Strating your own System, That is the Question???????

[RRouuselot]

1)I suppose much of it rests on forethought and knowledge.

2)If you know that your style isnt really some "secret style" taught to your master by some Chinese Monk while he was in Korea with the Army and It has a Japanese name (actually heard that one from a local instructor). But you are using it for marketing, its wrong.

3)If somebody points out to you that your lineage is false but you never knew it...big deal. And if I was dealing with an honest/decent person I wouldnt make it into one.

1)True. If someone makes up some line of BS for personal gain then I would object.

2)Again, I agree, and have seen it several times.

3)On the other hand if someone points this out and you continue to market it with all the same BS as before it’s a problem.



When I first started training I studied a Chinese style under a guy that claimed when we reached a certain rank we had to be adopted by the founder’s family that was based in Canton, China. This was due to the “fact” that he could only teach “family members”….even though he was white. He claims he would send the “paper work” off and we would be registered as a family member. Even though I was young this sounded a bit stupid to me. However I liked the style and continued training, eventually I got tired of the various BULL this guy was shoveling and quit.

Years later after studying Chinese in China I had a look at my old certificates to see what they said….they were a bunch of crap.

As I said before I liked the style and while in China actually found someone who had trained in the same style. What I had learned was evidently incorrect and needed lot’s of corrections. I asked them about all the “family” stuff and they said what I was told was nonsense.
So what I learned in the US from the BS artist was for the most part not very good and I got the added bonus of listening to all his made up BS.
All in all I guess I got the "mushroom treatment" from him, (being kept in the dark and fed a bunch s.....), and paying for it.
The guy still teaches to this day.......he is a "Grand master" now too.

 

[47MartialMan]

1)True. If someone makes up some line of BS for personal gain then I would object.

2)Again, I agree, and have seen it several times.

3)On the other hand if someone points this out and you continue to market it with all the same BS as before it’s a problem.

Yes, I do not attempt to market the two instructors, in particular, I had. or myself from their instruction as theirs being my current art. In fact, when I do mention them, it is out of casual conversation or to state how their methods of teaching were. I do not claim my ranking from them. I too am skeptic of the same things. I am even skeptic of Chi, although I still remain "open-minded" about it.

When I first started training I studied a Chinese style under a guy that claimed when we reached a certain rank we had to be adopted by the founder’s family that was based in Canton, China. This was due to the “fact” that he could only teach “family members”….even though he was white. He claims he would send the “paper work” off and we would be registered as a family member. Even though I was young this sounded a bit stupid to me. However I liked the style and continued training, eventually I got tired of the various BULL this guy was shoveling and quit.

Years later after studying Chinese in China I had a look at my old certificates to see what they said….they were a bunch of crap.

As I said before I liked the style and while in China actually found someone who had trained in the same style. What I had learned was evidently incorrect and needed lot’s of corrections. I asked them about all the “family” stuff and they said what I was told was nonsense.
So hwat I learned in the US from the BS artist was for the most part not very good and I got the added bonus of listening to all his made up BS.
All in all I guess I got the "mushroom treatment" from him. (being kept in the dark and fed a bunch s.....)

But what if the guy had actually had a Chinese write it? How can the paper, if written so well, be validated or not validated?

I see where you have developed this crusade to debunk. So you were in the same boat as I was. It would be a different train of thought altogether if you or I was still training from these past "instructors"

However, can you credit this guy (your "instructor") you speak of with any knowledge or something per routine or method or anything that you may have learned-besides the obvious? Is he still there? Do you still have these "certificates"?

The bottom line with my situation, of both of the instructors I speak specifically of, is that they changed their names. And why not? They move on and have to change their names again. Thus, it is a endless cycle.

We learn and move on, bro. And we continue to strive to do better. It hasnt made us "less" of martial artists.

 

[RRouuselot]

1) But what if the guy had actually had a Chinese write it?

2) How can the paper, if written so well, be validated or not validated?

3) I see where you have developed this crusade to debunk.

4) So you were in the same boat as I was.

5) However, can you credit this guy (your "instructor") you speak of with any knowledge or something per routine or method or anything that you may have learned-besides the obvious? Is he still there? Do you still have these "certificates"?

6) The bottom line with my situation, of both of the instructors I speak specifically of, is that they changed their names. And why not? They move on and have to change their names again. Thus, it is a endless cycle.

7) We learn and move on, bro. And we continue to strive to do better. It hasnt made us "less" of martial artists.

1)They weren’t hand written.

2)By the content of what they said.

3)Actually, No you don’t. I have never been on a crusade. I have never gone out of my way to find BS artists. They usually post something that is BS I and call them out on it. Then they back peddle, make all kinds of excuses, tell even more lies, whine, and pout, throw temper tantrums and so on…..

4)Not really. My instructor used a real name, not 2 last names, and I realized he was full of it but kept training until I got tired of hearing it.

5)I do not credit him with teaching me anything really. I threw the certificates away about 25 years ago when I found out they were nonsense.

6)They sound like a couple of real dirt bags.

7) I’m not your “bro”.

 

[47MartialMan]

1)They weren’t hand written.

2)By the content of what they said.

3)Actually, No you don’t. I have never been on a crusade. I have never gone out of my way to find BS artists. They usually post something that is BS I and call them out on it. Then they back peddle, make all kinds of excuses, tell even more lies, whine, and pout, throw temper tantrums and so on…..

4)Not really. My instructor used a real name, not 2 last names, and I realized he was full of it but kept training until I got tired of hearing it.

5)I do not credit him with teaching me anything really. I threw the certificates away about 25 years ago when I found out they were nonsense.

6)They sound like a couple of real dirt bags.

7) I’m not your “bro”.

1.) The so-called Okinawan Japanese one is. The Korean one is mass-produced and not associated in a real sense.

2.) Same as what I had.

3.) Back peddle. I have I claimed skills or proficiency from those bogus teachers I had? We were taken by these people? We werent in the same boat?

4.) Does he still teach? Can you locate him still?

5.) No evidence of these existing anymore-huh.

6.) They were, which is why I was at first hesitant to name them, knowing I may get some flame from them. Perhaps I should have made a notation that I had doubts about them/him in the posting of a name.

7.) No offense, I cant get that silly word out of my head. A friend was over visting just recently and he kept saying it. It will take me a liitle while to clear it out of my head.

 

[RRouuselot]

1.) The so-called Okinawan Japanese one is. The Korean one is mass-produced and not associated in a real sense.

3.) Back peddle. I have I claimed skills or proficiency from those bogus teachers I had? We were taken by these people? We werent in the same boat?

4.) Does he still teach? Can you locate him still?

5.) No evidence of these existing anymore-huh.

1) I wasn't refering to yours.
3) was I talking about you?
4) Already answered half that question.
5) No need to keep them. I don't do or teach that style and never will.

 

[47MartialMan]

1) I wasn't refering to yours.
3) was I talking about you?
4) Already answered half that question.
5) No need to keep them. I don't do or teach that style and never will.

1.) I was thinking so, but gave info. fyi

3.) ditto

4.) Just curious. Wanted to "look" it up

5.) My sentiments exactly

 

[The Kai]

How about this?

I found mt own style "Stumble Foot Do" - Okay
I have certificates to prove I have a Black Belt in Karate
I also have a bunch of neat certs from assorted seminars
However, i freely admit most of the genius of the system cmame from my small mind
No lineage, No History, No secret teaching
Just my own thing
How would that fly??

 

[terryl965]

Great Kai sound like my Coach Potato style in a earlier post. We are now GrandMaster of bogus styles let get together and have a coming out party.

 

[beauty_in_the_sai]

Every martial art started out through a person or group of people making them up. So if the Asians of old can do it, why can't we? I've made up my own martial art that takes everything I love in the martial arts I've learned thusfar and mixes them together with dance. I love TKD's kicks and hand strikes, ninjutsu's weapons, and JKD's stepping. Mix 'em all together and you have my personal, orginal art that has no ranking system as I'm the only one who knows it and I doubt I'll ever want to teach it. If I do, I'm still going to leave rank out of it. Martial arts should be about you, not someone else's opinion of how you should fight. If you want to make up your own art, I say learn the basics from a style first at least, then go right ahead with making up your own. Piece of advice though: Don't tell other people you did. They'll be like, what's wrong with you? I found that out firsthand. LOL

 

[The Kai]

Every martial art started out through a person or group of people making them up. So if the Asians of old can do it, why can't we? I've made up my own martial art that takes everything I love in the martial arts I've learned thusfar and mixes them together with dance. I love TKD's kicks and hand strikes, ninjutsu's weapons, and JKD's stepping. Mix 'em all together and you have my personal, orginal art that has no ranking system as I'm the only one who knows it and I doubt I'll ever want to teach it. If I do, I'm still going to leave rank out of it. Martial arts should be about you, not someone else's opinion of how you should fight. If you want to make up your own art, I say learn the basics from a style first at least, then go right ahead with making up your own. Piece of advice though: Don't tell other people you did. They'll be like, what's wrong with you? I found that out firsthand. LOL

How wonderfully Naive, please don't let the world ever stop you polyannic trip.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Moderator Note.
Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314



Please, return to the original topic.



Sheldon Bedell

MT Mod


let stick to these 4 questions

1) What is the mininum rank a person should hold before starting their own system??

2) How long should a person have studied and or had time in grade?

3) What other requirements should a person have?

4) Should there be some type of exam board or accrediation board for testing to ensure high standards?

 

[RRouuselot]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Every martial art started out through a person or group of people making them up.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]So if the Asians of old can do it, why can't we?

3)[font=&quot] [/font]I've made up my own martial art that takes everything I love in the martial arts I've learned thusfar and mixes them together with dance.

4)[font=&quot] [/font]I love TKD's kicks and hand strikes, ninjutsu's weapons, and JKD's stepping. Mix 'em all together and you have my personal, orginal art that has no ranking system as I'm the only one who knows it and I doubt I'll ever want to teach it. If I do, I'm still going to leave rank out of it.

5)[font=&quot] [/font]Martial arts should be about you, not someone else's opinion of how you should fight. If you want to make up your own art, I say learn the basics from a style first at least, then go right ahead with making up your own. Piece of advice though: Don't tell other people you did. They'll be like, what's wrong with you? I found that out firsthand. LOL

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Developed might be a better word than “made up”.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]Those Asians didn’t develop their arts over a weekend, nor did they do it for profit or fame….they did it to save their butts. An entirely different mind set than most MA people have today.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]How effective do you think it is?

4)[font=&quot] [/font]How long have you trained in those arts?

5)[font=&quot] [/font]MA should be about protection.

 

[ninhito]

okay, lets say the person say and heard about the tsunami in south east asia around those parts okay. His light went on and thought hey if i fought like this i could over welm my enemies. Okay so he goes to the club and gets into a fight with this HUMONGOUS guy, i mean like huge guy, but because he thought i must overwhelm him before he gets me, this guy just punches and kicks and chokes and overwhelms the guy. The fight seises but the guy it still around and the guy who started his own ryuha was really tired from all that hasted work. He says i have to land that guy on his *** before he blows me away so he goes home. He figures and experiments with his freinds and fights with some of old freinds from the surounding dojos getting the crap beat out of them. he sees the mechanics and notices the difference whether the art be central body power or precision based or what. The guy the whole time thinks I have to be able to land that guy on his *** so he tries some stances that he saw in some of his, lets say iaido, and he says wow this could be really useful if the guy were charging me. then he makes a stance up thinking but if the guy were to just sock me and get in defenseive position, knowing he just wants to fight, then i get into this atack position. Then the guy gets the crap beat out of him by an aikido guy and the aikido guy says what kinda stances were those, I've never seen them before. The guy says they're mine and the aikido guy says OOO yeah your trying to make your own ryu and then the aikido guy says wow your ryuha has sure lost its philosophy. The guy gets reminded and gets back to his central work on making a RYUHA, because there is only so many ways the body can move so new techniques are almost out of the picture now but philosphies can still be achieved, so he figures to overwhelm the guy he fought, waaaaaaaaaay back when in the bar whose name he cant even remember, and says how to overwhelm him then he thinks ooo yeah i could jump in the air and punch and kick in the face. So the guy goes to test out his ryu on one of his many martial art freinds and beats them. They all say they never exected to be punched in the face by a punch, followed by a knee. So the guy calls his ryuha tobikoendo tsunami ryu(im going for jumping tsunami ryu)...an there ya go...

 

[VSanhodo]

Here is a reason why things like honesty, integrity in the MA are important.
On this website the guy claims all kinds of ranks titles and what have you.

Notice the part that says:

Appointed to the Dragon Society International (DSI) research team by Professor Rick Moneymaker.



http://budogeeks.tzo.com/bio.htm



Yet on this title we get to see a more honest bio.

Notice the part about Moneymaker on this website



http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/relics/MJD.html


So would you want this guy teaching you or members of your family? Your kids?

Robert:
If you ever get the chance to speak to Mr Shull ask him about the time he and I went to a Moneymaker Seminar. I havent laughed so hard in my life.
Thanks again for your posts

San

 

[RRouuselot]

Robert:
If you ever get the chance to speak to Mr Shull ask him about the time he and I went to a Moneymaker Seminar. I havent laughed so hard in my life.
Thanks again for your posts

San

OK, now I'm dying to know!
Can you shoot me an email and tell me what happend?

 

[BruceCalkins]

That is always a good question. As for Starting your own system. I think several things need to apply.

1 You should have time in the arts. Not just 3-5 years but time... I have been in the arts 37 years...

2 You should hold ranks in all the systems your new art is going to be made out of. So you understand the arts. Our system is made of, Ninjitsu, Shaolin Kung-Fu, Aikido, Kenpo, ect.. and I hold at least a 1st degree Black in all of these and permission to teach them. I also put Jui-Jitsu in our system (I have little experence in it) But my Co-Instructor is a Black Belt of 14 years in the style so it is his knowledge that is added.

3 As for Exam... There are several Sokeship boards that will test your system and you. Their Board of Yodansha is of mixed martial arts and will look at the valid aspects of the art and how you present it. I had to offer a resume, Bio, and Manual to the board for inspection then do a thesis of why my art was different and then demonstrate my ability to teach it.

We all need to just remember no mater what style we teach, No mater what it is called. We are All Martial Artist. Sprung from the same well, Buddha Darma in 525bc. A Front Kick is a Front Kick and a Side Kick is a Side Kick no matter what we call it.

Have fun and explore all the arts.

 

[RRouuselot]

A Front Kick is a Front Kick and a Side Kick is a Side Kick no matter what we call it.

So is a "Soke" front kick different than say a 8th dan front kick?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

That is always a good question. As for Starting your own system. I think several things need to apply.

1 You should have time in the arts. Not just 3-5 years but time... I have been in the arts 37 years...

2 You should hold ranks in all the systems your new art is going to be made out of. So you understand the arts. Our system is made of, Ninjitsu, Shaolin Kung-Fu, Aikido, Kenpo, ect.. and I hold at least a 1st degree Black in all of these and permission to teach them. I also put Jui-Jitsu in our system (I have little experence in it) But my Co-Instructor is a Black Belt of 14 years in the style so it is his knowledge that is added.

3 As for Exam... There are several Sokeship boards that will test your system and you. Their Board of Yodansha is of mixed martial arts and will look at the valid aspects of the art and how you present it. I had to offer a resume, Bio, and Manual to the board for inspection then do a thesis of why my art was different and then demonstrate my ability to teach it.

We all need to just remember no mater what style we teach, No mater what it is called. We are All Martial Artist. Sprung from the same well, Buddha Darma in 525bc. A Front Kick is a Front Kick and a Side Kick is a Side Kick no matter what we call it.

Have fun and explore all the arts.

well since this is a hot topic as of late, let me be the first to ask this question. you state that you have at least a 1st degree black belt in these systems, which system did you have at least a 10th degree black?

there are a lot of people in the martial arts world that think having 10(ten) 1st degree rankings is the same as having 1(one) 10th dan ranking.
in reality, this is just having shodan knowledge in 10(ten) different arts.
that is of course if the shodan rankings were all received legitimately

 

[The Kai]

Is Shodan ranking indictive of knowing the system???

 

[Aegis]

Another 10th Dan... Just what the world needed

I always find it interesting that there have only been about 11 10th dan holders in judo in the century-and-a-bit of its existance, and yet there seem to be hundreds of 10th dans in America...