Understanding Instructor Immaturity

[Dan G]

Great post from Sharp Phil, analytical, hits the mark, and also keeps positive... the redeeming feature of immaturity is that is that time and experience bring the opportunity for improvement and maturity. (Doesn't mean a student should wait around for it to happen though)

The post does a good job of highlighting the character issues that any martial artist should be aware of as they develop.

Dan

 

[theletch1]

Wow, Phil, seems like you've trained with my first instructor. Had he not embodied all (and I mean all) of the attributes you put forth I'd never have gone looking for my current style and instructor...so, I suppose it all worked out for the best.

Ever notice how a lot of the folks that fall into this catagory have schools that continue over time but never seem to have any students (or many at least) that make it past yellow belt? Prospective students come in, are enamoured by the instructors hype, confuse bravado/ego for ability, sign up train for a while, make that first promotion, begin to talk to others in the MA community and realize that ALL instructors aren't like that and move on.

 

[Don Roley]

How about this warning sign....

A person has a change in personality for a short while. I mean the guy sometimes acts like a troll on the internet, or gets angry and spitefull. Those type of things are kind of explained away with the excuse that the person, 'really is not like that.'

I disagree. I know people act one way when they think another. I just can't tell every last idiot I know that they are an idiot or I would have too many troubles. We have all seen it. We have all done it.

So people who act nice may not be nice. It may all be an act.

So maybe the blow ups on line or the person they turn into when mad or drunk is the person when they forget to act.

I recently was remembering a heated exchange I had with Robert Carver from Budoseek. I fouled up and he took me to task over the matter. But he never got nuts or lost control. Even though there was a very good reason I gave him for not liking me, he never took the argument to the personal level.

Compare that with all the folks who get just a little bit of prodding and all their nice mannerisms go out the window. People say that they were prodded into it. But if that person was not there under all the pleasent words, how could they turn into it?

I kind of like snarky people who have a reputation for telling stupid people that they are stupid. I know there is no act with them. They are not trying to tell me what they think I want to hear. They do not make many friends, but they are friends whom you always know are being honest with you.

Just a thought.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

How about this warning sign....

So people who act nice may not be nice. It may all be an act.

So maybe the blow ups on line or the person they turn into when mad or drunk is the person when they forget to act.

I kind of like snarky people who have a reputation for telling stupid people that they are stupid. I know there is no act with them. They are not trying to tell me what they think I want to hear. They do not make many friends, but they are friends whom you always know are being honest with you.

Just a thought.

So true. As Robert Heinlein wrote in "Podkayne of Mars"; "... never trust a person who's nice all the time...". Nice all the time is an act, and IMHO, the other person has a true agenda that they're not letting you see. Can you say passive agressive?

I think your point cuts to the chase about the difference between character and personality - personality being "charm", character substance.

However, if the "snarky" people of which you write are constantly abrasive and see most others than themselves as "idiots" - than the problem is with them regardless of their ability to cut through B.S.. I think the Golden Mean is best. You are up front when necessary but don't needlessly pick quarrels or have to run others down constantly.

 

[arnisador]

I've always said that if your teaching doesn't meet disapproval from someone, you're doing something wrong. You're too bland to offend and so you're too bland to reach the heights you really could with those who do appreciate your teaching style.

 

[Loki]

I'm not renewing anything here.

GREAT POST!!

Thanks for making it easier to understand the difference between a good instructor and a bad instructor.

~ Loki

 

[Ceicei]

I've always said that if your teaching doesn't meet disapproval from someone, you're doing something wrong. You're too bland to offend and so you're too bland to reach the heights you really could with those who do appreciate your teaching style.

Interesting view. I'll have to think that over some more. How much rocking the boat is good and how much is too much?

- Ceicei

 

[theletch1]

Interesting view. I'll have to think that over some more. How much rocking the boat is good and how much is too much?

- Ceicei

I think there is a difference in rocking the boat to get your students to think outside their own preconceived boxes and being immature. I've met a couple of instructors that had "quirks" in their teaching style that I found were not exactly to my liking but they were'nt what I'd call immature.

 

[Andrew Green]

Interesting view. I'll have to think that over some more. How much rocking the boat is good and how much is too much?

- Ceicei

More a matter of "why" then "how much". Doing it for no other reason then to rock it is not productive. But if there is good reason to rock it, then rock it. The most influential people are always the ones that rocked it the hardest. But the ones that get laughed at are the ones that rock it when they got nothing...

 

[Franc0]

One of the biggest examples of instructor immaturity are the "wannabe" instructors that go from art to art, never get a black belt or advanced ranking in anything, then become "founders" of their own system by mish mashing elements of what they picked up in their brief studies and make pronouncements as if they are authorities. These types are immature because they are satisfying a selfish egotistical desire to be a top dog without putting in the time to gain the knowledge that "real" founders/instructors worked so hard to earn.

Franco

 

[arnisador]

Yeah, you see this all the time. They're often immature in the strict sense of being young, too. They have a vision of themselves as instructors, and they do it without investing the time to become real teachers. How many people have earned 5 green belts, then made up their own style? It's impatience and it's immaturity.

 

[Franc0]

Just curious Phil, what are your thoughts on these past two comments?

Franco

 

[Shaolinwind]

The most common problem instructors face is, in my opinion, that of immaturity.

Part of your post is similar to a personal situation. When I was in TSD my Kyo Sa Nim was really offended when someone left TSD to take up a different system, and that person was "never welcome back in his dojang."

This also applied to new student who switched to TKD because it was a 2 block walking distance vs the 60 minute drive to get to TSD. This also most definitely applies to my wife and I for changing to Kung Fu. I guess I should thank him for reasurring me I made the right choice.

 

[Don Roley]

Just curious Phil, what are your thoughts on these past two comments?

Franco

You are obviously trying to make Phil sound like his article.

The problem is, the article is about Instructor imaturity. Phil has never been an instructor. He wrote a pamphlet, but he does not have a dojo, does not teach students and is going to a silat school as a student on a weekly basis.

As for the pamplet, from people that have actually read it, it seems to be a collection of advice and such that begginers need. Things like the importance of being aware of your surroundings, the problems with hitting someone in the head with a closed fist, etc. Pretty much common sense stuff that you do not see in a lot of McDojos.

So in my opinion, Phil is not a head of an art, nor an instructor.

 

[still learning]

Hello, I really enjoy reading your thoughts on understanding a Instructor Maturity or Immaturity! You are right on the money.

People can change if they want to? ( Improve themselves) Growing up sometimes takes time, or comes from some hard lessons we go thru in life.

In our school even our Professor has change alot. In his old days (storys of his life), Our Professor was a very tought guy and was involved in alot of fights. Today his preaches to care for everyone, avoid bad situtions,walk away and what have you done for your community.

Our training is always changing to the times and is growing to meet today world.

But our system can be brutal if need to be and like most of you it has different levels of self-defense to meet most situtions.

My own Instructor is always improving and set's very high standards for himself. Does not force this and is always encourging others to set their own high standards.

Growing up is not easy and our parents/adults/friends/teachers have influence our thoughts in our minds. So to grow up to maturity it may take time to change. .....still learning and growing......Aloha

 

[Phil Elmore]

Being immature as an instructor -- chronologically, mentally, emotionally, whatever -- does not mean one is a bad instructor, either, at least not necessarily. I can think of two instructors from whom I've learned -- both of whom were gifted teachers -- who were at very different points on their training paths, one several decades older than the other. The older instructor clearly had more maturity, but both teachers were good ones and both taught me a lot.

 

[Pale Rider]

I know of one instructor who definetly fits that criteria. Attacks people online, sets one standard for himself and regardless he finds faults in many.

 

[Franc0]

1)You are obviously trying to make Phil sound like his article.

2)So in my opinion, Phil is not a head of an art, nor an instructor.

1) Actually I wasn't. Since he started this thread, I was just wanting his opinion. And he was able to answer it on his own thank you. No biggie.

2) I was under the assumption that Phil co-founded Short Hand Empty Hand, and when you co-found a system, wouldn't you say he's at least the "co-head" of that system? As for him being an instructor, that was something I never assumed.

Phil wrote "Being immature as an instructor -- chronologically, mentally, emotionally, whatever -- does not mean one is a bad instructor, either, at least not necessarily."
Thanks for the answer Phil, just wanted your opinion, and I can accept that. We may not agree on some points, but I can see some of your points as valid.

Franco

 

[Ubermint]

2) I was under the assumption that Phil co-founded Short Hand Empty Hand, and when you co-found a system, wouldn't you say he's at least the "co-head" of that system? As for him being an instructor, that was something I never assumed.

I have to agree. In fact, if what you are saying is true, that is the second system he has "co-founded". He also "co-founded" "Shang-Liang Li" QUOTATION MARK KEY BROKEN SEND NEW ONE.

In fact, Phil's accusations of immaturity are often themselves immature, leading to an endless Yin-Yang esque postmodern loop of Virtual Tough Guyism*

As he writes here:

I was watching Spike TV's Ultimate Fighter reality show, in which a group of would-be UFC/MMA competitors live in a house together while training and periodically fighting one another to see who is eliminated on a weekly basis. The participants in the show are fairly typical of the worst elements of the sportfighting crowd – vulgar jocks with the minds of children, who spend their time weeping, whining, and bickering with one another when they're not drunkenly punching through doors or pissing on each other's bunk beds. "There's no crying in the UFC," I complained to the television.

It is these child-men trapped inside the buff bodies of professional athletes who epitomize the Bullshido.com mentality. The sportfighting mindset is basically an immature and ego-driven outlook on life – the arrogant belief that one can be the strongest and the toughest (and that one proves so in competition against others) coupled with a deep and abiding insecurity about one's abilities.

And, on this very forum, on nonviolent-communication:

Some sort of commie-simp-pacifist thing?

*And yes, I realize the irony of denouncing Phil using a term he made up.

 

[Phil Elmore]