The Point in Forms

[J-kid]

O yeah and i am there offen so you can talk to me in real life about your veiws and check out what we do, I dont mind at all

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

Yeah it is why do you say that/

used to know the old man that was the coach... the bowing thing- I remember that from many years ago- He tried to get it removed from competitive judo. He didn't like the submission ideas behind the bow. where is the school at nowadays? not in bellvue anymore is it?

 

[J-kid]

His school is in renton

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Backtracking abit..... I believe any qualified instructor will agree that one does -not- fight from a horse stance, unless one is riding a horse. It is however used to help isolate movements and build attributes.

There is a difference between a training stance and a fighting stance.

Also, the likelyhood of you encountering an experienced martial artist in a street fight is very slim...the likelyhood of running into someone studying the same art as you slimmer too... unless one likes to pick fights in the parking lot after the tourniment.

 

[Klondike93]

The more I read the more I'm reminded of the saying
"can't see the forest for the trees".





:asian:

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

Well since i have sparred 5-6 green belts or higher that just do tkd kempo etc they have bad punchs , first thing i do is run in close and box with them they get hit start moving back to try kicking and i rush in for the take down. Like i said if you dont wanna believe me on this one challeng a boxer to a boxing match and use your karate etc

GO for it just dont get mad at me when you get hurt

So does sparring 5-6 people make you a seasoned fighter? And how old were they? Seeing as how you are 16, were they younger than you? What was there experience in MA, before you boxed them? And you know what my kenpo does work in the ring. It works against boxing-becuase we use boxing drills. It works against TKD pratitioners becuase we know how to counter. It works in ground fighting becuase we train in that too. What do you want to hear?
Your in Washington state right? Look up a school in WA. It is Aaction Kenpo, the instructors name is Gerald Mitchell. If you want to learn an effective street art, then he will help. If you are just looking for fights the local pub will do for you.

Michael

 

[karatekid1975]

sweeper wrote:

"karatekid1975 I don't think his judo coach teaches any forms, not sure if judo has forms or not though."

Thank you Sweeper. I'm glad you answered my question. Judo-kid didn't (bows gracefully ..... showing my RESPECT to sweeper ...... related to the bowing thing )

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

Well since i have sparred 5-6 green belts or higher that just do tkd kempo etc they have bad punchs , first thing i do is run in close and box with them they get hit start moving back to try kicking and i rush in for the take down. Like i said if you dont wanna believe me on this one challeng a boxer to a boxing match and use your karate etc

GO for it just dont get mad at me when you get hurt

Try that with someone who studies Wing Chun or EPAK.

 

[J-kid]

To answer the questions at hand yes the people i did fight where Green belt and higher in kUnG fu and TkD , and age is 16-21 . I am working on becoming a greater fighter. And sure i will come down and see what you do. how far away from kent is it thanks/

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

To answer the questions at hand yes the people i did fight where Green belt and higher in kUnG fu and TkD , and age is 16-21 . I am working on becoming a greater fighter. And sure i will come down and see what you do. how far away from kent is it thanks/

I am in Springfield Missouri, but in your profile it says WA state. One of our instructors has a school up there also. We have some awesome programs at our school. I think that you would actually find training there enjoyable, even if you were just coming once every few months.

Michael

 

[AvPKenpo]

The school is just east of Spokane.

Michael

 

[sweeper]

just east of spokan = idaho = other side of the state of washington..

 

[AvPKenpo]

Originally posted by AvPKenpo

The school is just east of Spokane.

Michael

:shrug: I guess I should have looked at a map. It is West of Spokane.......sorry.

Michael

 

[fissure]

Judo-kid, if you hope to stay around long enough to become a 'great fighter' as you put it, I suggest NOT running in on a fully trained martial artist.Teenage green belts are one thing, seasoned, experienced fighters are another.Use your new found confidence wisley, or it could get you into a place you are not ready to be in.Remember that many of the people here have trained far longer than you have been alive.Your perceptions of individual arts, as well as fighting concepts will almost certainly change as you grow in experience.Things that you now pass off as insignificant (such as forms) may become invaluable to you in the future ( beleive me I've been there)
As to the horse-riding stance: If you brake down almost any counter situation, where you shift from defensive to offensive motion, you will probably find that the transition stance is horse- riding (or at the least a variant such as the rooted or Sochin type stance).

Most of the TKD forms are just to teach basic techniques.

This tends to be true. I find that TKD forms take "longer" to use complex tech. than most other arts.I would say that most Karate 2nd /1st kyu forms, are on par with 2nd/3rd Dan TKD poomse.
Just one man's opinion:EG:

 

[J-kid]

I didnt know much about forms only that from time to time people tryed using forms agaist me i have seen. Wether it is good for training i have yet to see. BUT being open minded i will try it out.
Final Thoughts. True it seems like a teenager is mouthing off on things he might not under stand (points to himself) but sometimes asking the hard questions is the only way to get things done. I really cant say much about some forms or there point. perhaps condioning ) But i am glad that in a respectable manner many have given there input , (Future plans) I do plan on learning all powerful martial arts, and becoming a UFC fighter, The path ahead may be ruff but its one i chose to take,.

Wether or not i give you my adograph is yet to be seen .

 

[Shinzu]

forms = balance, coordination, focus, spirit, speed, relaxation, tension, concentration, endurance, and power.

some forms are the foundation of the art. never loose sight of your goal. there is always a lesson to be learned. instead of being judgemental, be open minded and humble.

 

[artful dodger]

Shinzu has clearly put time into patterns. People who see patterns as just a series of techniques that may be able to be applied to sparring or self defense, are missing out on a really amazing training tool. It takes a lot of repetitions of patterns/forms to even start to realise their true value, many of which Shinzu stated.

 

[Chiduce]

Judo Kid;
Forms are far more than just conditioning. They are your introduction to basic motion and it's dynamics. At first the forms just seem like repetition, because of your practicing them in their by the numbers phase of understanding. As you develop in your motion studies by practicing these forms, they will start to reveal to you, intermediate motion within this same movement, etc, etc, etc,. The more you practice the form, the more you begin to see that there are other movements, angles of application, and angles of motion within it. As in a previous post about ward-off, roll back, etc, forms reveal your true combative skills. Even a karate kata reveals this same motion analogy. Slow your kata down to the timing of a tai chi form. Execute each movement at this slow speed and examine angles of attack, distance to target, how blocks transform into strikes and how strikes transform into blocks. Examine how any kicking motion will develop and how the mind, and body's lower extremities coordinate to form the kicking motion. Kicking is just an extension of walking. You will find that each form and kata consists of an infinte number of progressive options for your exploration. This is what martial learning is all about. For it is always how you practice on your own which reveals how you learn in class. Also, ask you instructor about training in qi gong or chi kung to help improve your motion dynamics!
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by fissure

This tends to be true. I find that TKD forms take "longer" to use complex tech. than most other arts.I would say that most Karate 2nd /1st kyu forms, are on par with 2nd/3rd Dan TKD poomse.

Back in 1988ish, the Kuk Ki Won (sp?) changed all the forms of TKD thanks to an expose article in Black Belt magazine that demonstrated the incredible similarity between Shotokan forms and TKD forms of the time... Within a year, all TKD forms had been redone, recreated, rechoreographed...

Why do TKD forms take longer to use for complex techniques? Why do the forms of other MAs seem to be of higher quality in comparison? Maybe it is due to the longevity of some forms and their having been created as living documents of actual technique combinations that were used in real life, as opposed to a thrown together set of movements...?

Just a theory, but it seems to fit.

Gambarimasu.

:asian:

 

[fissure]

Why do TKD forms take longer to use for complex techniques? Why do the forms of other MAs seem to be of higher quality in comparison? Maybe it is due to the longevity of some forms and their having been created as living documents of actual technique combinations that were used in real life, as opposed to a thrown together set of movements...?

My personal opinion is that they made the initial and intermediate form simple so that they would be easy to learn.I believe the goal was to make TKD the fastest growing MA around, to this end they succeded.TKD has out paced every other art over the last 20 yrs. or so.In the long term this process basically sucks.Some of the advanced poomse are strong, with the same kind of feel as Shotokan kata that I practice.I think in the long run the Kukkiwon's decision was bad.