The Resurgence of Traditional Martial Arts in Modern Mixed Martial Arts

[Buka]

Dan severn is still training at 66.

Severn is the balls. Really nice man, too.

 

[Buka]

Don't know about most, nor really care...it's their practice..
Feel people know how to fight, more like a matter of need and level of fighting...

We live in an age where there are many things that people are no longer aware of because it's doesn't affect them.
War for example..

Used to work with a guy who was supposed to fight Jeff Smith" light heavy in what was called "full contact" back in the day.
My Friend in the military SSG Brown, if memory serves me, trained with those in the "White Horse" 백마부대 South Korean division in Vietnam.

Pretty tuff dude, he used Tang Soo Do 당수도, mixed with hapki-do 합기도
at the time..

Jeff Smith could flat out fight. A good person, too.

 

[Steve]

Dunk? I’m not sure it’s the contest you think it is.

My man. You literally played the “my dad can beat up your dad” card. You made it weird.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

My man. You literally played the “my dad can beat up your dad” card. You made it weird.

You have no sense of humor. It’s weird to begin with. And besides, it’s true my dad can beat up your dad, using “ soft skills”. lol!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

My man. You literally played the “my dad can beat up your dad” card. You made it weird.

I feel like if people say such and such is the balls and everything else is crap, that’s kind of weird. I read it here semi frequently, I just point things that I feel are pertinent and then arbitrarily true according to my experiences. If I make some fun or say things tongue in cheek, like my granny can scrap better than that, I’m having some fun with it. BTW I am totally freaking weird, man, you know this, you don’t have to keep telling everyone, they know too.

 

[Steve]

I feel like if people say such and such is the balls and everything else is crap, that’s kind of weird. I read it here semi frequently, I just point things that I feel are pertinent and then arbitrarily true according to my experiences. If I make some fun or say things tongue in cheek, like my granny can scrap better than that, I’m having some fun with it. BTW I am totally freaking weird, man, you know this, you don’t have to keep telling everyone, they know too.

We all have opinions, and we can all be relied upon to be pretty consistent, usually. The longer we're around, the more we end up saying the same things to each other.

For my money, my 89-year-old dad was a high school wrestler and boxed in the military. And he just had refractive lens surgery, so his vision is top notch. I'd take him over your 80 year old sigung all day long.

I have absolutely no idea if that is a good bet, but he's my dad and he's still really active, so I'll back what I know. Which, unless you can point to some external measurement, is what everyone here is doing. That's something competitive arts have over most others, at least.

 

[Steve]

I feel like if people say such and such is the balls and everything else is crap, that’s kind of weird. I read it here semi frequently,

I get it. Can you point me to somewhere that someone does that? I'm curious who we're talking about. Just throw a link or DM me a link to a post where someone says something along the lines of MMA is the balls and everything else is crap. I haven't been paying much attention, but it seems like that would stand out to me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I get it. Can you point me to somewhere that someone does that? I'm curious who we're talking about. Just throw a link or DM me a link to a post where someone says something along the lines of MMA is the balls and everything else is crap. I haven't been paying much attention, but it seems like that would stand out to me.

And how long have you been on MT?

Pick a style any style, including MMA, there has been a poster somewhere along the way that posted such a thing, and I am pretty sure you know it. A few years back when I took things much more seriously we have been on opposite ends of those discussions too.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

We all have opinions, and we can all be relied upon to be pretty consistent, usually. The longer we're around, the more we end up saying the same things to each other.

For my money, my 89-year-old dad was a high school wrestler and boxed in the military. And he just had refractive lens surgery, so his vision is top notch. I'd take him over your 80 year old sigung all day long.

I have absolutely no idea if that is a good bet, but he's my dad and he's still really active, so I'll back what I know. Which, unless you can point to some external measurement, is what everyone here is doing. That's something competitive arts have over most others, at least.

I’m really just kidding about dads, I will get back to that.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

We all have opinions, and we can all be relied upon to be pretty consistent, usually. The longer we're around, the more we end up saying the same things to each other.

For my money, my 89-year-old dad was a high school wrestler and boxed in the military. And he just had refractive lens surgery, so his vision is top notch. I'd take him over your 80 year old sigung all day long.

I have absolutely no idea if that is a good bet, but he's my dad and he's still really active, so I'll back what I know. Which, unless you can point to some external measurement, is what everyone here is doing. That's something competitive arts have over most others, at least.

No argument there. And, you kinda have to take your dad man. And, no argument there either. On to dad vs dad and measurements…

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I get it. Can you point me to somewhere that someone does that? I'm curious who we're talking about. Just throw a link or DM me a link to a post where someone says something along the lines of MMA is the balls and everything else is crap. I haven't been paying much attention, but it seems like that would stand out to me.

Ok, I’m paraphrasing and generalizing an ephemeral and emotionally based biased opinion with no basis in fact whatsoever. Never happened. I’m so not invested in picking bones with you, it’s incredibly tiresome. Let’s talk dads vs dads with external measurements. I’m nearly 100% that your real dad could beat my real dad up, if, my dad was alive. All good?

 

[Haruhiko]

By avoiding riskier training like sparring and competiton work, sure you will get hurt less. But chances are you will just not progress, and martial arts is one of those places where people get really overconfident about their abilities.

TMA, as I appreciate them, is all about progress. Different progress though - not to be the best fighter, it's more a personal, spiritual, and humble endeavour.

competiton is the only thing that keeps martial arts legitimate.

Come on now, by that logic any TMA or other martial art for that matter that doesn't hold competitions isn't legitimate?

At the end of the day, the TMA community as you call it produces very little in terms of skilled fighters. There's just little evidence of that. People who train TMA are mostly hobbyists, they do it for fun and fitness.

It's more than a hobby, especially when we consider koryūha. I would be ignorant to call any student of those not a "skilled fighter".

combat sports broke that mold 30 years ago

Combat sports simply don't allow for a lot of the techniques taught in TMA. And TMA aren't compatible with rulesets in the UFC, as they're not sports to begin with.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

At the end of the day, the TMA community as you call it produces very little in terms of skilled fighters.

Agree with you 100% on this. The problem is that TMA people may spend too much time to build up foundation. When you have developed a solid perfect foundation, you may be too old to develop your combat experience. It's like you build a house and spend 99% of your money on your concrete foundation. You then don't have any money left to put up your roof. You end up with an unfinished house.

I have learned 1 dagger form, 2 staff forms, 1 knife form, 1 sword form, and 1 spear form. My long fist teacher said that my weapon training was not complete yet. The more time that I might spend on my weapon training, the less time that I would spend on my sparring/wrestling training. IMO, this is another TMA problem - not treating open hand combat as the highest priority.

In this video, this person has excellent foundation. He started to develop his foundation during his very young age. At 1.52, his kick is amazing that most of the MA people won't be able to do. The question is, do you really need that much foundation to be a fighter? IMO, you don't.

 

[Xue Sheng]

At the end of the day, the TMA community as you call it produces very little in terms of skilled fighters. There's just little evidence of that. People who train TMA are mostly hobbyists, they do it for fun and fitness.

Not arguing for or against here, but by what do you judge this.... the ring, the cage? Have you known a lot of TMA folks from different styles? If they do not compete, does not mean they are not skilled. Nor does it mean they are. It is just I am not a fan of generalizations without data backing them up.

 

[drop bear]

Not arguing for or against here, but by what do you judge this.... the ring, the cage? Have you known a lot of TMA folks from different styles? If they do not compete, does not mean they are not skilled. Nor does it mean they are. It is just I am not a fan of generalizations without data backing them up.

There is no evidence of skilled fighters.
If they do not fight somewhere that people can see it.

 

[marvin8]

Not arguing for or against here, but by what do you judge this.... the ring, the cage? Have you known a lot of TMA folks from different styles? If they do not compete, does not mean they are not skilled. Nor does it mean they are. It is just I am not a fan of generalizations without data backing them up.

Agree. At 33:05...

"Peter: The first thing you should say is 'Cool, awesome let's test [sparring/fighting] that. And if you've got something cool that I don't know about that it works, I'm gonna put it in my game.' So, 'Thank you for teaching me that. Thank you for coming.' So not, 'That's BS that won't work.' But, 'Hey fantastic let’s test that out. Let's see and I'd love to learn from you if that works.'
Rokas: But, the testing has to happen.
Peter: Well yeah or if it doesn't happen why should you believe anybody. It's just make believe land."

Martial Arts Journey
Jan 5, 2019

While many of us consider ourselves good critical thinkers in this talk with Peter Boghossian it becomes quickly clear that critical thinking is not as self-evident as it seems, be it in martial arts or any other field. Join me and Peter Boghossian in this talk on how to develop critical thinking, how to be honest with yourself, how to test your ideas against reality and much more.

 

[Badhabits]

Agree with you 100% on this. The problem is that TMA people may spend too much time to build up foundation. When you have developed a solid perfect foundation, you may be too old to develop your combat experience. It's like you build a house and spend 99% of your money on your concrete foundation. You then don't have any money left to put up your roof. You end up with an unfinished house.

I have learned 1 dagger form, 2 staff forms, 1 knife form, 1 sword form, and 1 spear form. My long fist teacher said that my weapon training was not complete yet. The more time that I might spend on my weapon training, the less time that I would spend on my sparring/wrestling training. IMO, this is another TMA problem - not treating open hand combat as the highest priority.

In this video, this person has excellent foundation. He started to develop his foundation during his very young age. At 1.52, his kick is amazing that most of the MA people won't be able to do. The question is, do you really need that much foundation to be a fighter? IMO, you don't.

I totally agree with this. Perfection of technique has become an end in itself. We should pursue this, but not to the exclusion of being able to apply those techniques. At least if you want functional martial arts. Too many TMA practitioners get good skill and technique but never progress into application.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The thing all the “MMA is best” guys forget is how short the expiration date is on mma fighters. They will be talking bout the “good ol days when I could walk right” at 55 years old. My 80 year old Sigung could “destroy” any mma fighter the same age likely with the use of “soft skills” only.

I think a lot of this depends on their training and level of competition/fighting.

An MMA guy who's practicing full contact and participating in 2-3 fights per year, yeah they're going to be messed up by 60. An mma guy who's not competing, practicing light contact, and isn't going hardcore; if he continues til he's 80 he's going to be in pretty good health. And still be able to fight pretty well. I'd also assume at some point during that 50+year time spent training he learns soft skills and how to control without relying on superior speed/strength/reaction, given that he's using a style that adapts other styles.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Agree. At 33:05...

"Peter: The first thing you should say is 'Cool, awesome let's test [sparring/fighting] that. And if you've got something cool that I don't know about that it works, I'm gonna put it in my game.' So, 'Thank you for teaching me that. Thank you for coming.' So not, 'That's BS that won't work.' But, 'Hey fantastic let’s test that out. Let's see and I'd love to learn from you if that works.'
Rokas: But, the testing has to happen.
Peter: Well yeah or if it doesn't happen why should you believe anybody. It's just make believe land."

Martial Arts Journey
Jan 5, 2019

While many of us consider ourselves good critical thinkers in this talk with Peter Boghossian it becomes quickly clear that critical thinking is not as self-evident as it seems, be it in martial arts or any other field. Join me and Peter Boghossian in this talk on how to develop critical thinking, how to be honest with yourself, how to test your ideas against reality and much more.

So what is this post saying about the part of my post thAT you highlighted

"It is just I am not a fan of generalizations without data backing them up."

Critical Thinking - the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.

 

[Xue Sheng]

There is no evidence of skilled fighters.
If they do not fight somewhere that people can see it.

True, but does not mean they do not exist