Strating your own System, That is the Question???????

[Tgace]

Then....Does lineage matter?
When?
Why?

 

[47MartialMan]

Does lineage matter?

When?
Why?

Does it?

For what purpose(s)?

I forgot to add; Is it about making mistakes and sharing aspirations and to continue to learn?

 

[Tgace]

I never really thought it did, unless I was under the impression that the instructor was outright lying about it to make $$ or had some wacky stories about the history of his style and where/how he learned it.

 

[47MartialMan]

I never really thought it did, unless I was under the impression that the instructor was outright lying about it to make $$ or had some wacky stories about the history of his style and where/how he learned it.

Even you had found he did,
Does this make you less of what you are or can further become? Again, does this make you have no abilties, you less of or not an instructor, and you less of a martial artist? Does this make you have less of a overall contribution?

Is lineage somewhat like the anaolgy of whom is whom, whon taught whom, or whom is regal?

 

[Tgace]

I suppose much of it rests on forethought and knowledge. If you know that your style isnt really some "secret style" taught to your master by some Chinese Monk while he was in Korea with the Army and It has a Japanese name (actually heard that one from a local instructor). But you are using it for marketing, its wrong. If somebody points out to you that your lineage is false but you never knew it...big deal. And if I was dealing with an honest/decent person I wouldnt make it into one.

 

[RRouuselot]

Then....Does lineage matter?
When?
Why?

The ONLY time lineage ever concerns me is when people lie about it.

I don’t care if someone makes up a style but when they claim things that aren’t true is when they lose respect.

 

[47MartialMan]

If you know that your style isnt really some "secret style" taught to your master by some Chinese Monk while he was in Korea with the Army and It has a Japanese name (actually heard that one from a local instructor). But you are using it for marketing, its wrong. If somebody points out to you that your lineage is false but you never knew it...big deal. And if I was dealing with an honest/decent person I wouldnt make it into one.

I see, as long it is not a premeditive manulipaltion tactic for monetary gains?

And if I was dealing with an honest/decent person I wouldnt make it into one.

And how, praytell, can you judge someone as either on a forum without actually meeting them?

I suppose much of it rests on forethought and knowledge.

Look at lineage or a practitioner this way:
Say the practitioner is a driver of an automobile.
The automobile is the lineage and/or martial art style.
The driver had much influences from what sources that say, an Oldsmobile is a fine car.
His first Oldsmobile, was ok, but he wanted a new one for whatever reason(s) (Too old, was stolen, too many repairs).
So still under past influences, he obtains another Oldsmobile. In his view, it is better than the first. But it gets to the point of maybe it is missing something.
So the driver, after sometime, gets yet another Oldsmobile, with many other features, a more expensive one.
Now, this is where it gets deep.
Other people/drivers who see the driver at a traffic light and examines the Oldsmobile in this brief moment. Thus, one other driver does not like Oldsmobiles.
Now the conclusion;
If the Oldsmobile is a vehicle of transportation to get the driver from point A to Point B, what difference is it of the maker of the vehicle? Will it change the driver in need of transportation? If he had been driving for 20, 30, or 40 years, does this make him less of a experienced driver because of his choice in car? If his first car was a "lemon", should he not get another car from the same maker? (Example-Lemon car-Oldsmobile Auroa.....better car from same maker-Oldsmobile Cutless)

 

[Tgace]

As long as he isnt really driving an entirely different vehicle with Olds markings on it and handing out flyers or singing its praises so people will come to his dealership....

 

[RRouuselot]

Here is a reason why things like honesty, integrity in the MA are important.
On this website the guy claims all kinds of ranks titles and what have you.

Notice the part that says:

Appointed to the Dragon Society International (DSI) research team by Professor Rick Moneymaker.



http://budogeeks.tzo.com/bio.htm



Yet on this title we get to see a more honest bio.

Notice the part about Moneymaker on this website



http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/relics/MJD.html


So would you want this guy teaching you or members of your family? Your kids?

 

[47MartialMan]

Here is a reason why things like honesty, integrity in the MA are important.

I didnt claim they are not.

and Tgace said it nicely:

I suppose much of it rests on forethought and knowledge. If you know that your style isnt really some "secret style" taught to your master by some Chinese Monk while he was in Korea with the Army and It has a Japanese name (actually heard that one from a local instructor). But you are using it for marketing, its wrong. If somebody points out to you that your lineage is false but you never knew it...big deal. And if I was dealing with an honest/decent person I wouldnt make it into one.

 

[47MartialMan]

As long as he isnt really driving an entirely different vehicle with Olds markings on it and handing out flyers or singing its praises so people will come to his dealership....

Yes..... so we now come to yet another analogy....the "salesman" of the car.

 

[47MartialMan]

The ONLY time lineage ever concerns me is when people lie about it.

I don’t care if someone makes up a style but when they claim things that aren’t true is when they lose respect.

I agree. But how can you conclusively state something is not true per someone with a hidden id, for whatever reason, did not exist?

 

[RRouuselot]

I didnt claim they are not.

it wasn't directed at you

 

[47MartialMan]

it wasn't directed at you

OK, I was just making a general statement to make something clear.

 

[RRouuselot]

I agree. But how can you conclusively state something is not true per someone with a hidden id, for whatever reason, did not exist?

If some red flags pop up ask questions, do some research, check facts, more research.....eventually you will get an answer


(how's that certificate coming anyway? )

 

[47MartialMan]

If some red flags pop up ask questions, do some research, check facts, more research.....eventually you will get an answer


(how's that certificate coming anyway?)

Can that, or even a photo, prove or disprove anything?
Can supplying contact info, per others whom know about it also?

You have it in your mind to dismiss anything anyway.

 

[RRouuselot]

1) Can that, or even a photo, prove or disprove anything?
Can supplying contact info, per others whom know about it also?

2) You have it in your mind to dismiss anything anyway.

1) I don't know until I have seen it.
2) Do I? I am not sure but I think in psychology they call your comment "projecting"....even if I do there is no harm in sending it. You have my email address.

 

[47MartialMan]

1) I don't know until I have seen it.
2) Do I? I am not sure but I think in psychology they call your comment "projecting"....

Yes, but when and if I allow you to see it, still given your commentary so far, I "project" that you will dismiss it and stand behind your train of thought.

No harm...it what way can you not dismiss it

And he we go again...hi-jacking a thread.

Back to:

Does this make him/I have no abilties, less of or not an instructor, and less of a martial artists? Does this make him/I have less of a overall contribution?

Could he have not been a oriental whom created his own martial art and instructed some younger minds?

Could he have or not have certification. If yes, how can this validate it? If no, how does this change if he taught well? What if he had simply printed them? or what if he had simply hand-wrote them?

I can prove by any of these, but the proof will not deviate your mind set.

And, no, I have not decided to create my own system for i know I want more to learn...

Peace

 

[RRouuselot]

As long as he isnt really driving an entirely different vehicle with Olds markings on it and handing out flyers or singing its praises so people will come to his dealership....

That just reminded me of those people in Palm Springs CA. that drive around in golf carts that have Mercedes and Rolls Royce ornaments on the hood.

 

[47MartialMan]

That just reminded me of those people in Palm Springs CA. that drive around in golf carts that have Mercedes and Rolls Royce ornaments on the hood.

...were these actually sold by a Mercedes/Rolls dealer? (the carts).