The rant thread

[shesulsa]

I'm not a ninjutsu student, so perhaps I should bow out of the discussion ... I was just curious for clarification if you were disappointed that this person was leaving because they're an asset, disappointed because this person who is an asset and leaving had difficulty, in your opinion, maintaining tutelage from Hatsumi Sensei, if you may be disappointed that Hatsumi's demeanor is such that it might drive some good people away ... ????

But I digress. I will leave the convo. Thanks for your tolerance.

 

[bencole]

I was just curious for clarification if you were disappointed that this person was leaving because they're an asset, disappointed because this person who is an asset and leaving had difficulty, in your opinion, maintaining tutelage from Hatsumi Sensei, if you may be disappointed that Hatsumi's demeanor is such that it might drive some good people away ...

Away from what? Japan? Or the Bujinkan?

I did not get the feeling that this person was leaving the Bujinkan, just moving back to his home country from Japan.

That's why I don't understand what precisely the "rant" is.... :mst:

-ben

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Which part is it that I'm unable to get across?

For the last time - I don't have ANY problem with ANYTHING the individual in question has done.

This stands in a pretty stark contrast to all the people constantly trying to emulate Hatsumi's movements as well as his method of speech.
What I think this says about a lot of the "Hatsumi hangarounds", for lack of better and more sophisticated wording, is probably best left unsaid.

 

[Bujingodai]

I am a little bit wondering what the rant if anything is about and if not why was it posted but if it had to do with those who try and copy Hatsumi and try to use his quotes as if it was their own, I understand that.

Use your own quotes, they are just as important. People put too much God stamina in the man.

 

[Bigshadow]

Speaking of Hatsumi, it is my opinion that he is the one we all should be aspiring to achieve his level of skill. In my opinion, one way to get there is to try and emulate him, with regard to one's training. I am not talking about mimicking for the sake of looking like him, I meaning emulating him to try and gain the feeling and understand of the principles he is teaching.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I brought up the individual in question because his approach is the opposite of the people I *AM* dissatisfied with/irritated at.

 

[bencole]

I brought up the individual in question because his approach is the opposite of the people I *AM* dissatisfied with/irritated at.

So you are dissatisfied with people who don't leave Japan frustrated by a supposedly overpowering senior?

I still don't get it, Nim....

The way it was written, your post actually sounds like a criticism of Hatsumi-sensei. After all, he's the supposedly overbearing personality that is driving this loving martial artist from Japan.... Even though it is Hatsumi-sensei's art that this guy loves, trains and teaches. :shake head:

As someone who has been there and done that, I have doubts whether anyone in Japan now has a relationship with Soke that causes that much stress. All contact is essentially in the dojo setting. No foreigner is regularly the uke, and no one is getting reprimanded and belittled in front of others. And so on....

The idea that there is someone subjected to "constant physical and mental domination" by Hatsumi-sensei seems a bit fantastical to me (and others with whom I've spoken about this post). I certainly never saw any such thing during all my years of training with Soke. There is certainly a chance that the environment has changed since I left (in 2000), but I doubt it given my conversations with those still in Japan.

I *DO* think your post raises a couple of interesting points though.

First, should people do what Soke tells them they should do, or should people do what they themselves think is best despite what Soke says?

Some would argue the former is better during your time in Japan, because that is the only time that you have to try to figure out what the heck Soke is doing. Picking up the essence of what Soke is teaching takes years of making mistakes and being corrected, each week.

You will always have time (after returning home) to do thousands of mindless drills getting things perfectly, and you honestly do not need someone to correct that stuff as much as the "Soke stuff." The "Soke stuff" is much harder, imo, so to not pursue it during your time in Japan would be waste of good teachings....

Second is the issue of whether one allows Japan to stamp out one's "internal fire" as I call it. You simply cannot "win" against an entire culture that demands certain behaviors and attitudes.

That is one of the reasons why I myself left Japan; I didn't want to lose *ALL* of my spirit to the overwhelming pressure of the "Japanese way." This is not a "Bujinkan specific" issue, but a broader "Japan" issue.

The Japanese have a phrase, "shiyo ga nai" (sometimes heard as "shoganai"), which means "nothing can be done" (about something).

From one perspective, it is a very defeatist statement; it takes away one's ability to actually *CHANGE* things. From another perspective, it reflects the fact that it is wiser most of the time not to waste one's energy on petty (or deeply institutionalized and therefore impossible to change) things.

*YOU* as a foreigner are not going to change Japan because you will it to do so.

Still, most foreigners have difficulty becoming "defeatist" and purely accepting the "shiyo ga nai" perspective. Perhaps it is our "go gettum attitude" or instead it may be simply our hard-headedness.

But in the end, one has to give into this perspective in order to live amicably in Japan long term. I get the feeling that this individual has finally reached the boiling point on this issue, and has decided that it is time to move on.

And I don't see that "moving on" as a bad thing, either. Anyone who has been in Japan since the early 1990s has *PLENTY* of material to keep him busy for the rest of his life. Being in Japan provides few opportunities to really digest what it is that Soke is teaching.

It personally took me about four years of being away from Japan to come to terms with what Soke had been teaching. Decompression is a good thing, and in the end, the individual may gain new insights into what he already knows by being away from Japan for some time.

One must make time to digest after a good meal, you know....

-ben

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

So you are dissatisfied with people who don't leave Japan frustrated by a supposedly overpowering senior?

My aim was to bring to light a particular set of character traits.

The way it was written, your post actually sounds like a criticism of Hatsumi-sensei. After all, he's the supposedly overbearing personality that is driving this loving martial artist from Japan.... Even though it is Hatsumi-sensei's art that this guy loves, trains and teaches. :shake head:

Again, I probably should have emphasized that that was ONE of the reasons the person left Japan. And again, I brought it up because to me (and I could be way off here) it tells me something about a person I already have tons of respect for.

The idea that there is someone subjected to "constant physical and mental domination" by Hatsumi-sensei seems a bit fantastical to me (and others with whom I've spoken about this post).

It's not like he was forced to drink tea made from human hair or anything like that. Still, I personally would be a tad intimidated just from receiving phone calls in the middle of the night.

First, should people do what Soke tells them they should do, or should people do what they themselves think is best despite what Soke says?

In my opinion the best answer to that question is to know your place in the food chain (big up, DWeidman).

Though my experience with training Japan extends only to about two weeks, I know the feeling you have when you're standing there in Honbu on a Saturday morning and Hatsumi is strutting his stuff with Nagato lying in wait for the next hour - it's really like nothing else matters in the world. Not BS X-kan politics, not that Spanish idiot who keeps kicking you in the head when you're down, not the people who have shunned training with Hatsumi, because you're standing there as part of the team of the greatest martial art in the world, and the best practitioners around are in action right in front of you. I honestly considered stopping posting here at the time as well, because when you're standing there and observing the action you know that the Bujinkan is about training and nothing else is simply worth the effort to bother yourself with.

When you get home again, you realize that the aforementioned atmosphere has a bearing on your perspective. At least in regards to training on a daily basis, and in worst case scenarios - in other areas as well.

 

[stephen]

I've recently realized that the sanshin of distance, balance, and timing applies to training itself as well.....

I know, I know, duh...

Well, what I mean is that I always understood the balance and timing parts, but, until recently, there was a place in my brain that refused to believe that you could be too close.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Nimravus, people move on and grow. This is a good thing whether in the Bujinkan or outside of it. Growth sometimes requires movement and with this movement great growth both physically and spiritually can occur. I for one would want to ask this person myself why they left rather than speculate on third party information.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

rather than speculate on third party information.

It's more than that.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I've recently realized that you can measure how long female newbies will stay behind and train by how much they talk during their first session.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

It's no big secret that if you look hard enough, you'll be able to find dirt on pretty much anyone in the Bujinkan, or the rest of the martial arts world for that matter. As for me, I threw up on my first trining in three years due to not having focused my gaze correctly during ukemi practice, I brought metal training knives into Honbu during Hatsumi's session, I walked around way too long with unrealistic standards of power and intensity* that has been the cause of a lot of friction between me and others, and my habit of practicing my peripheral vision by not looking people in the eyes while training (as well as a tic that causes me to look up and roll my eyes when I'm contemplating advice given to me in training) gives many people the faulty impression that I'm an arrogant *** who belittles the abilities of everyone I come into contact with. That should satisfy your curiosity for now.

I'm not at all suggesting that people shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of what they've done. It's just that no matter how hard I try, I just cannot figure out why this principle is enforced in such an insanely arbitrary manner within the Bujinkan.

To whom it may concern...
Where were you when that poor 8th kyu got verbally and physically bitchslapped in front of a large group of people two years ago due to not having ever practiced hicho no kata?
Where were you a few years ago when a person left Honbu dojo and someone commented that they'd been doing judo for two weeks, and not that the person had left they'd be able to get back to budo?
Where were you when I got kicked in the head during boxing sparring by a guy who passed his Godan test a few months back?
Where were you during that Honbu dojo session in the fourth of december three years ago?
Where were you when all those people were insulted with insinuations about them having been gang-raped by ten African men the day before?
Where were you when the exact details of "Big D's" ban were laid bare in public to a whole bunch of people who neither cared about it nor had anything to do with it?
Where were you when a fairly well-known instructor dropped those derogatory comments about Americans which were subsequently bleeped out of the DVD?
Where were you when my friend was almost unjustly thrown out of a seminar by that old-timer so many hold in high esteem?
Where were you when I got knocked out for no apparent reason?
Where were you during that seminar five years ago where the well-known guest instructor offended everyone present up to the point of both the arrangers looking noticeably uncomfortable?

I'm sorry, I know I'm rambling all over the place here. I just want to say that if anyone's intent on doing everyone a favor in the name of righteousness, there are in all likelihood better measures to take than to derail someone for being disrespectful by just stating an opinion.




*My own training between 2001 and 2003 left a lot to be desired in terms of balance manipulation and sheer taijutsu knowledge. It did however grant me a respect for and understanding of violence, pain, aggression and difficult people which I honestly believe is very, very difficult for a beginner to attain in the Bujinkan nowadays. I would not want to trade that understanding for anything else.

 

[shesulsa]

I've recently realized that you can measure how long female newbies will stay behind and train by how much they talk during their first session.

Not always, I'm sure. And not just female. There have been several times I've assumed a newbie were a short-timer based on the flapping motion of the jaw for the first couple weeks! Lo and behold, once the information they sought had been obtained, sweat began to pour. One of those people is a long-termer recently returned who will likely test for 1st dan within the next 18 months if not 12. Oh, and he's male.

Although, I must say ... I feel your pain. :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Where were you when I got knocked out for no apparent reason?

So what was the reason even if it was not apparent? (* Sorry I had to ask *)

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

I punched at this guy, he moved in on me, next thing I knew I was lying on the floor seeing stars with him standing over me saying "you should have been more cooperative".

 

[DWeidman]

I punched at this guy, he moved in on me, next thing I knew I was lying on the floor seeing stars with him standing over me saying "you should have been more cooperative".

I love getting back up and going.... Oh. I was unaware we were fighting instead of training. Let's try that again...

-Daniel

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Time to stir it up once again...

I find the "Warrior Creed" cheesy.

I like this one better: "you don't have to apologize if you accept responsibility instead".

 

[Tez3]

I've recently realized that you can measure how long female newbies will stay behind and train by how much they talk during their first session.

Bollocks.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Bollocks.

My Bujinkan experience tells me so.