someone of very low intelligence to fall for your mind games.

 

[Tez3]

Oh I see. This is another one of those threads where you spout off a bunch of unfair criticisms to get someone riled up, and then start pulling the "I didn't say that" crap and trying to make it sound like you're just a neutral observer. Just more of Tez being a bully.

You opened with "My point was directed at you". So you made it very clear you were talking to me. Especially since you were clarifying whether or not your post was directed at me. Are you telling me now that after telling me it was directed at me, you then switched the generic "you"? Give me a break. It would take someone of very low intelligence to fall for your mind games.

I see you are going off on one again, I will leave you to your tantrum.

Yes I made it very clear I was making a point to you but you have also made it very clear that you don't read my comments and actually understand what I'm talking about instead choosing to take it as an insult when no insult was offered.
I pointed out the bits that were directed at you and pointed out the bits that were the generic you ( you didn't read the quote of my post did you?)

Mind games? that is quite pathetic actually, you are somewhat paranoid if you think I would be bothered playing 'mind game's with you. You are constantly on the defence and very quick to take offence. It's very tiresome.

 

[skribs]

I see you are going off on one again, I will leave you to your tantrum.

Yes I made it very clear I was making a point to you but you have also made it very clear that you don't read my comments and actually understand what I'm talking about instead choosing to take it as an insult when no insult was offered.
I pointed out the bits that were directed at you and pointed out the bits that were the generic you ( you didn't read the quote of my post did you?)

Mind games? that is quite pathetic actually, you are somewhat paranoid if you think I would be bothered playing 'mind game's with you. You are constantly on the defence and very quick to take offence. It's very tiresome.

Rile someone up, then when they call you on it, you play the victim.

The only thing that bugs me is that since you're experienced in martial arts, it means someone actually taught a bully how to fight.

 

[Tez3]

Rile someone up, then when they call you on it, you play the victim.

The only thing that bugs me is that since you're experienced in martial arts, it means someone actually taught a bully how to fight.

Oh lord give me strength, I am not a victim of anything, I am not playing the victim and I was pointing out something that is obvious to most people ie someone who owns a martial arts business has different priorities and concerns from someone who runs martial arts classes not for profit. The thread after all is about belt testing fees, a business is looking to make a profit in all the ways it can from taking very small children to selling equipment. Grading fees can be a big part of a businesses income.



You aren't being bullied, you are merely miffed because you want to be.