So in this scenario, we're assuming that the 1st degree has his/her own school? So if thats the case, and if the school isn't a belt factory and makes the student put in the time and make sure they really know the material, then by the time they reach the BB level, its very possible the 1st degree could have moved up a level.
The war on rank
- Thread starter JTKenpo
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So in this scenario, we're assuming that the 1st degree has his/her own school? So if thats the case, and if the school isn't a belt factory and makes the student put in the time and make sure they really know the material, then by the time they reach the BB level, its very possible the 1st degree could have moved up a level.
So, like Pete said in response to JD's comment, people are looking at that high rank, going 'ohh and ahh' and assuming that because a person is an 8th, they are somehow better. Sure, upon first look, that is the natural line of thought, yet in the end, that may not be the case, because the lower rank could very well know more and perhaps apply the material better.
From personal experience, I know of a few lower ranking black belts, that had much more practical skill than the teacher. The teacher never did much of anything with those students, due to the fact that they'd probably make him look foolish. Sparring...forget it...the lower BBs would clearly out fight him.
Due to the fact that I don't know who is reading this, I won't mention any names, however, if Stickarts is reading this thread, I'm sure he'll know who I'm talking about.
furtom
Yellow Belt
Very true. I think if you substitute "real world" for "martial arts" it will be even more true! :wink2:
Doc
Senior Master
The problem with your assessment is you are assuming the ranks actually represent what they are supposed to. I know several 1st degree ranks that know a lot more than quite a few 7th's, and higher I could name.
KempoGuy06
Grandmaster
rank is only important to me because i like pretty colors 
and it gives me a tool to explain my progression in the arts to someone not in the arts and I like to have goals in place
B
and it gives me a tool to explain my progression in the arts to someone not in the arts and I like to have goals in place
B
Of course, one would think that if the person in question was that ego driven to be recognized, that they would want to be known for their skill. Afterall, that is what matters when it comes to SD, not the cloth tied about their belly.
True, but you can tell someone that you're a 25 degreee black belt with blu polka dots and get the oohs and aahs of the undeducated masses to help feed your ego. You'd have to demonstrate skill, and that might show your flaws and weaknesses, and you wouldn't want people to know about those
True, but you can tell someone that you're a 25 degreee black belt with blu polka dots and get the oohs and aahs of the undeducated masses to help feed your ego. You'd have to demonstrate skill, and that might show your flaws and weaknesses, and you wouldn't want people to know about those
LOL, true! Whats sad, is that the uneducated will fall for this, hook, line and sinker. To the uneducated, those con artists look appealing, while the ones who know better, will see thru them.
A quote that I've seen Mr. John Bishop use in his sig line..."Time will either promote you or expose you." Truer words were never spoken.
DavidCC
Master of Arts
I agree
asides : not ALL our combos are changed! We still do the same #6
LOL and many more I'm surebut is "the system" just "the techniques"? Or is it more? sorry, wrong thread for that
hkfuie
Purple Belt
Yeah, that's the difficulty, the idea that it should be standard. That is so basic, my mind just assumes it without me realizing it, so I am sure the non-m.a. public would assume the same.
I have to admit I have had my struggles with this. But I see it as an opportunity to grow every time I deal with it again.
I wish I could say it has never bothered me. It is a good thing b/c it teaches me humility. My skills are not about the belt and they are not about what others think, anyway. There is more than one path through martial arts knowledge and more than one reason to train. Ahhh...I feel better. Maybe I will take Carol's approach and just go train.
Ray
Master Black Belt
When I first started in Kenpo, advancement was what I sought.
At green belt, I changed my goal from advancement to becoming as good as the best that I knew and vowed to never test until I was as good as them.
At this point I still want to increase my skill and knowledge. I'm content to wear my 19 year old black belt for now. I know I'll never be as good as I want to be. And there is no end to knowledge and things to learn.
At green belt, I changed my goal from advancement to becoming as good as the best that I knew and vowed to never test until I was as good as them.
At this point I still want to increase my skill and knowledge. I'm content to wear my 19 year old black belt for now. I know I'll never be as good as I want to be. And there is no end to knowledge and things to learn.
There are several "problems" with rank and comparing ranks. First -- rank is NOT absolute. My 2nd level black belt has several meanings: it means I'm a black belt in my art, having met the criteria at the time I was initially promoted, and have been promoted once since then. It means nothing in comparison with any other black belt in any other system by itself. Without knowing WHEN I was promoted, you don't even have a clue what tests I passed -- or if I passed any to be advanced!
To me, rank is a quick, rough sorting of where people's skills within their art are. In some cases, a black belt indicates a lot of skill and knowledge; in others, it means that you've learned the basics well enough to finally really start learning. In some styles, any black belt is expected to be able to teach; in others, only those particularly selected and licensed or designated are instructors. A red belt in TKD is often the step below black; in many Japanese styles, it designates a very high level black belt!
I see rank as a personal guide within my system -- but only a guide. Rank isn't the same as status or respect.
To me, rank is a quick, rough sorting of where people's skills within their art are. In some cases, a black belt indicates a lot of skill and knowledge; in others, it means that you've learned the basics well enough to finally really start learning. In some styles, any black belt is expected to be able to teach; in others, only those particularly selected and licensed or designated are instructors. A red belt in TKD is often the step below black; in many Japanese styles, it designates a very high level black belt!
I see rank as a personal guide within my system -- but only a guide. Rank isn't the same as status or respect.
Danjo
Master Black Belt
It all depends on how you identify yourself I think. When I think of myself as a member of the Emperado-Reyes-Forbach-Bishop lineage, then I am very proud of my black belt because know that they are not given away and anyone who knows that lineage well, knows what my black belt means. When I think of myself as a Kajukenbo black belt, then I am still proud, because I know that MOST of those ranks are given out properly compared to other organizations I've had dealings with, or ones I've observed. When I think of myself as a "Martial Artist" then my rank is almost meaningless given how little standardization there is and how many of them are merely sold to children etc. So it all depends on how I identify myself as to how proud I feel of my black belt.
Great post, and the underlined part brings up an interesting point. Granted its probably next to impossible to have everyone use the same standards, because some will probably be lower or higher than others, but it sure would be nice to see something in place.
I could see some margin for error in the first few ranks, ie: yellow and orange. But once they start to advance up, that margin needs to be smaller. People are not perfect, but my God, if someone is up for green belt, you'd think that things would look sharp.
I"ve sat on my share of rank tests, and there were many times when I felt like telling the person to leave the floor, pack their bags, and come back when they knew what they were doing.
Im certainly not implying that I'm perfect...lol...I'm far from it. We all have our brain farts. But once you remember what it is you're supposed to be doing, then dammit, do it with some effort.
ares
Orange Belt
Some people see it as a sign of accomplishment. That's how I see it. But I also know that I must always remember to keep studying and improve in what I know. I have seen some people come into the dojo with a higher rank then me, but when we would train I could see that they didn't practice much in the lower rank stuff, so they were sloppy and unpolished. Rank is only that you have learned things up to a certain point. If you don't keep learning and perfecting what you already know then your belt doesn't mean squat.
I already posted this once, its the journey. Once you get to black, it wears over time utlimately returning to white, and you get to begin again...... You refine your understanding with every repetition. Point? Stop obsessing on rank, and enjoy the ride.
kidswarrior
Senior Master
This is certainly true for me, personally.
From white to black, rank was pretty much everything. It was all about me. After 1st black, 2nd for sure, kinda lost interest in my rank, and it's become about helping others (which actually forces me to strive to get much better--staying ahead of the students, and all that
).
hkfuie
Purple Belt
Rank keeps people in the arts until they learn enough to fall in love with their art.
So I guess until you stop worrying about rank, you're just dating your art.
Once you fall in love with your art, or martial arts, THEN it's all about learning and growing. That's my theory, at least.
So I guess until you stop worrying about rank, you're just dating your art.
Once you fall in love with your art, or martial arts, THEN it's all about learning and growing. That's my theory, at least.
I'm proud of my Blackbelt because it was given to me by my Instructor Mr. Hatfield and his instructor Mr. Wedlake. They felt I deserved it and I was honored to recieve it and remain honored. beyond that it is just a piece of cloth and certainly ranks are difficult to compare school to school, let alone art to art. Judge the person and don't worry about the belt.
Last week I got a chance to train with Doc Chapel and I would gladly return to white belt if it would get me more time on the mat with Doc. I feel the same about the time I've spent with Mr. Wedlake.
Jeff
Last week I got a chance to train with Doc Chapel and I would gladly return to white belt if it would get me more time on the mat with Doc. I feel the same about the time I've spent with Mr. Wedlake.
Jeff
jamz
Orange Belt
I've only been practicing for a year, but am halfway through the "color scale", so now belt advancements stop coming quickly. If I continue at the normal pace, working up through the rest of them will take another four years or so. For me, now is a good time to forget about rank, or at least put it in the back of the mind, because it will be a very long (but enjoyable) trip, and to lust after the next belt color will just make it frustrating. Brown is a year and a half alone at my school.
Especially important to forget about it because I know I could swap schools within the system and "get" a black belt much faster (villaris, ya know...heck I could get one in the mail).... but as my instructor says, you could get a black belt faster, but if you put in more time, and more practice, you could be so much better, which is why it takes a while at her dojo, and that's also why I stay there.
Especially important to forget about it because I know I could swap schools within the system and "get" a black belt much faster (villaris, ya know...heck I could get one in the mail).... but as my instructor says, you could get a black belt faster, but if you put in more time, and more practice, you could be so much better, which is why it takes a while at her dojo, and that's also why I stay there.
