Appledog
Green Belt
Am I your enemy?
The essence of Tai Chi push hand kung fu
- Thread starter windwalker099
- Start date
What make you to ask this question?
I have 2 MA teachers in my life. In a fight, my
- long fist teacher would pull me back.
- SC teacher would put a knife into my hand.
One year, I took my US SC team to compete in Taiwan (1984). When we passed by Hawaii, we were eating in a restaurant. One of my students had argument with someone. My SC teacher put a steak knife right in front of my student's dinner table with a loud noise. That scared his opponent away.
I respect my SC teacher's spirit (霸气 - Ba Qi). If I want to be a peaceful person, I probably won't train MA at all.
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Appledog
Green Belt
Who is the enemy that you need to chop his head off with a guandao?
I don't think I am your enemy and you are not mine, in fact I like you and I want to visit you someday
I saw a teacher one day, take his whole school out to a thai restaraunt one day. To celebrate their victory in the tournament. The master got into a disagreement with the restaraunt owner about the bill. So he took him into the street and beat him bloody in the street. He needed an ambulance. That is the kind of thing that I don't like.
If my teacher put a steak knife in front of someone having an argument I would feel strange. Just an argument? It better have been something important
That's why I said my SC teacher had "霸气(Ba Qi) - lion spirit" that I respect a lot. Of course, to be a number one assassin for Chinese spymaster "戴笠 Dai Li", his experience was difficult to reproduce.If my teacher put a steak knife in front of someone having an argument I would feel strange. Just an argument? It better have been something important
My students told me that I'm not the person that they would like to meet in a dark alley. That comment made me to feel pretty good. At lease I have developed a small percentage of my SC teacher's "霸气(Ba Qi) - lion spirit".
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Is MA training for peace, or for violence? Is Taiji too peaceful for dealing with violence?
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OP
OP
windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Would appreciate remaining on a topic otherwise start a new thread..
An overview of Taiji methods of push hands (推手, Tuī Shǒu) contrasting different methods and rule sets.
An overview of Taiji methods of push hands (推手, Tuī Shǒu) contrasting different methods and rule sets.
Why do you think to use Taiji skill to deal with violence is not on topic?
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OP
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windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Why do you feel it's necessary to talk about something that's not on topic.
It's easy to stay on topic if you ignore people's questions.
Someone asked me a question and I had to respond to it.
Also, I try to respond to someone's question.
What do you think about this discussion?
A: Taiji PH is ...
B: Who is your Taiji teacher?
A: Sorry my Taiji teacher has nothing to do with this discussion. Please stay on topic.
B: ...
OP
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windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Appreciate your insight and experience. Feel we share many of the same thoughts..
No point in responding to something not relevant.
There is only one point to the study....
although this point may be different for different people.
There are those who know this and others who do not...
It would be better for you and others to share, their thoughts relative to the topic.
Not be sidetracked....
Push hands is not fighting; it is a training method that has been turned into a competition.
Those I've met in Taiwan and China, understand that "it's not fighting," they enjoy the competitive aspects.
They can be rough in their approach. It’s a good way to test whether the principles of Taiji that one claims to practice can actually work in practice. With those, who don't necessarily follow the tenets strictly within a context that most know, agree with, spoken or unspoken...
Some talk about correct practice, and incorrect practice.
Outside of the taiji gym they train in, in meeting with others
they don't seem to understand it's their own practice that is being tested,
not the ones they meet with..
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Martial Arts is, the way most train today, a peaceful (safe) training environment, that gives you skill to deal with a violent confrontation you hope never comes
no
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Appledog
Green Belt
It is on topic. Out of context violence is equivalent to out of context techniques in push hands -- such as starting from a position with one hand on the chest, or grabbing the back of the neck during an 'application'. You might as well suddenly kick someone in the balls during push hands -- push hands it is not, the idea that you can use this technique to win is a violation of the tradition. The discussion over where to use violence appropriately, and under what conditions, is a direct extension of this discussion.
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windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
If you think so..
I've had people try single-leg takedowns and other techniques on me. If your skill is correct, in most cases, it's not possible. Part of the subject of this thread.
However, "push hands" is not fighting. Some may feel it is and try to make it so.
When you have the skill to demonstrate why it's not, others can understand. Talking about it alone doesn't work.
Tradition in martial arts has a broad range.
Not everyone practices with the same traditions in mind.
This is important to understand outside of one's own practice gym.
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Same Trick
Purple Belt
Yang banhou killed his daughter during spear sparring
Same Trick
Purple Belt
Sure push hands isn’t fighting, but limiting away one’s spirit from the possibility of fighting during the practice is there then any true skill to be gained in the sense of proper distance/positioning/timing ?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Per my shifu, this is why traditional Yang now has staff and not spear
OP
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windwalker099
2nd Black Belt
Boxers punch a speed bag for timing and rhythm
Skipping rope coordinates breath, body, and mind
Do boxers train these activities with "fighting" in mind, or do they focus on developing specific skills, understanding that these will enhance their overall fighting ability?
Similarly, internal practices need a live body to train with in order to understand the level of development. Just as boxers use the speed bag, rope skipping, running, etc., to build attributes that are later integrated into the skill of fighting.
The difference, rope skipping, bag work with inanimate objects, are practices for the body to be integrated through sparring.
Internal work needs a " live body" to work with, to test and refine inner practices...
later to be integrated through sparring
The problem with push hands, a training method turned into a competition, the skill development is often neglected in favor of optimizing for the rules to gain an advantage during competition.
By doing so they destroy the
Often seen in the public fails of long time practitioners in meeting with those who don't do push hands,
they do fighting
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