The Resurgence of Traditional Martial Arts in Modern Mixed Martial Arts

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

7 days a week? I’m just not able to keep that up. Good answers. Thanks.

To clarify, my experience has been pretty much no one does 7 days a week. You pick and choose what classes you want to attend, and there's at least 2-3 instructors for the different classes so they have breaks as well.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you have certain "go to" techniques that you know work for you and you can depend on?

This is called "door guarding skills" that we all try to develop through our lifetime. IMO, it's not a single technique. It's a set of techniques instead. To develop a tree, not only you have to master the root, but you also have to master all branches.

The root of the tree is your general. The branches of the tree are all your soldiers.

 

[Haruhiko]

No.

We can literally just watch people fight and see who wins.

Yes, within the UFC ruleset. That's just observing two people in a cage for a few rounds. Is that sufficient evidence to determine the world's ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPION (TM)?

For some it is.

Real fights are in a state of flow, with response, hesitation, and desperation. All of a sudden rules are chucked out the window and weaponry is allowed, eye gouging and spinal attacks too. We don't and can't observe that because it's not broadcasted.

If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?

The complicad part is when you try to get around that.

Yes - a no holds barred fight is very complicated. It won't look anything like a UFC fight. No one rings a bell. No one is there to patch you up.

 

[drop bear]

If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?

This is the essence of it.

Even though there are no rules in the forrest we have observed trees fall elsewhere.

And we would assume it wouldn't be much different just because the location has changed.

 

[drop bear]

Yes - a no holds barred fight is very complicated. It won't look anything like a UFC fight. No one rings a bell. No one is there to patch you up.

There is enough damage dealt in a rules fight to incapacitate someone.

Do you feel they just wouldn't be incapacitated because there are no rules?

 

[HighKick]

There is enough damage dealt in a rules fight to incapacitate someone.

Do you feel they just wouldn't be incapacitated because there are no rules?

The exception would be tippy-tappy points sparring.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The skill that you need will vary. What works against one person doesn't mean it will work against all. There is a reason why there are thousands of techniques instead of one good one. If slip and hit the liver is the answer then there is no need for another technique.

This is why it's important to know yourself and know your enemy. Having that knowledge should give you some Insight on what may work and what may not work. It should help you to understand when to fight and when not to fight.

I would never assume that my most dangerous skill set is the thing that beats all. If I have to fight to the death then part of that reality is that I might die. If I'm more skilled then I may have a variety of solutions to choose from. If I'm less skilled then possible solutions is less. That's just reality.

Many street dudes had there butts handed to them because they thought they had the solutions.

Modern weapons still require skill, same as any weapon, they don’t aim themselves.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There is enough damage dealt in a rules fight to incapacitate someone.

Some people often have a theoretical idea of how things will happen in a real fight. A few rounds of sparring against various types of fighting systems will often update their perceptions of what they can and can't do

If I'm getting pounded into the ground in a sport then the chances are very high that the outcome will be similar or worse in a life and death situation. The assumption is "I can use my deadly TMA techniques." The reality is, my opponent will crank up the intensity as well and will seek deadly force equal to or greater than mine. The assumption that I would be the only one using deadly force is a bad assumption to make.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

To clarify, my experience has been pretty much no one does 7 days a week. You pick and choose what classes you want to attend, and there's at least 2-3 instructors for the different classes so they have breaks as well.

I’ve been having some injury stuff slowing me down lately. I’m doing 3 Wing Woo Gar workouts a week, 1 Chin na session, 1 or 2 gung fu forms sessions, TaiChi form as much as possible, plus hiking, and shooting practice. That’s about as much as I can currently pull off with real life and a couple of nagging injuries. I need to get back to weights but I have a few more weeks recovery first. 2024 was hard on my body. I’m only training 4 days most weeks right now. I did 6 days at 3-4 hours a day for many years but I can’t seem to stay whole long enough to work back up to that. My marriage and dogs would suffer at that rate anyway. Ah well. Doin my best with what I have for now.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Someone who assumed that they would be the only one increasing the intensity and failing to understand that her opponent has the same ability to increase intensity.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Some people often have a theoretical idea of how things will happen in a real fight. A few rounds of sparring against various types of fighting systems will often update their perceptions of what they can and can't do

If I'm getting pounded into the ground in a sport then the chances are very high that the outcome will be similar or worse in a life and deaf situation. The assumption is "I can use my deadly TMA techniques." The reality is, my opponent will crank up the intensity as well and will seek deadly force equal to or greater than mine. The assumption that I would be the only one using deadly force is a bad assumption to make.

Sure, true, some other people might have a theoretical idea that in a street fight you square off and knuckle up. In a real fight they use deception, bricks, rocks, knives, bottles, pepper spray, cue sticks, tire irons, call friends in, or maybe shoot at you, run you over with a car, throw dirt in your face, etc etc etc. I have seen every single one of these things happen in real life. Fair is a thing with games and rides. Comparing the the ring with street only works for some scenarios. Fight experience can certainly help, but it’s not purely translatable.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Someone who assumed that they would be the only one increasing the intensity and failing to understand that her opponent has the same ability to increase intensity.

She’s lucky. Approaching the car like that can get you shot. Getting out of the car was a bad idea for the passenger because that’s escalating as well... Don’t road rage, it ain’t worth it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Man, we have goats, manhandling a mad 150-200lb goat by the horns is a trip. A headbutt from a goat is basically that goat punching you with its head. One that size can headbutt you from just a few inches away and knock you down. They have fantastic technique lol.

I love goats. They are just such individuals. They love a good wrestle, but it’s hard to get them off their feet. I think it’s a whole lot easier to throw a same size bull calf. I have had good luck controlling goats by grabbing a handful of hide on the back just in front of the tail. Sometimes they just give up and fall down from that grip alone. Try it!

 

[drop bear]

Some people often have a theoretical idea of how things will happen in a real fight. A few rounds of sparring against various types of fighting systems will often update their perceptions of what they can and can't do

If I'm getting pounded into the ground in a sport then the chances are very high that the outcome will be similar or worse in a life and death situation. The assumption is "I can use my deadly TMA techniques." The reality is, my opponent will crank up the intensity as well and will seek deadly force equal to or greater than mine. The assumption that I would be the only one using deadly force is a bad assumption to make.

Interestingly it depends.

If you put enough story in their heads about how things work in the street. Then they will discount that evidence for their conformation bias.

Which is why trying to focus on evidence and not stories is so important.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I’ve been having some injury stuff slowing me down lately. I’m doing 3 Wing Woo Gar workouts a week, 1 Chin na session, 1 or 2 gung fu forms sessions, TaiChi form as much as possible, plus hiking, and shooting practice. That’s about as much as I can currently pull off with real life and a couple of nagging injuries. I need to get back to weights but I have a few more weeks recovery first. 2024 was hard on my body. I’m only training 4 days most weeks right now. I did 6 days at 3-4 hours a day for many years but I can’t seem to stay whole long enough to work back up to that. My marriage and dogs would suffer at that rate anyway. Ah well. Doin my best with what I have for now.

Same here, honestly. At multiple points in my past, I could (and did) 6 days a week, a couple hours a day. At this point, I've fot other responsibilities to take care of, other hobbies, and also a limited amount of energy after work. I'd rather a balanced life at this point then neglect other things to focus on one aspect of my life.

 

[Badhabits]

I love goats. They are just such individuals. They love a good wrestle, but it’s hard to get them off their feet. I think it’s a whole lot easier to throw a same size bull calf. I have had good luck controlling goats by grabbing a handful of hide on the back just in front of the tail. Sometimes they just give up and fall down from that grip alone. Try it!

I've never messed with calves but grabbing a goat by the hide like you described does work like a charm. We've got one in particular thats just a big jerk, have had to pull him off his feet several times by the hide. We have a dog that helps out, it's easier when he's distracting that a-hole goat lol. He'll actually grip a goat by the back of the neck. Doesn't hurt them but man it helps.

 

[Badhabits]

The skill that you need will vary. What works against one person doesn't mean it will work against all. There is a reason why there are thousands of techniques instead of one good one. If slip and hit the liver is the answer then there is no need for another technique.

This is why it's important to know yourself and know your enemy. Having that knowledge should give you some Insight on what may work and what may not work. It should help you to understand when to fight and when not to fight.

I would never assume that my most dangerous skill set is the thing that beats all. If I have to fight to the death then part of that reality is that I might die. If I'm more skilled then I may have a variety of solutions to choose from. If I'm less skilled then possible solutions is less. That's just reality.

Many street dudes had there butts handed to them because they thought they had the solutions.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, it's all good points made. But the reality is that I can't prepare for everything/know every enemy. But it's pretty common for people to turn away slightly and load up a sucker punch before they throw it. There's a telegraph even when they try to hide it by laughing or something. All I'm saying is that if I've practiced evading a right sucker punch and hitting the liver as I do, thousands of times until that reaction is second nature, there's a good chance it'll work. Maybe not against a very experienced fighter, maybe then I'm screwed. But against the pecker head who takes a swing at me cause hes mad I won't buy steaks he's selling out of a cooler in the back of his truck in a gas station parking lot late at night.......
But I should also have a follow up plan if the liver shot fails. Ok, the majority of people I've played with react in one or two ways to me slipping and firing at the liver. So I develop responses to those as well. And hope I'm good enough at my responses that basically knowing what that person is going to do before he does it is enough to take them down. If I still can't do it, maybe that says I suck more than the other person is a good fighter. Even kata have some redundancy built into them for this very purpose.
I would hope none of us think we have some magic bullet technique that beats all. That really is woo woo chi ball thinking lol! I don't necessarily even trust a gun to stop someone in their tracks. I've done too much hunting to trust that a bullet will always drop any living thing.

 

[Badhabits]

Something I've noticed here, you CMA guys really seem to study fighting. Most of the karate I've practiced is more geared towards stopping an attacker so you don't have to actually engage in a fight. Hopefully lol. I was taught if you're having to spend time fighting with a person, you're not doing karate the way it's meant.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Same here, honestly. At multiple points in my past, I could (and did) 6 days a week, a couple hours a day. At this point, I've fot other responsibilities to take care of, other hobbies, and also a limited amount of energy after work. I'd rather a balanced life at this point then neglect other things to focus on one aspect of my life.

Balance on one foot I can do effortlessly, balancing work/life not so much.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Something I've noticed here, you CMA guys really seem to study fighting. Most of the karate I've practiced is more geared towards stopping an attacker so you don't have to actually engage in a fight. Hopefully lol. I was taught if you're having to spend time fighting with a person, you're not doing karate the way it's meant.

Most of my actual “fighting” was before I trained CMA. My dirty tricks, improvised weapons, limited boxing, and even more limited JJJ was what I used as a teenager and early 20s. I started CMA 28 years ago. I acquired my most recent teacher, Dr Yang Jwing Ming about 18months ago. I think my focus is far more geared towards movement fundamentals that make martial arts possibly more effective. I like to think that what I teach can be applied to nearly all other athletic endeavors. I don’t focus on teaching techniques, I focus on balance, posture, and coordination. I’m of the opinion that teaching techniques to people who can’t stand up straight, or on one leg is a waste of time. What technique works without coordination? Which techniques work better when these solid fundamentals are present? I don’t know a thing about Karate, but I understand that viewpoint. Half a brick to the back of the head can be quite expeditious.