Taekwondo: Out of the Olympic Games after Brazil 2016?

[ETinCYQX]

I can understand what mastercole is saying. In our local tournaments, our national champion/national team member types don't usually compete at local or even state championships, and when they do, they usually take it easy on the outmatched competitors. They usually do just enough to let the other side know that they are outclassed, seriously outclassed. Sometimes the local competitor gets brave, thinking he can pull a rocky and win against the champion. But taekwondo competition has evolved so much that the likelyhood of that happening is incredibly small. Sometimes the local competitor gets knocked out anyway, running into a hook kick or back kick to the face for example, or they come in and get hit so hard in the body that they fold over and can't continue. Or sometimes the local competitor gets in there and intentionally punches the face of the elite athlete, at which point the elite athlete knocks the local competitor out. But usually the local competitor knows he is outclassed, in footwork, speed, timing, experience, etc. that they may try some stuff, but they end up backing off too, because they know if they push it, there is a real possibility of getting seriously hurt.

That's a reasonable point; generally works the same here. The highest level fighters avoid everything including Provincials if possible and most don't fight in the province very often. When they do it's generally a handpicked match against each other or a usual sparring partner.

 

[mastercole]

Okay, you're right. I guess I should find his number and call him up and say, "Hey, you remember me from 3 years ago? Well I just wanted to let you know what's up before I mention you on an Internet forum."

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing like letting him know directly. That way you don't have to take your anger out on others.

 

[SPX]

. . . impress impressionable young people who like your hair. . .

For the record, the "hair" comment was a quote from the movie "The Fast and the Furious," though I admit that to many people that won't be obvious.

For 80s hair though, his is pretty awesome. Like his yellow and maroon dobok with stars on it.

 

[ETinCYQX]

You are avoiding my direct question. But I understand why now.

Am I? You asked if that situation would be appalling and I said it would be a hundred percent OK. I wouldn't call it appalling. It's not quite the same thing as we were discussing but I wouldn't call it appalling regardless. I'd wonder why they'd bothered showing up, to be honest, but I'd be quite excited to see one of the really high level competitors show up.

Why am I avoiding it?

 

[puunui]

It is morally wrong to physically harm others during competition with a motives to take revenge on your old instructor whom you hate, or just to gain glory and impress impressionable young people who like your hair and might consider you there hero, bask in glory, etc.

I agree. But if they maliciously and purposely punch a competitor's face with intent to cause severe physical injury, then at point, it becomes a self defense situation justifying a knockout, in my opinion.

 

[SPX]

Nothing like letting him know directly. That way you don't have to take your anger out on others.

You know, I tried hard to talk to him about a lot of things, but I kept getting interrupted mid-way in the first sentence that came out of my mouth.

 

[mastercole]

For the record, the "hair" comment was a quote from the movie "The Fast and the Furious," though I admit that to many people that won't be obvious.

For 80s hair though, his is pretty awesome. Like his yellow and maroon dobok with stars on it.

If you say so. And, for the record, I don't know if you are male of female, if that matters.

 

[SPX]

If you say so. And, for the record, I don't know if you are male of female, if that matters.

I'm male. Though I might go gay for Steve Vick.

 

[mastercole]

Am I? You asked if that situation would be appalling and I said it would be a hundred percent OK. I wouldn't call it appalling. It's not quite the same thing as we were discussing but I wouldn't call it appalling regardless. I'd wonder why they'd bothered showing up, to be honest, but I'd be quite excited to see one of the really high level competitors show up.

Why am I avoiding it?

You know why. I could direct you back to what I wrote in the post, but you are already aware of it, because you have been skirting the issue all along. Again, it's OK. I really just wanted to know where you and your instructors stand on the issue of highly skilled fighters not taking it easy, and going for the knockout when they face novice unskilled participants, and now I know. Thank you.

 

[mastercole]

That's a reasonable point; generally works the same here. The highest level fighters avoid everything including Provincials if possible and most don't fight in the province very often. When they do it's generally a handpicked match against each other or a usual sparring partner.

But according to your logic, and that of your instructors, if the unskilled did somehow end up in the ring with the skilled, and the skilled recognized the great disparity of the situation, he should go in for the kill anyway and knockout the unskilled player, because, they are the same weight and both wear the black belt. So let the teeth fall where they may.

 

[ETinCYQX]

No, really I don't. I've told you my views on each situation you've offered, each one different from the last, and I don't know what question you think I'm avoiding.

 

[mastercole]

I agree. But if they maliciously and purposely punch a competitor's face with intent to cause severe physical injury, then at point, it becomes a self defense situation justifying a knockout, in my opinion.

Oh, without a doubt.

 

[ETinCYQX]

But according to your logic, and that of your instructors, if the unskilled did somehow end up in the ring with the skilled, and the skilled recognized the great disparity of the situation, he should go in for the kill anyway and knockout the unskilled player, because, they are the same weight and both wear the black belt. So let the teeth fall where they may.

Sure. No different than Micheal Jordan thrashing some knob in a game of one on one or anything to that regard.

I'm sure you know this but I don't mean go wildly for the knockout, I mean win the fight without holding back whichever way happens. I didn't say I'd do it every time but I don't fault anyone for it even at the local level. If you want me to agree with you, fine, if in some alternate universe I was a Canadian champion or prospect to become such, I probably wouldn't come home to Newfoundland provincials and tear everyone's head off. Doesn't mean I consider it wrong.

 

[mastercole]

Sure. No different than Micheal Jordan thrashing some knob in a game of one on one or anything to that regard.

I'm sure you know this but I don't mean go wildly for the knockout, I mean win the fight without holding back whichever way happens. I didn't say I'd do it every time but I don't fault anyone for it even at the local level. If you want me to agree with you, fine, if in some alternate universe I was a Canadian champion or prospect to become such, I probably wouldn't come home to Newfoundland provincials and tear everyone's head off. Doesn't mean I consider it wrong.

Thanks for clarifying that. I'm glad we were able to figure all this out in such a short time.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Yeah, it's only 5 am here

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Right, because in your imagination all black belts are skilled competitors. I guess as a black belt yourself, you consider yourself to be a skilled competitor?

In what Ive learned, definetly (except for the competitor bit). There is no way an unskilled novice gets a black belt where I train. Could I compete in a wtf comp, hell no, I dont even know the rules. But then could your boy steven compete in a boxing touurnament, off course not. In what I do I am black belt standard, 2nd dan in june if all goes well.

 

[Cyriacus]

In what Ive learned, definetly (except for the competitor bit). There is no way an unskilled novice gets a black belt where I train. Could I compete in a wtf comp, hell no, I dont even know the rules. But then could your boy steven compete in a boxing touurnament, off course not. In what I do I am black belt standard, 2nd dan in june if all goes well.

And hopefully it will.

Now, on topic, Skillsets for a Black Belt will vary from place to place. Especially KKW Dojangs. Which stems back to how Theyre being taught. Some KKW Dojangs are more like Kicking Gyms with other stuff. Some are more SD Oriented. To put both at opposite ends of a spectrum, from side A, You may have a Black Belt whod lose to a Green Belt. On the other side, You may have a Black Belt who should have had it when He WAS a Green Belt. But by another Dojangs Standards, That Black Belt who should have had it when He was a Green Belt might be a Beginner in the grand scheme of things. Its a complicated topic, and there is no "This is the Answer". Only, the Answer will Vary from Dojang to Dojang.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

And hopefully it will.

Now, on topic, Skillsets for a Black Belt will vary from place to place. Especially KKW Dojangs. Which stems back to how Theyre being taught. Some KKW Dojangs are more like Kicking Gyms with other stuff. Some are more SD Oriented. To put both at opposite ends of a spectrum, from side A, You may have a Black Belt whod lose to a Green Belt. On the other side, You may have a Black Belt who should have had it when He WAS a Green Belt. But by another Dojangs Standards, That Black Belt who should have had it when He was a Green Belt might be a Beginner in the grand scheme of things. Its a complicated topic, and there is no "This is the Answer". Only, the Answer will Vary from Dojang to Dojang.

True, and if I was a school owner I would not to be sending sub par students off to competitions to represent my school. The quality of black belts says a lot about a school in my opinion.

 

[mastercole]

True, and if I was a school owner I would not to be sending sub par students off to competitions to represent my school. The quality of black belts says a lot about a school in my opinion.

Which brings up an interesting topic. How does one determine what a quality black belt is? By who's standard? Are you or I in a position as black belt holders to judge the quality of another schools black belt students?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Which brings up an interesting topic. How does one determine what a quality black belt is? By who's standard? Are you or I in a position as black belt holders to judge the quality of another schools black belt students?

Good question. I think Id start by working out the bare minimum level required. I would probably have that minimum standard at a point where it could never be described as "unskilled or novice" by another black belt. I also think black belt is a mental thing, and I think seeing people genuinely looking scared and back pedalling goes against the mindset of a black belt, the indominatable spirit. Im not so much surprised they are black belt as much as Im disappointed that an instructor would send that guy off to a tournament where they are way out of their depth. Surely the coach/instructor owes it to their student to say "you are not ready to compete yet?" ie you are not a black belt yet.