The problem with "traditional" martial arts.

[Jaeimseu]

But let’s be serious... either way, on the ground or on my feet, 3 guys will eventually have their way with me. It’s just a matter of time. Unless of course they’re 10 year olds, then I like my chances a bit better

I agree here, unless those 10 year olds are unusually large. I don’t believe any style realistically prepares students to face multiple attackers intent on causing harm. The “BJJ will get you killed against multiple attackers” crowd somehow forget that you may not have the choice of staying on your feet. Or maybe they think BJJers all train to pull guard in street fights.




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[Flying Crane]

"...are there rocks ahead?"...

...if there are, we’ll all be dead!

 

[JR 137]

I agree here, unless those 10 year olds are unusually large. I don’t believe any style realistically prepares students to face multiple attackers intent on causing harm. The “BJJ will get you killed against multiple attackers” crowd somehow forget that you may not have the choice of staying on your feet. Or maybe they think BJJers all train to pull guard in street fights.




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Yeah, but a 10 year old isn’t going to take an adult’s punch very well, no matter how unusually large he may be. He’ll run away crying.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah, but a 10 year old isn’t going to take an adult’s punch very well, no matter how unusually large he may be. He’ll run away crying.

Okay, Kramer.

 

[JR 137]

Okay, Kramer.

I’m Cosmo Kramer, the assman. I don’t need karate. I can just wring their necks

 

[Buka]

If you believe that you can't defeat multiple opponents - that will be a self fulfilling prophecy. I wish you all the luck in the world. I taught "Controlling and Defeating Multiple Opponents" for years in Federal Law Enforcement to officers, response teams and undercover officers.

So let me ask you guys this - if three people came at you and you couldn't escape......what, you would just give up and take the beating, maybe die? What?

 

[jobo]

If you believe that you can't defeat multiple opponents - that will be a self fulfilling prophecy. I wish you all the luck in the world. I taught "Controlling and Defeating Multiple Opponents" for years in Federal Law Enforcement to officers, response teams and undercover officers.

So let me ask you guys this - if three people came at you and you couldn't escape......what, you would just give up and take the beating, maybe die? What?

So how many times have you defeated multiple attackers then ?

 

[_Simon_]

Okay, Kramer.

I’m Cosmo Kramer, the assman. I don’t need karate. I can just wring their necks

Hahahaha....

I sense another vid clip coming XDXD

 

[hoshin1600]

So let me ask you guys this - if three people came at you and you couldn't escape......what, you would just give up and take the beating, maybe die? What?

Great post!! This really illuminates the bias of conceptual thinking.
There is nothing more real, more awake then when your adrenaline is pumping and it's "GoTime" ...people get lost in the dreamy state of dialog and conceptual thinking. They mistake the dream for reality. Once in a while we need that person who walks up and gives us a dope slap to wake us up.
For me , in this particular instance it revealed the ideological thinking bias of styles and stock arguments and responses that go along with it.

Sorry if I'm not making sense I just woke up.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you believe that you can't defeat multiple opponents - that will be a self fulfilling prophecy. I wish you all the luck in the world. I taught "Controlling and Defeating Multiple Opponents" for years in Federal Law Enforcement to officers, response teams and undercover officers.

So let me ask you guys this - if three people came at you and you couldn't escape......what, you would just give up and take the beating, maybe die? What?

I've been asked before various forms of "how many attackers is too many to beat", and my answer is "I don't know, and won't know until they beat me. If I can't get out of the situation any other way, I'll fight to win until I can't." I've only had a chance to interview a few (maybe only a couple - can't think of more than that at the moment) of people who've ever actually fought multiple attackers. I've found a number of good examples (and a lot of bad ones) in video format. It's clearly possible, especially if you can control one quickly (KO produces a high degree of control) and manage the space and distance so they aren't able to attack at the same time.

Against a well-coordinated group, it all goes to hell quickly, which causes problems in training multiple-attacker scenarios in the training room.

 

[_Simon_]

I remember in my very first style of karate many years ago (considered by many to be a Mcdojo), one of the head instructors said if you're a 1st Dan black belt, you should be able to defend against one person. 2nd Dan, two people. 3rd Dan, you should be able to defend against three. (Not kidding!)

Come ooon, let's round up some 10th Dans and see what happens!

 

[jobo]

I've been asked before various forms of "how many attackers is too many to beat", and my answer is "I don't know, and won't know until they beat me. If I can't get out of the situation any other way, I'll fight to win until I can't." I've only had a chance to interview a few (maybe only a couple - can't think of more than that at the moment) of people who've ever actually fought multiple attackers. I've found a number of good examples (and a lot of bad ones) in video format. It's clearly possible, especially if you can control one quickly (KO produces a high degree of control) and manage the space and distance so they aren't able to attack at the same time.

Against a well-coordinated group, it all goes to hell quickly, which causes problems in training multiple-attacker scenarios in the training room.

We have had this conversation before, yes it's possible dependent on the levels of ability of you v attackers, or big strong, you , they are, how determined they are, how quickly the bouncers break it up etal,

You need the ability to caLapsr any one of them in two or three seconds, to stand even the remotest chance, if you can't do that then it's as good as over, they don't take turns like they do in the movies. if who ever your instructing can't beat any one of them very quickly, there's no point teaching how to fight three
You can not fight three people At once and hope to win, you can if your good fight three people in quick succession
Or learn to fight whilst running backwards at a good speed, running backwards is a much neglected skill

 

[JR 137]

So how many times have you defeated multiple attackers then ?

As a career LEO, I’m sure he’s had to a face more than one bad guy at a time few times until backup arrived.

 

[jobo]

As a career LEO, I’m sure he’s had to a face more than one bad guy at a time few times until backup arrived.

I'm sure he has, but that doesn't mean he has defeated them with out a weapon, I'm sure he can answer for himself.

There was a case in the UK a few years ago, where one bad guy beat up badly about 10 policemen, I really doubt he could teach anyone else who hadn't spent 10 years in steroid induced bodybuilding to do the same

 

[wckf92]

There was a case in the UK a few years ago, where one bad guy beat up badly about 10 policemen,

Did the policemen have firearms?

 

[jobo]

Did the policemen have firearms?

No, they tend not to in the uk, just extendable battons, he brushed them aside like flies, iS one quOte I remember at the time, a number were badly injured

 

[Flying Crane]

I would hope that nobody would just sit back and embrace defeat in the face of multiple assailants. I think most people would give it their all, do what they can.

From the standpoint of an academic discussion, it is fair to recognize that three assailants, if they are not completely incompetent, is a bad situation and you will likely lose.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We have had this conversation before, yes it's possible dependent on the levels of ability of you v attackers, or big strong, you , they are, how determined they are, how quickly the bouncers break it up etal,

You need the ability to caLapsr any one of them in two or three seconds, to stand even the remotest chance, if you can't do that then it's as good as over, they don't take turns like they do in the movies. if who ever your instructing can't beat any one of them very quickly, there's no point teaching how to fight three
You can not fight three people At once and hope to win, you can if your good fight three people in quick succession
Or learn to fight whilst running backwards at a good speed, running backwards is a much neglected skill

Yes. That is the point of the training.

 

[jobo]

Yes. That is the point of the training.

Well as I've sugested, if who ever your training Can't see off an attacker in a few seconds, then there is no point learning how to fight multiples, they would be better Of improving their one to one skills, until they are good enough. to go wiz baNgy thump =floor every time,

It's really bordering on fantasy, to suggest it's any use at all other wise

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well as I've sugested, if who ever your training Can't see off an attacker in a few seconds, then there is no point learning how to fight multiples, they would be better Of improving their one to one skills, until they are good enough. to go wiz baNgy thump =floor every time,

It's really bordering on fantasy, to suggest it's any use at all other wise

I've never said otherwise. Not sure why you keep restating that.