Sport And TMA....Again

[ballen0351]

Unfortunately you still haven't gotten an honest answer to your question. I think its good to ask it again.

"How are NHB rules biased against "traditional" martial arts?"

You show me a real no rules fight and you will have your answer. ANY sporting event will have rules even if unwritten nobody's going to try to gouge out your eyes or start dropping elbows on your throat. Its not a real fight its a game.

 

[TFP]

You show me a real no rules fight and you will have your answer. ANY sporting event will have rules even if unwritten nobody's going to try to gouge out your eyes or start dropping elbows on your throat. Its not a real fight its a game.

The guy Royce beat in UFC 1, the guy who bit him fought as if it "was a real fight". Heater in another organization eye gouged a fighter. He fought real, he fought "dirty". So I guess we have our answer.


also already posted by myself, but here again is Royce vs Delucia, no rules......

http://youtu.be/jd1KDz1X7iE


oh and I find it funny how people were screaming "there are rules in th UFC!" And when I show evidence there were actually not rules in the first UFC's, now it's "well man has a socially acceptable amount of rules" so it's still rules.....:BSmeter::BSmeter:

 

[ballen0351]

The guy Royce beat in UFC 1, the guy who bit him fought as if it "was a real fight". Heater in another organization eye gouged a fighter. He fought real, he fought "dirty". So I guess we have our answer.


also already posted by myself, but here again is Royce vs Delucia, no rules......

http://youtu.be/jd1KDz1X7iE


oh and I find it funny how people were screaming "there are rules in th UFC!" And when I show evidence there were actually not rules in the first UFC's, now it's "well man has a socially acceptable amount of rules" so it's still rules.....:BSmeter::BSmeter:

There were rules I've already showed you the evidence. You also keep acting like the UFC was a real fight. Its a GAME nobody was trying to hurt anyone. If they were then people would have actually been hurt. They were not hurt and kept coming back. If it was really a no holds barred match and people really wanted to hurt each other then where are the broken limbs gouged eyes crushed throats broken spleens. There were none because NOBODY wanted to hurt each other. Because its NOT real its a sport.

 

[lklawson]

ANY sporting event will have rules even if unwritten nobody's going to try to gouge out your eyes or start dropping elbows on your throat. Its not a real fight its a game.

Both of these were elements of old school boxing which "had rules." Like the earlier mentioned Pankration people sometimes died. I think you are misusing the word "game" to imply less danger than there actually may have been.

 

[lklawson]

So, if it has "rules" then it's not a real fight, it's just a "game?"

 

[ballen0351]

Both of these were elements of old school boxing which "had rules." Like the earlier mentioned Pankration people sometimes died. I think you are misusing the word "game" to imply less danger than there actually may have been.

I don't think so its a football "game" and they are dangerous. Game does not mean no danger it means sporting event

 

[ballen0351]

So, if it has "rules" then it's not a real fight, it's just a "game?"

Its not a fight in terms of needing to defend yourself or get hurt or worse. Its a fight in terms of there is a ref and medical staff and rules to protect both fighters plus an understanding that nobody's really trying to injure you. Cause pain yes but cause injury not so much

 

[ballen0351]

Or if you prefer a hockey game I think they are more dangerous then football.

 

[lklawson]

Its not a fight in terms of needing to defend yourself or get hurt or worse. Its a fight in terms of there is a ref and medical staff and rules to protect both fighters plus an understanding that nobody's really trying to injure you. Cause pain yes but cause injury not so much

So if there are rules, then it's a game, right?

 

[ballen0351]

So if there are rules, then it's a game, right?

Yes I'm not sure what you don't understand that you need to keep asking over and over. If it has rules its a sport or game. Like hockey football boxing Ufc they are all sporting events or games

 

[TFP]

Yes I'm not sure what you don't understand that you need to keep asking over and over. If it has rules its a sport or game. Like hockey football boxing Ufc they are all sporting events or games

The early UFC's were no game, no matter how much you want to act like they were.

 

[ballen0351]

game
gām/
noun
1.
a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.


So um what were they then?

The early UFC's were no game, no matter how much you want to act like they were.

 

[lklawson]

Yes

Then you're wrong.

I'm not sure what you don't understand that you need to keep asking over and over.

I wanted to be sure that's what you were claiming.

If it has rules its a sport or game. Like hockey football boxing Ufc they are all sporting events or games

I'll go tell all of the militaries, past and present, that they're just playing a game.
This was the "rules" of the "game" that the U.S. Civil War was played under: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieber_Code
This is the "rules" of the "game" that WWI, WWII, Korean Conflict, etc. were all played under: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907

Having rules doesn't make it a "game." It just makes it having rules.

 

[K-man]

So if there are rules, then it's a game, right?

Mmm! Depends on the intent. There are some rules in conventional warfare. There were rules for duelling. I have a vague idea people died in both. So no, rules don't make it a game, just a very violent sport where the rules favour fighters with certain skills and ban some of the more damaging forms of attack.
:asian:

 

[Tenacious_Red]

This is interesting. Would it be safe to say that it is not a game, but a sport? An art? A discipline? And just like we separate sparring from an actual competition, we can also separate the form and practice from street fighting, and define as an exercise (weak description, though at a loss for proper terminology at the moment) to keep the mind and body sharp for incidents that can be physically endangering?

 

[Tenacious_Red]

game
gām/
noun
1.
a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.


So um what were they then?

I can see by using this definition that MA can be easily determined as a game, HOWEVER, for those of us who practice in a form that is a defensive art, where we don't compete, but train to live, that takes competition out, so where does a game play into it then?

 

[ballen0351]

Then you're wrong.

I wanted to be sure that's what you were claiming.

I'll go tell all of the militaries, past and present, that they're just playing a game.
This was the "rules" of the "game" that the U.S. Civil War was played under: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieber_Code
This is the "rules" of the "game" that WWI, WWII, Korean Conflict, etc. were all played under: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907

Having rules doesn't make it a "game." It just makes it having rules.

When you Have rules in a sporting event makes it a game. War is not a sporting event I guess I thought you were smart enough to know the difference between war and sport. If you were following along with the actual conversation you would see we were talking about the UFC not war.

See there is the "real" world and then there is the "sport" world. When you sign a contract to fight and agree to go by the rules with a prize at the end see that's called a "game" see games are for entertainment and are not "real" life.

That doesn't mean a game isn't dangerous and doesn't take guts and bravery to enter and need great skill to be successful. But its not real and its pretty disrespectful of you to even put war and sport in the same category. Really sad actually.

 

[Tenacious_Red]

Mmm! Depends on the intent. There are some rules in conventional warfare. There were rules for duelling. I have a vague idea people died in both. So no, rules don't make it a game, just a very violent sport where the rules favour fighters with certain skills and ban some of the more damaging forms of attack.
:asian:

Your post reminded me of this skit my nephew showed me about the rules of warfare and what happens when you're not polite to the British. It was in fact very funny, but the undercurrent was mocking the idea that having rules in war (and perhaps we can throw love in there) have been a paradigm of paradoxical ideologies for years that often seem absurd.

 

[Hanzou]

You show me a real no rules fight and you will have your answer. ANY sporting event will have rules even if unwritten nobody's going to try to gouge out your eyes or start dropping elbows on your throat. Its not a real fight its a game.

We don't even need to get it to that point. What about Vale Tudo, UFC, Pride, Prancrase, MMA, etc? How do the rules in those sporting events work against traditional martial arts?

 

[ballen0351]

I can see by using this definition that MA can be easily determined as a game, HOWEVER, for those of us who practice in a form that is a defensive art, where we don't compete, but train to live, that takes competition out, so where does a game play into it then?

Its the competeing part that is the game or sport or whatever term you want to use. Its the competing part that makes its not "real". Its for entertainment