Ok let's see if I can follow this, because I have a lot of questions for you, Enson, before I would be able to help you further.
#1
"i'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen or has ever heard of hatsumi using the ninjutsu training he has recieved?"
Hatsumi-sensei has used his ninjutsu training successfully to become a wonderful human being and to stay out of trouble. Getting into fights would actually be a failed use of ninjutsu.
"i think ralph severe said that hatsumi has no fighting experience..."
First of all, Ralph Severe is a bully who likes to fight, and uses things such as his supposed record of street fights and his constant criticism of the Bujinkan as marketing for his own school.
"... if that is the case how do you know your technique is going to work..."
I believe this has been answered adequettely.
"...i saw hayes doing a bujikan move that he doesn't use anymore..."
And that is supposed to make us conclude what? That Bujinkan techniques are ineffective because Mr. Hayes doesn't use some of them? That Hatsumi doesn't have fighting experience - or even skill - because one of his former students has made changes to the way Bujinkan-derived techniques are taught?
"... i think he said he went out and tried to use what he had learned. i guess he found that its not all effective."
So that's the conclusion? Mr. Hayes doesn't use certain techniques and that means that Bujinkan techniques are not all effective, and that is due to Hatsumi not having fighting experience?
"...maybe even ralph changed some things."
Ralph changed a lot of things, and because of his behavior was ejected from the Bujinkan before he could become a judan.
"... i know hatsumi is worshipped beyone mearsure ..."
Oh he is? I thought he was a man - turns out he's actually a god. Neat.
"...and it would be nice to know that he is practicing a tried art."
He (Hatsumi) is practicing a tried art. Do you mean that it would be nice if he had to save his life in a fight using the skills he has mastered? What's so nice about that? I wouldn't wish that fate on anybody.
"... i have thought of joining hayes because i know his stuff is tested..."
Tested by whom? Mr. Hayes? And where do you think he learned "his stuff?"
"...but is hatsumi's?"
As has been repeated several times. Many of Hatsumi's students have had to use the skills they learned from him, and so has Hatsumi's teacher.
If you are trying to draw the conclusion that the Bujinkan style is ineffective because the head of the organization has no fighting experience, you have failed.
"... now there are so many others that have branched off from him that seem to have so much more skill."
So many others? Like what? 3? 4? And so much more skill? According to whom? Your expert analysis?
#3
"who cares if hatsumi doesn't? well i should hope the practicioners do. if not they are studying an art that they have never seen used by their sensei."
Why would Bujinkan practicioners care that they haven't seen their sensei use his skills in a real fight as long as they are being shown how to properly train themselves to protect themselves in real fights (and that clearly is the case).
You are obviously trying to draw erroneous conclusions. Your question has been answered. Others are not reacting negatively towards you because of your questions, but because of your attitude.
#19
"are these the only answers i'm going to get?"
What more do you need? You asked a question. It was answered and further qualified to help draw the proper conclusion.
#34
"'well what if hatsumi and your teacher fought?' "
I would like to know who you are attributing the above quote to. I don't remember seeing anyone say that.
#39
"you know if one our dux's practicioners was to say this same thing..."
No, there is no comparison.
#46
"so what i'm understanding here is that he has no fight experience, but, he probably would win if confronted?"
That is irrelevant (but I would guess that he would - in fact, I have so much faith in his abilities, that he would effectively avoid such a confrontation). What is important, is does Hatsumi-sensei have enough knowledge and skill to pass on to his students so that they would win if confronted. Thousands of people believe he does. Many of those have proven it to themselves - myself included. I have never trained directly with Hatsumi-sensei, but I have trained with people that have so I am not far-removed from the source. Because of that transmission (from a person with no combat experience) I have successfully defended myself in dangerous situations on numerous occasions.
"...maybe that is why some "respectable" ma'rs left to form their own organization."
Yeah, some. Can you name them? My point is you probably can, because there is only a handful. Compared to the thousands that are satisfied with soke's teachings, those few are insignificant.
"its funny how for someone that has never been in any confrontation... could be the source for practicle modern day training."
I guess it's just your sense of humor that makes you find that funny, 'cause as funny as you think it is, it's true.
"he doesn't need experience to know everything that will ever be viable in combat?"
Whose mouth are you putting these words into? How did you decide this was the consensus?
"through all the practicioners here... no one can come up with even any shred of proof that hatsumi has ever been in real combat?"
No one here is trying to prove such a thing. Your agenda (yes you have one) is to disprove that notion (even though no one was trying to prove such a thing in the first place), and you accomplished that. Congratulations.
#49
"so then its settled."
Your question has been answered, yes, but the matter is not settled, because your agenda to debase the Bujinkan is relying on erroneous conclusions drawn from an illogical pool of non-sequitors with no proper antecedent information to back them up - and that is in addition to ignoring the rationally-stated testimonials of the members of this forum who were so kind to take time out of their day to help you.
"hatsumi who has no fighting/combat experience, is passing down something that he learned... from a guy that used it. so in essence, is passing down something that worked hundreds of years ago that might not work today."
You have not provided the sources to properly draw this conclusion. You are trying to obtain the conclusion that Bujinkan skills are ineffective in fights based solely on the experience of the organization's founder.
" so if we look at the other side of the coin dux's students can claim the same thing."
That isn't even the other side of any coin. There is no comparison. This appears to be another part of your agenda - to validate the teachings of Dux. Sorry, but that is a lost cause.
"so are we saying that buj might be a limited art?"
"we?" who in this thread (besides you in that instance) has said that? What logical train of thought did you follow to arrive at that conclusion?
".. since it is only moves that worked back then?"
And how are you drawing this conclusion?
" i know that some will say these are battle tested... but against the samurai. what about street gangs and other types of violence?"
You have completely ignored the mentions of *present-day* Bujinkan students who have tested the skills in battle and on the street. Ignoring the evidence does not make it go away.
Who said anything about samurai in this thread? If you will accept that Takamatsu used his skills in real fights, do you think he faught against samurai?
" i don't know hearing all this makes you stop and think... "
Yeah, it makes us think you have an agenda, and that your skills in logic are dismally lacking.
"this is not ment to offend anyone."
Really?!!
"this is just ment to get some answers."
You got your answers a long time ago, and then you drew illogical conclusions to try to accomplish your mission of debasing the Bujinkan - and what could possibly be your motivation for that?
#59
"so i will ask again..."
Why ask again, if the question has been adequettely answered - numerous times?
"what combat/fighting experience does hatsumi have? the answers have been 'he has none', . . . "
Why is that answer not good enough for you?
" 'your senseis do but your soke doesn't' that to me is a oxy moron. "
You obviously don't know what an oxymoron is then. I would also like to know who you are attributing that quote to.
"i know that many are offended because i have asked these questions. ...the funny thing is there are people here that are apperanlty getting insulted but have no ties to hatsumi... "
People are being offended by your attitude, not your questions. You had one question. It was answered. The people "apperanlty getting insulted" that have no ties to Hatsumi aren't in fact being insulted as such, except by your blatent misuse of logic in trying to carry out your agenda. They are merely trying to correct you where you go wrong. I'm sorry if you find that insulting.
We are putting you on the spot, because this thread lost its usefulness on page 1 - somewhere around post #2 - when the question was answered.
"there should be some clear answers."
Does your computer monitor need some Windex? There was one question, it was answered - clearly.
"... so far just hearsay, propaganda, and insults."
Hearsay, maybe; insults, perhaps - but propaganda? What propaganda has there been in this thread besides you saying that the Bujinkan is bunk?
"lets all find the facts together.
"
What other fact are you trying to find?
