Thoughts on belt testing fees

[dvcochran]

@WaterGal @dvcochran

I just looked it up, and while I couldn't find it from the Kukkiwon site directly, I found $70 to be quoted from quite a few different forums and blogs as the price, and it goes up by varying amounts after that.

There are multiple levels of the instructor and coach (used to be called trainer) courses. If it has not changed coaches go A through E. There used to be instructor and master instructor courses.
If I had to guess that price is the 1st course for one or both types. Travel/food/lodging cost more than the course does for most folks.

What was your source?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah, we've probably had this conversation before, we've had a lot of great conversations.

Wallace was down the dojo one day and he pointed out something to me. He said "the first time you teach a white belt how to side kick he throws a nearly perfect hook kick." And I'm thinking to myself "say what?" And he says "call one of those new white belts over here." So, one comes over. He tells the kid to throw a side kick, which he does. As we all know, white belts have little control over their body movement, and usually little to no flexibility. The kid, all excited that this guy in our dojo calls on him, snaps out a side kick, and instead of bringing that leg back to position - what many call chambering or re-chambering, instead the kid's lower leg retracts with the heel coming back towards the butt) "Wallace says, "See that, nearly perfect hook kick."

Wallace always said that a hook kick is a thrown sidekick, meant to miss towards the toe side of the foot - and then the heel snaps back towards your butt, like a white belt who doesn't know how to really sidekick - hitting the opponent in the face.

And I always thought to myself, "son of a gun, ain't that interesting?"

And now I know what the heck a hook kick is.

 

[dvcochran]

Yeah, we've probably had this conversation before, we've had a lot of great conversations.

Wallace was down the dojo one day and he pointed out something to me. He said "the first time you teach a white belt how to side kick he throws a nearly perfect hook kick." And I'm thinking to myself "say what?" And he says "call one of those new white belts over here." So, one comes over. He tells the kid to throw a side kick, which he does. As we all know, white belts have little control over their body movement, and usually little to no flexibility. The kid, all excited that this guy in our dojo calls on him, snaps out a side kick, and instead of bringing that leg back to position - what many call chambering or re-chambering, instead the kid's lower leg retracts with the heel coming back towards the butt) "Wallace says, "See that, nearly perfect hook kick."

Wallace always said that a hook kick is a thrown sidekick, meant to miss towards the toe side of the foot - and then the heel snaps back towards your butt, like a white belt who doesn't know how to really sidekick - hitting the opponent in the face.

And I always thought to myself, "son of a gun, ain't that interesting?"

That is a great way to explain the kick.
I have also used the expression that the power and effectiveness is on the negative side of the arc. Nerdy, I know. In other words, you can either wallop the chin with the heel or pull the head back with the foot.

 

[JR 137]

Some days, I'm not old enough for that.

I initially hit agree, but I changed it to like. By agree, I was thinking me too. But then I thought it would be interpreted as agreeing you’re not old enough.

And now I just confused myself

 

[skribs]

There are multiple levels of the instructor and coach (used to be called trainer) courses. If it has not changed coaches go A through E. There used to be instructor and master instructor courses.
If I had to guess that price is the 1st course for one or both types. Travel/food/lodging cost more than the course does for most folks.

What was your source?

Uh...I think we're talking about 2 different things. That was black belt ranks, not instructor and master certifications.

FAQs is my source, but I also found an old post from 2003 on here, some posts on reddit, quora, and other sites where the answers were "$70" as far as how much KKW gets for your 1st dan certificate.

 

[dvcochran]

Uh...I think we're talking about 2 different things. That was black belt ranks, not instructor and master certifications.

FAQs is my source, but I also found an old post from 2003 on here, some posts on reddit, quora, and other sites where the answers were "$70" as far as how much KKW gets for your 1st dan certificate.

My mistake. I saw where others also said $70 so I expect that is correct.

 

[Buka]

I think the youngest we ever mixed with adults was 13 years old. And that's a bad mismatch in almost all cases in grappling.

I didn’t take kids under the age of eleven. But there were exceptions.
Did you ever watch the TV show Survivor? There’s a player who’s been on that show multiple times, Boston Rob.

His parents are friends of my family and he’s the nephew of my best friend since childhood and nephew of my first black belt.

He came when he was six. And the smallest six year old I’ve ever seen to this day.
He trained with both the kids and adult classes. It was almost like he was a mascot.

But he did fantastic. Nice little boy, heck of a fighter.

 

[skribs]

I didn’t take kids under the age of eleven. But there were exceptions.
Did you ever watch the TV show Survivor? There’s a player who’s been on that show multiple times, Boston Rob.

His parents are friends of my family and he’s the nephew of my best friend since childhood and nephew of my first black belt.

He came when he was six. And the smallest six year old I’ve ever seen to this day.
He trained with both the kids and adult classes. It was almost like he was a mascot.

But he did fantastic. Nice little boy, heck of a fighter.

I remember practicing my hand grabs against a small 6 year old in family class one day. It's the type of technique where you pull their arm up and spin under their arm to set it up. I had to crouch down like in a Shaolin form to do my handgrabs on him.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I didn’t take kids under the age of eleven. But there were exceptions.
Did you ever watch the TV show Survivor? There’s a player who’s been on that show multiple times, Boston Rob.

His parents are friends of my family and he’s the nephew of my best friend since childhood and nephew of my first black belt.

He came when he was six. And the smallest six year old I’ve ever seen to this day.
He trained with both the kids and adult classes. It was almost like he was a mascot.

But he did fantastic. Nice little boy, heck of a fighter.

There are some kids I miss from back when I taught kids. Not many, but there are some. Some because they were great to teach, and some because they were just adorable kids and nice to have around.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I remember practicing my hand grabs against a small 6 year old in family class one day. It's the type of technique where you pull their arm up and spin under their arm to set it up. I had to crouch down like in a Shaolin form to do my handgrabs on him.

Sounds like me practicing with the Hobbit.

 

[dvcochran]

There are some kids I miss from back when I taught kids. Not many, but there are some. Some because they were great to teach, and some because they were just adorable kids and nice to have around.

The mother of a 4 year old came to the school and talked to me about her child with Autism. She had been told he would never be able to go to regular public school. We had a Long talk about her son and mutually agreed to let him a try a few classes just to see how it would go. I had never taken in a 4 year old. Mikey had barely spoke a word ever and was totally disconnected. Sadly, they had started him on medications.
The first class was 'easy' and he did not do a great deal but followed directions well and was not afraid. Second class was better, third class was better than the last. I met with his mom again and said I think she should let him try, cautioning her that the material and expectation would get progressively greater.
It was one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen watching Mikey blossom. He responded to every aspect of class. By the end of the first year he would have a conversation with you better than many adults would. He was off all his medication before he turned 6. He was/is excellent in his technique and absorbed material like a sponge.
When he was 7 he went to his first AAU tournament, and cleaned house with three golds. Along with the great support he got form his parents, Mikey turned into a 'normal', healthy, happy kid with exception talent. Mikey grew into an excellent adult who also went into the engineering field, is married with children, and now lives in Texas.
Mike still trains and we speak several times a year.
Some of by best MA's memories.

 

[skribs]

The mother of a 4 year old came to the school and talked to me about her child with Autism. She had been told he would never be able to go to regular public school. We had a Long talk about her son and mutually agreed to let him a try a few classes just to see how it would go. I had never taken in a 4 year old. Mikey had barely spoke a word ever and was totally disconnected. Sadly, they had started him on medications.
The first class was 'easy' and he did not do a great deal but followed directions well and was not afraid. Second class was better, third class was better than the last. I met with his mom again and said I think she should let him try, cautioning her that the material and expectation would get progressively greater.
It was one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen watching Mikey blossom. He responded to every aspect of class. By the end of the first year he would have a conversation with you better than many adults would. He was off all his medication before he turned 6. He was/is excellent in his technique and absorbed material like a sponge.
When he was 7 he went to his first AAU tournament, and cleaned house with three golds. Along with the great support he got form his parents, Mikey turned into a 'normal', healthy, happy kid with exception talent. Mikey grew into an excellent adult who also went into the engineering field, is married with children, and now lives in Texas.
Mike still trains and we speak several times a year.
Some of by best MA's memories.

Unfortunately, that's not how it always goes. We had one kid who was nonverbal when he started, and barely speaks now. When he counts, he used to just count "2...2...2...2...2..." Now he counts "2...3...2...3...2...3..."

Anyway, this guy is do defiant and stubborn. He likes playing the games, but not the actual martial arts training. So we'll do the warmup where they line up to kick a target, and he's fine with that. But after we sit down and stretch, he doesn't want to stand up. He'll do the punches and kicks, but as soon as we move onto blocks he'll just put his hands over his ears and stop doing anything at all.

A few weeks ago, this kid doesn't even come into class. His brother goes in, but he wants to sit with his Mom. Well, my Master set up a game, and that's when he wanted in. Unfortunately, one of the other instructors didn't realize he had been sitting out (she thought he had just gone to the bathroom), so she let him come in. As soon as the game was over, he went right back to sit with his Mom. I let the other instructor know what was going on, as well as the Master's wife (since the Master was still leading). He tried to do that again another day. He got kicked out early on because he wouldn't participate. He tried to come in at the end of class (just walk in without permission) and I made him sit out. He ended up crying, but if you don't put in the work you don't get to play the games.

The funny thing is whenever I've kicked a kid out because they're not listening or following the rules, the parents tend to thank me after class. I guess being a martial arts instructor is different than being a schoolteacher, where if you discipline a kid the parents come in breathing fire and brimstone that you would dare punish their perfect little angel.

But it sounds like Mikey is completely different from this kid. We've got some in that age that are a delight to work with. But man, some of them can be frustrating!

 

[Tez3]

She had been told he would never be able to go to regular public school.

Do you have SEN ( special educational needs) assessments which allow children to go to school by making any necessary arrangements in the school ie one to one helpers etc?

Is putting autistic children on meds a normal thing? I've known a lot of autistic children from one activity or another but never on any meds just for autism.

 

[Tez3]

Anyway, this guy is do defiant and stubborn. He likes playing the games, but not the actual martial arts training.

How old is this child?

 

[skribs]

How old is this child?

4.

We have a lot of 4 year olds that don't exhibit this behavior, though.

 

[Tez3]

4.

We have a lot of 4 year olds that don't exhibit this behavior, though.

Four year olds are toddlers really, much too young for formal classes in anything.

 

[dvcochran]

Do you have SEN ( special educational needs) assessments which allow children to go to school by making any necessary arrangements in the school ie one to one helpers etc?

Is putting autistic children on meds a normal thing? I've known a lot of autistic children from one activity or another but never on any meds just for autism.

This was in the late 80's. It was a time when the word autistic was not even commonly used. Mikey was classified mentally retarded.
I imagine the school system has gotten better at accommodating special needs kids. I do not know it we have SEN in our systems. Honestly, I assumed medication was a normal part of treatment. Again, I do not know for certain and I hope things have changed in that respect.

 

[skribs]

Four year olds are toddlers really, much too young for formal classes in anything.

Most of our 4 year olds do fine. I wanna say probably around 25% of our black belts started at 4.

 

[Tez3]

Most of our 4 year olds do fine. I wanna say probably around 25% of our black belts started at 4.

However if they don't start academic education until 5 or 6 because educational experts don't consider their motor skills and cognitive functions up to formal education until then, why take such young children in martial arts classes?
What age do you start giving them black belts?

 

[Tez3]

Mikey was classified mentally retarded.

Poor kid, I'm glad things worked out though. Autism isn't new though, first recognised in 1910 and Asperger's in 1944. The first school for autistic children here in the UK was set up in the 1970s, my son was at school in the 70s and there were autistic children at the same school.