The Myth of "Pressure Testing"

[kickcatcher]

I think that the biggest flaw in the author’s reasoning is that he presents “pressure testing” as synonymous with MMA when in fact it is just a training method shared by many martial artists, not least prominent members of the RBSD community. This blurs the lines between the sport and the training method, allowing him to misattribute the perceived weaknesses of the former* to invalidate the latter.

The argument then extends the negative label “sportsfighting” to things like sparring and even fitness training.

It's a devisive tactic and lacks common sense and objectivity.


*which I feel are often taken out of perspective anyway.

 

[shesulsa]

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[RoninPimp]

Well said kickcatcher.

 

[Flying Crane]

Fact: In an SD encounter that involves a single unarmed attacker, your best chance for survival are MMA techniques. The EMPIRICAL evidence is crystal clear.

Would you please define what you mean by "MMA techniques"? How does an MMA sidekick or MMA frontkick or MMA punch or MMA hip throw differ from a traditional frontkick, sidekick, punch or hip throw? Does MMA have an exclusive claim to certain techniques that are not found in other arts?

By its very name, MMA implies techniques taken from several arts. Is it fair to assume that these parent arts were probably traditional arts?

These are honest questions. I am not trying to poke at anyone, but I would appreciate some clarification as I have no involvement with the MMA community. Just trying to understand where you are all coming from.

 

[RoninPimp]

Flying Crane,
I simply mean techniques that have proven effective in MMA competition, whatever their origins may be.

 

[Flying Crane]

Flying Crane,
I simply mean techniques that have proven effective in MMA competition, whatever their origins may be.

ok, so the technique itself, in its simplest form is probably the same, the difference being the user's comfort with it due to experience in use against an opponent who is doing his best to not let you use it on him. Would that sum it up accurately?

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

MMA Competition is not the street. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.
You can train patty cake, or your can train full tilt in any art. Regardless, one of those are anywhere near the reality of a life or death confrontation.
Until you feel your sphincter pucker and the wetness run down your leg knowing that if you are wrong you die, you don't know if it will really work.
Fancy dance steps aren't the same. Rolling in the cage isn't the same thing.

Looking for a fight to see if your **** works is also not smart. Only the fool seeks out battle. It is the king of fools who brags about seeking battle to prove their mettle.

 

[RoninPimp]

ok, so the technique itself, in its simplest form is probably the same, the difference being the user's comfort with it due to experience in use against an opponent who is doing his best to not let you use it on him. Would that sum it up accurately?

-Yes, I would say so.

MMA Competition is not the street.

-Nobody here has said any such thing.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Phil, So thousands upon thousands of fights and sparring sessions by different people all over the world have gotten it wrong?

This would imply that they are somehow "pressure tested" under real world situations, and therefore suitable for street use, when in fact, all it proves is that they will work under controled and regulated situations. Professional wrestling moves can be argued equally effective under the same logic, but I wouldn't want to trust my life to a "VanDaminator".

Out of curiousity though gents, is this a real discussion, or simply more bullshido vs martialist sewage?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Question

I know this is a big discussion and I know I was very involved in it on another post before, but I have begun to wonder if any of these people ever thought of any of this or if they would even have cared.

Ueshiba Morihei
Dong Haichuan
Sun Lutang
Chojun Miyagi
Chotoku Kyan
Yip Mann
Jigoro Kano
Yang Bin Hao
Chen Fake
Chen Zhaopi
Miyamoto Musashi

All were very acomplished fighters/martial artists and most if not all were undefeated, these are very tough guys. And to say the fights and challenges they were involved in were not as tough as anything today would be a serious understatement. Some were fighting in life and death situations others were fighting a challenger that wanted nothing more than to maim or kill them to prove themselves better. And they are all basically traditional martial artists and or founders of a traditional martial art and or sports versions. It would seem to me they would know what pressure was when it comes to fighting.

I guess I am saying what is the big deal. If you do TMA, MMA, SMA, RBSD, boxing, Judo, Wing Chun, JKD, Mauy Tai, Shan Shou, Kung Fu, Karate, Krav Magna, Savate, or Capoeira.

Big deal Tough is tough, skilled is skilled and there is always someone bigger, or tougher, or luckier, for aster.

It all comes down to why we train and what training we feel is best for us. I truly believe there are no bad martial arts, just the occasional bad martial artist. And to be honest whether pressure testing is good or bad, true or false does not change the fact that I train internal CMA and I have great respect for many of the martial artists of all styles that came before me and those that train today.

 

[RoninPimp]

Those techniques have been tested under the most realistic test conditions possible for a single unarmed attacker. Sometimes a SD situation will be similar. Othertimes it won't.

Out of curiousity though gents, is this a real discussion, or simply more bullshido vs martialist sewage?

-I've wanted to engage Phil in this discussion for some time. He has refused to do so until now. I don't care where on the net it is.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Those techniques have been tested under the most realistic test conditions possible for a single unarmed attacker. Sometimes a SD situation will be similar. Othertimes it won't.


-I've wanted to engage Phil in this discussion for some time. He has refused to do so until now. I don't care where on the net it is.

Most realistic test conditions?
Can you cite them, their criteria, and the restrictions imposed on thise tests?

Now, this isn't a threat, challenge, etc, but a purely speculative question here. If you and I were to get into a fight, what techniques would you use against me? How far would it "go"? I can guarentee you that if need be, I would bite you, rip at your eyes, claw, scrape and otherwise use any and all means at my disposal to defeat you. If there is a stick, a rock, a bottle, a chair, or a tire iron within my ability to obtain, I would use it, with the intent to put you into a non-threatening position. You can not do that within a "sparring" or a "competition" environment due to legal and physical concerns.

The UFC may be great to watch, but in a real life situation, with 3 guys bearing down on you, the "Human Submission Machine" is going home in a bag. So is the traditionalist who only trained to pull his shot and play the good partner.

 

[RoninPimp]

Most realistic test conditions?

-Yes, for a single unarmed opponent.

Can you cite them, their criteria, and the restrictions imposed on thise tests?

-That would simply be the rules a particular event is using.

Now, this isn't a threat, challenge, etc, but a purely speculative question here. If you and I were to get into a fight, what techniques would you use against me?

-My basic SD gameplan is "sprawl and brawl". If I'm being out classed in stand up it becomes "ground and pound".

How far would it "go"? I can guarentee you that if need be, I would bite you, rip at your eyes, claw, scrape and otherwise use any and all means at my disposal to defeat you. If there is a stick, a rock, a bottle, a chair, or a tire iron within my ability to obtain, I would use it, with the intent to put you into a non-threatening position.

-Ditto

You can not do that within a "sparring" or a "competition" environment due to legal and physical concerns.

-Agreed.

 

[shesulsa]

Moderator note:

Thread locked pending Admin Review.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Senior Moderator