This is something I never put thought into

[loki09789]

I would like to keep this discussion mature please

I came across this piece during a yahoo search 'self defense' topic search. I never put much thought into it before, but this piece got me thinking...

"Learning self-defense would go a long way toward emancipating gay men from their image -- often internalized -- of cringing weakness. Call it Pink Pistols: sponsoring gay shooting courses and helping urban homosexuals obtain licenses to carry -- in a way that gets as much publicity as possible -- might do more to prevent gay-bashings than a hate-crime law.
By Jonathan Rauch"

Translate this to martial arts/non firearms defensive training:

What factors would having an openly gay student, teen age or otherwise, create for a private business/teacher?

I know the guidelines as an English teacher in a public school are. I know that there is a higher level of administration that wrote and supports/enforces the policies.

But, as a private instructor, with rent and other concerns, what issues might come up, and how would an instructor deal with those issues? Or is it the same thing as having a handicap, Middle-Eastern, or any other "different" student join the class.

PLEASE don't get inflamed and think that I am assuming that the almighty dollar would be the bottom line for the decision, but realistically it is a factor if you end up with ten or twenty students who threaten to leave becaue of homophobia. What customs/routines might have to be changed/eliminated/ignored because of the new dynamic?

As instructors, these are circumstances that might or have occurred and I am just curious to the responses.

Paul Martin

 

[dearnis.com]

Same issues as any other student. Interact in the mat on a positive manner and there are no issues. Of course I don't teach commercially...
As long as the student can play well with others, and I don't have concerns about student negligence/recklessness or criminal background it really doesnt matter. But I would expect a measure of discretion about their private choices; in other words while they certainly shouldn't feel ashamed or need to hide who they are they also should not interpret martial arts training as a forum to air their issues or concerns.

 

[markulous]

Prejudice is everywhere. I personally wouldn't care if the person is gay, straight, black, white, etc. I think if the students had an issue about that and they were that adamant to quit I would say "see ya". If I were the teacher I would explain to them that the person is human just like them. If they can't see past the student being gay then they are closed-minded and don't need to be there anyway. If the gay guy is an complete ***hole then that's a different story. But atleast give him the chance to see if he is an allright guy.

Ok I am done rambling.

 

[Thesemindz]

I wouldn't have any problem with working out with or teaching a homosexual student, but he would be required to behave according to the same standards as everyone else. That means being respectuful in word and deed. As long as the instructor treats every student with the same respect, than I don't think it would be a problem.

-Rob

 

[Danny]

None issue. If someone doesn't like it they are welcome to leave. Heck my instructor used to be a model, and since his model friends were mostly gay they'd go to a gay bar for a drink after work. He spent more time in gay bars then some gay men. Only thing that might bother me would be if the guy tried to hit on another guy at the school, but the atmosphere at the school is so plutonic I can't see that ever being an issue. Hasn't been an issue between guys and girls.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Everyone walking through the door should get treated the same way.

I ask all of them the same questions and give them the attention.

I knew of some guys that were gay and also trained. They were good. Most people never knew about that side of their life. Just like most people never knew about anyone else who did not show up with a wife on thier arm.

My Opinion
:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Well, as an instructor, I try to make out with all of my students, regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference. That way, no one will feel left out. :rofl:

Oh yea....I am supposed to keep it mature (darn!)

In all seriousness, if everyone is held by equal standards of classroom behavior, then there are no problems. I have personally never had the experience of having a homosexual student in my class. I have a couple of acquantiance/friends who are homosexual, and socially it tends to work the way I imagine it would work in a class. Basically, everyone is treated with the same standards.

I try to be an equal opportunity offendor, anyhow.

 

[Makalakumu]

Originally posted by Danny
Only thing that might bother me would be if the guy tried to hit on another guy at the school, but the atmosphere at the school is so plutonic I can't see that ever being an issue.

I love it when the atmosphere in the Dojo is plutonic, then we know that it is being done right...

By the way, has anyone ever had an openly gay MA instructor?

 

[loki09789]

I was expecting about this type of response: Those who would be fair and equitable would say so... those who wouldn't, well who is going to say that they would be a gay basher/racist... to a potential student. Most of that stuff tends to be thinly or thickly covered with justification and excuse.

Thank you for confirming my faith in man (as a race of being not to be gender bias.... jeez, it's hard just to talk now a days )

Paul M.

 

[Zepp]

As a student, I wouldn't have a problem with a gay training partner at all, so long as they respect the same boundaries as everyone else is supposed to.

I think this subject was brought up once before somewhere in the Grappling forum.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I have never trained with or been instructed by a gay person,but let me share a closely related experience. In grade school,I was the guy who wouldn't fight back and became a daily target for the local bullies.Thats when Mom and Dad insisted that I learn to fight back and enrolled me into the local Kenpo school. The phisical attacks and public ridicule continued through Jr.High school. The ridicule was the worst part,I was called everything you could possibly think of and when people started calling me "gay", it stuck(of course I am not). I had to live with that until I had enough confidense to finally stand up for myself. That occured the last few weeks of seventh grade.The most popular kid in my grade level(and one of the biggest) started on me in front of what seemed to be the entire school and many of the bystanders joined him,that was it,I couldn't hold back any longer.While this jerk was looking away, I hit him with a jumping spinning back kick that broke several ribs!Looking at him on the ground and noticing the crowd in total shock,I attacked him unmercifully.Several kids pulled me off him since he was bleeding so badly.I expected to get killed by the rest of them,but no one else laid a hand on me and several of them helped me escape from the gang of teachers,councilors and princibles that were comming that way.I think a gay student,especially one who has lived through such a terrible daily experience as I have, has a huge potential of being one of you best fighters!

 

[loki09789]

"Learning self-defense would go a long way toward emancipating gay men from their image -- often internalized -- of cringing weakness."

Sort of relates to the idea that you mentioned in the previous post. There seems to be a perception that gay means wimp... according to the article even from within the gay community. As this goes on, one thing that might keep a potential student, motivated by the need to defend themselves from gay bashing or what ever would be the possibility of being the target of it in the school as well. What if it were a High School age person who runs into the very bullies he faces at school. Is this opportunity to teach tolerance, or chemistry for disaster?

Being that far out of the mainstream, along with any other difference that might make you stand out must make you very gun shy and leary of the mainstream community. I wonder if there are gays only self defense classes, or the like in other groups that can be targeted.

Paul

 

[Black Bear]

Our school sublets to a rogue Polish kyuokushinkai ex-mil guy. He has a whole bunch of middle-eastern muslim guys as students. I don't recall the sect, but they've got the beards and stop class and pray at some set time every day, so I'm thinking, pretty orthodox. They get along fine with everyone. I mentioned this on a board, and some American guy got really keyed up saying I should be "watching these guys" and stuff.

I figure if anyone should be learning self-defense it should be these guys. I mean, around 9/11 they probably had people throwing bricks through their window with nasty messages.

As for gays, I don't see why other students would know, or would need to know. It's a personal matter, and it's up to the guy to disclose it if they wish. Of course when you have a bunch of sweaty guys rolling around hugging, and slapping each others' *** in congratulation, the gay jokes come a mile a minute. But we'd clean up ship real quick if it was really offending someone.