The rant thread

[jks9199]

I found the piece interesting, myself.

But then, I've made similar statements to people directly. In fact, I just explained some of the ideas that underlie the piece to a student a few weeks ago.

 

[Bujingodai]

I am well aware of the Kunoichi meaning.

But nope, can't say that I am on the level with your defence, a feverish one at that. Maybe I'm just not ready to understand it.

Teach me Obi Wan. Make me whimper while others watch in anticipation of having their turns with me.

 

[Dale Seago]

Another telltale sign is whenever someone claims to be "shocked and disgusted".

I don't see that as necessarily being "sanctimonious", just that the point at which -- to use a Budo term -- "their mind stops" tells you a lot about their internal process, much the way varying interpretations of a Rorshach ink blot tell a psychiatrist a lot about the person he's dealing with.

If the prose-poem were actually about anything to do with sex, then the statement that ". . .it may happen that someday these indignities that I perform with my own body upon hers will save her life, or the life of someone she protects" would make absolutely no sense whatsoever within the context of the poem. None of the detractors seem to have ever noticed that part, being too fixated on seeing suki (weak points/vulnerabilities/openings) as orifices.

As they have long said in the Order of the Garter (the world's oldest national order of knighthood, dating to circa 1348), "Honi soit qui mal y pense".

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

If the prose-poem were actually about anything to do with sex, then the statement that ". . .it may happen that someday these indignities that I perform with my own body upon hers will save her life, or the life of someone she protects" would make absolutely no sense whatsoever within the context of the poem.

I take it you haven't seen the anime "Ninja Scroll"? :ultracool

 

[Dale Seago]

I take it you haven't seen the anime "Ninja Scroll"? :ultracool

As a matter of fact, I haven't. . .Should I put that on my to-do list for this weekend?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Your call. :mst:

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Sometimes, the best way to deal with people who are uncooperative in training is to assume the mindset of not attempting to apologize for what you're doing. Anyone else know what I mean?

 

[kaizasosei]

i think i know what you mean.

rebeling aside, who is an authority to begin with?? how does one maintain integrity? how is sovereignity lost to the wrong path?

??

j

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

rebeling aside, who is an authority to begin with??

I'm going to answer this in a way that perhaps may seem a bit farfetched.
Something that occured to me recently is that the movements of Hatsumi, as relayed to me by those who have been to Japan recently, consist of a large quantity of baiting, feinting, distractions (mostly in the form of dakentai) and usage of broken rhythm, or as others have put it, no "technique" is utilized to it's fullest, only to "50 percent".

Now, if I were one of those disillusioned veterans flirting with MMA concepts and yapping on about Budo Taijutsu being a "theoretical" art first and foremost, I would say that the only reason this works in training is because Hatsumi is only working with compliant partners. Fortunately, I'm spoiled with a whole bunch of teachers and thus consider myself capable of seeing beyond that. However, what I believe enables him to do the stuff he does is that special something that is difficult to put a name on, his particular way of totally dominating people mentally and physically by the usage of the space around him and the intentions of all the people involved.

On a rudimentary level, this could perhaps be described as an extension of him being aware of his capability to more than back up what he says (similar to the way police de-escalate potentially violent situations due to their confidence in their assets, i.e. guns, batons, OC spray etc.), but frankly I'm not sure how to best describe it. What I do know however, is that someone who lacks this ability to dominate other people will probably not be successful in trying to mimic Hatsumi's movements but rather provoke further resistance from his uke. It's taken decades of hard work for Hatsumi to get where he's at.

Someone who acknowledges this fact is someone I consider an authority. That, and the willingness to admit that people in the Bujinkan generally could be better at smacking each other up.

how does one maintain integrity?

Lots of things that can be done...don't laugh at jokes you don't find funny just to be polite, leave the room when someone high up insinuates that your posture indicates you were gang-raped by ten African men yesterday etc...

how is sovereignity lost to the wrong path?

It's pretty simple actually. Although it is pretty cool to have a large crew of hangarounds around you, history has shown that as soon as you manage to amass a whole bunch of followers, your mind tends to snap. Just look at Elvis, Axl Rose, Jacko, Mike Tyson, P Diddy, Charles Manson, the sect leader of your choosing etc...
I mean, for women it's normal to hang out in large groups and go to the bathroom together and stuff like that, but as a guy all you're thinking is "holy crap, are ALL these people on MY payroll!?!?"

 

[Dale Seago]

Just for clarification...the negative reactions to Dale's writing was just one example of all the sanctimonious BS you encounter nowadays.

Another telltale sign is whenever someone claims to be "shocked and disgusted".

Well, I've had some further thoughts about it myself after examining it from more of a "big picture" perspective:

http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3691&forum=16

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

My opinion is that a person who starts to teach prematurely is better fodder for the Bujinkan bashers than anything anyone has ever said or written.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

The notion of "training as if you were a boxer" came up elsewhere recently.

For Bujinkan purposes, I don't buy it. Not for one second.

First off, there's the issue regarding consistency - figuring out what you need to work on and keeping at it. However, I really don't think that the vast majority of Bujinkan practitioners who aren't themselves instructors have that much of a say in regards to what they're currently practicing, and I'm at the same time irritated and extremely grateful that is the case. Irritated on behalf of the people who can think for themselves and don't want weeks or months to go by before they're allowed to use the pads again, and grateful because that is the only reason to discover how everything in the Bujinkan is connected with other areas of study.

Second, there's the instructor. I know of people who have gained quite a bit of skill training with instructors who are excellent practitioners themselves, but whose teaching methods leave a lot to be desired. Granted, most of these people are primarily skilled in areas of timing, flow and distance, but can't do school kata, hit people hard enough to move them or parry a bo swing worth a damn, but for purposes of interacting with other practitioners at seminars and in Japan and such, they're probably able to pass for pretty skilled practitioners - at least at first glance. I think I'll leave it at that before I drift further away from the issue at hand.

Third, there's the issue of fitness. Well, sure, but again, I'd wager most people couldn't or wouldn't demand that from their instructor. Of course, this is something that you also have to take responsibility for yourself, but a lot of people need to hear that from their instructor to do so (I know, I was one of them).

Fourth, there's the issue of self-training. It goes without saying that this carries with it an inherent risk of ingraining bad habits. I ALWAYS keep in my mind that whenever I don't understand something, or am able (or unable:ultracool) to do something there's a very real possibility of it having to do with my being unaware of something. This is true in regards to basic locks, throws and school kata as well - to state that they're really not that hard is basically not true in my opinion (well okay, they're technically easy, it's your mind that makes them difficult, more on that in a sec). In order to manipulate and control a human being who refuses to stand still and give up, there is way too much that factors into the equation for me to be able to consistently practice any physical movements that enable me to make them work. At the risk of repeating myself, I can't demand that my instructor allows me to practice the same exact technique over and over for a very long period of time - and I have even less of a possibility to ask the person(s) I'm training with to behave exactly the same every time. For me to get better at this, I need to have a few underlying principles explained to me beforehand, such as the fact that to throw or sweep a person I need to isolate his lower body from his upper body, and similar principles (yes, that's right, I am suggesting the memorization of certain formulas that are needed for things to work. It's worked wonders for me at least.).

What further complicates the issue is that these days there is a common tendency in the Bujinkan to move away from the old behavioristic method of practicing over and over until you have it down, and instead utilize what I would describe as a version of the humanist approach to psychology (feeeee-HEEEEEEEEEEling, wo wo wo...etc). And this is nine years of experience talking, how is someone who recently started training supposed to know this?

Sixth, on being loose, relaxed and responsive. Well, I'd say that is one of the things (along with bend your knees, move your feet, use kamae etc etc etc.) you can say to a beginner a thousand times, and there's no guarantee he's going to truly realize what it is you mean until he's gained more experience. A very rough generalization is that there are three different people who begin practicing Budo Taijutsu and martial arts in general - those who are too soft or "wimpy" which I considered myself to be initially, those who are too hard, macho, aggressive or whatever you want to call it, and those who know exactly how to combine hard and soft in training. You can tell the big and strong guy to loosen up and not take himself so seriously, and you can tell the pencil-necked stereotypical D&D nerd to hit with intent as much as you want - 99.9 percent of the time they're going to have to attain understanding from within, which takes time and hard work.

Having said that, since nobody really listens to what's said online anyway:ultracool there are also those who have their minds so firmly made up that both hardening and freeing their minds is something that's way beyond their rationale. And you can say what you want, but in my experience these people mainly consist of guys in their late thirties or early fourties who have just started training, or teen-aged or 20-something guys who already practiced another style before training in Budo Taijutsu and who has kept on training in that style. I think it's pretty obvious what this says about my views on practicing other styles as a way of developing attributes which will aid you in your Budo Taijutsu training.

In conclusion, while the concepts laid forth are sound in and of themselves, I don't think they're all that feasible in reality without a few modifications.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Amazingly enough, I've finally stumbled upon a situation in which all the technical skill in the world wouldn't have been enough - and managed to come out on top.

It's just before noon and I'm sitting behind the surveillance cameras in an electronics store, when all of the sudden I spot this little kid (eleven years of age as I found out later) grabbing an mp3 player, walking behind a couple of shelves, and stuffing the thing inside his pants. He and his friend then proceed to run out of the store and further into the mall, at which point I run out of the room and follow them to the library where the kid picks up the goods. I walk up to him showing my badge, after which I grab his right sleeve with one hand and the mp3 player with the other. Of course, he says that he hasn't done anything and that he's bought the thing, at which point I tell him to save it because we have it all on camera.

When we reach the bottom of the approximately 30/40 feet long stairs leading up to the store he starts to panic and screams that he hasn't done anything while trying to free himself. Not long after that, a whole bunch of people gather around trying to release my grip on him saying that I have no right to do that and that I'm breaking his arm and all sorts of things.

Now, the usage of force in my jurisdiction works pretty much like this - as long as someone is merely trying to get away and not physically attacking me, I'm not allowed to use anything but controlling holds. As soon as he starts attacking me, however, I'm allowed to hit, but even then it has to be proportionate in regards to the situation. This is also when I'm allowed to use my baton (notice that this is kind of like the difference between fighting and self defense - in reverse :ultracool). My first impulse when encountering resistance was of course to flow into a controlling hold on the kid's arm and wrist. After that, common sense kicks in, and I realize that if I do that I'm both very likely to break something on him, not to mention the potentially violent reaction that may produce from the onlookers. Therefore, I'm pretty much limited to holding on to him with all the force I can muster. Had I been able to use both my arms I might even have been able to drag him up the stairs, but let's not forget I had an mp3 player I couldn't afford to drop.

All the while, people are trying to drag the kid away from me, I don't know if they thought I was trying to rob him or whatever. One guy walks up to me and asks if I'm a cop, to which I respond that I'm an undercover security guard. He's apparently the only one out of all the sheeple with half a brain, because after hearing that he immediately backs away. Somehow I manage to produce my cell phone and call for backup from my uniformed colleagues (of a rivalling company, I might add). For a few seconds, there's nothing for me to do but try to hold on to prevent the kid escaping.

As my insanely good fortune would have it, however, two female undercover police officers appear seemingly from out of nowhere and grab hold of both the kid and the mp3 player, upon which I immediately pull out my badge and show it to the people around me before we start walking up toward the store again. Right at this moment, the uniformed guards appear as well, and while I'm extremely tempted to enlist their help in arresting some of the people in the mob for assaulting a public servant (yes, I have the right to do that), a voice in the back of my head tells me that enough time has passed for someone to pull out his cell phone camera and start filming the whole incident. Therefore, I just yell at them from a distance that the situation is under control and that I'll explain it all later. Understandably, they were a bit PO-ed at me for having called them for what they perceived as no reason, especially as I called upon them to arrest a seven foot tall Russian with large tattoos the day before, at which nothing happened.

So what have I learned from this? To begin with, I failed to adher to an important rule - to keep talking with the suspect as you're leading him back into the room. Furthermore, my flashing my badge for all around to see would probably have saved me quite a bit of hassle - except I had a panicked eleven year old to hang on to in one hand, and the stolen loot in the other. Any attempt on my part to use any type of force on either the kid or the people trying to free him would have gotten me into more trouble, very likely up the point of me losing my job.

Oh, and then there's of course the fact that the behaviour of the onlookers says a lot about the nature of sheeples in general. These are the people we assume to be sensible, reasonable adults with the ability to think by themselves and work together to create a better society with their combined knowledge, experience and understanding.

Heh.

 

[shesulsa]

Good post. I wish you'd post it again in the General Self-Defense section as it's applicable to other LEOs and to anyone who uses control tactics.

I learned something there as well. In general, if I see an adult carting a kid along in the mall or a store, I have - for the most part - assumed it was an unruly child or a theft attempt busted. Good call for the one half-brained person to ask who you were, though it may have been smart for him to ask you to produce your badge.

Hmmm.

So in retrospect, you would have maintained a conversation with the boy during the walk and flashed the badge, but you stated both hands were occupied - do you have a remedy for that? An MP3 player can fit in your pocket, but other things might not.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

So in retrospect, you would have maintained a conversation with the boy during the walk and flashed the badge, but you stated both hands were occupied - do you have a remedy for that?

If I had kept talking to him, there'd be less of a chance of him freaking out. What I usually tell people is that "we can either solve this the easy way if you just give me the stuff and follow me, or we're going to have to call the police right here right now". This way, people think that if they'll do as I say I won't call the police, but all I've really said is that I won't call the police in view of the public. That way, the perps are at least inside your room when they freak out.

An MP3 player can fit in your pocket, but other things might not.

That particular package was too large to fit into a pocket.

 

[shesulsa]

Do you have any way to free up your other hand?

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Some of my colleagues carry bags over their shoulders for this exact purpose. Had this been any other time of the year I might have been able to hide the stuff inside my jacket, but during this incident I wore a shirt and t-shirt.

 

[shesulsa]

Well, I just want to congratulate you for coming out on top here; it sounds as though it definitely could have gotten much nastier than it did.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Amazingly enough, I've finally stumbled upon a situation in which all the technical skill in the world wouldn't have been enough - and managed to come out on top.

It's just before noon and I'm sitting behind the surveillance cameras in an electronics store, when all of the sudden I spot this little kid (eleven years of age as I found out later) grabbing an mp3 player, walking behind a couple of shelves, and stuffing the thing inside his pants. He and his friend then proceed to run out of the store and further into the mall, at which point I run out of the room and follow them to the library where the kid picks up the goods. I walk up to him showing my badge, after which I grab his right sleeve with one hand and the mp3 player with the other. Of course, he says that he hasn't done anything and that he's bought the thing, at which point I tell him to save it because we have it all on camera.

When we reach the bottom of the approximately 30/40 feet long stairs leading up to the store he starts to panic and screams that he hasn't done anything while trying to free himself. Not long after that, a whole bunch of people gather around trying to release my grip on him saying that I have no right to do that and that I'm breaking his arm and all sorts of things.

Now, the usage of force in my jurisdiction works pretty much like this - as long as someone is merely trying to get away and not physically attacking me, I'm not allowed to use anything but controlling holds. As soon as he starts attacking me, however, I'm allowed to hit, but even then it has to be proportionate in regards to the situation. This is also when I'm allowed to use my baton (notice that this is kind of like the difference between fighting and self defense - in reverse :ultracool). My first impulse when encountering resistance was of course to flow into a controlling hold on the kid's arm and wrist. After that, common sense kicks in, and I realize that if I do that I'm both very likely to break something on him, not to mention the potentially violent reaction that may produce from the onlookers. Therefore, I'm pretty much limited to holding on to him with all the force I can muster. Had I been able to use both my arms I might even have been able to drag him up the stairs, but let's not forget I had an mp3 player I couldn't afford to drop.

All the while, people are trying to drag the kid away from me, I don't know if they thought I was trying to rob him or whatever. One guy walks up to me and asks if I'm a cop, to which I respond that I'm an undercover security guard. He's apparently the only one out of all the sheeple with half a brain, because after hearing that he immediately backs away. Somehow I manage to produce my cell phone and call for backup from my uniformed colleagues (of a rivalling company, I might add). For a few seconds, there's nothing for me to do but try to hold on to prevent the kid escaping.

As my insanely good fortune would have it, however, two female undercover police officers appear seemingly from out of nowhere and grab hold of both the kid and the mp3 player, upon which I immediately pull out my badge and show it to the people around me before we start walking up toward the store again. Right at this moment, the uniformed guards appear as well, and while I'm extremely tempted to enlist their help in arresting some of the people in the mob for assaulting a public servant (yes, I have the right to do that), a voice in the back of my head tells me that enough time has passed for someone to pull out his cell phone camera and start filming the whole incident. Therefore, I just yell at them from a distance that the situation is under control and that I'll explain it all later. Understandably, they were a bit PO-ed at me for having called them for what they perceived as no reason, especially as I called upon them to arrest a seven foot tall Russian with large tattoos the day before, at which nothing happened.

So what have I learned from this? To begin with, I failed to adher to an important rule - to keep talking with the suspect as you're leading him back into the room. Furthermore, my flashing my badge for all around to see would probably have saved me quite a bit of hassle - except I had a panicked eleven year old to hang on to in one hand, and the stolen loot in the other. Any attempt on my part to use any type of force on either the kid or the people trying to free him would have gotten me into more trouble, very likely up the point of me losing my job.

Oh, and then there's of course the fact that the behaviour of the onlookers says a lot about the nature of sheeples in general. These are the people we assume to be sensible, reasonable adults with the ability to think by themselves and work together to create a better society with their combined knowledge, experience and understanding.

Heh.

While working at a location the owner caught a teenage breaking into and then reaching in to grab cash/coins from an arcade game. The owner saw him and told him to stop. The kid did not listen and continued with his crime. The owner grabbed him and then proceeded to take him to the office to call for the police. The police did not respond for over an hour. Not life threatening issue so they waited until a two man unit was available. The owner locked the kid into the office where he could not leave.

The police talked to the owner.

They talked to the kid.

They looked at the damage to the machine.

They took the kid home and took kid knapping charges from the parents against the owner for holding their son against his will.

Both cases ended up getting dropped but as it turned out the owner had to spend more money in legal fees then he would have if he just let the kid walk away with the money.

The problem with this is that the owner then had issues with calling the police and preferred to handle things his own way.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Under my jurisdiction, I have the lawful authority to detain people for up to six hours while waiting for the police. As long as I've seen the crime being committed with my own eyes - no sweat.

BTW, that mp3 player cost more than a hundred dollars.