Speak English Signs Allowed

[MJS]

IIRC, there was a thread about this subject around here somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. So, I figured I'd start a new one with this info.

The cheesesteak shop in PA that was the center of attention for having a "English Only" sign seems to have won the case, and it was decided that the sign was not in violation of city ordinance.

PHILADELPHIA - The owner of a famous cheesesteak shop did not discriminate when he posted signs asking customers to speak English, a city panel ruled Wednesday.
In a 2-1 vote, a Commission on Human Relations panel found that two signs at Geno's Steaks telling customers, "This is America: WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH,'" do not violate the city's Fair Practices Ordinance.

Link

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I was beginning to wonder if we'd EVER start seeing common sense in legal decisions in this country.

 

[terryl965]

I was beginning to wonder if we'd EVER start seeing common sense in legal decisions in this country.

Of course this is America after all.

 

[Carol]

Meh. Just another sales gimmick. The sign wasn't designed for the immigrants, it was designed for the anglophones.

If someone's English is so poor that they don't even have the capability of ordering in English at a sub shop....chances are their English is so poor that they would not be able to comprehend what "This is America: WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH" means unless a bilingual person tells them.

I'm glad he won the case. I just don't think he is some sort of cultural saint. He is simply a good businessman.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Here in Miami I deal with alot of people who speak Spanish.
My wife being native Japanese and speaks English as a second language is boggled by the idea so many people come to Miami and refuse to learn English. What is mind blowing is a good amount of people who do not speak English here in Miami refuse to learn it and call those who do not speak Spanish stupido or stupid. Oh well...:shrug:

 

[MJS]

I've always been a believer that you should learn the language of the country that you're in. If my wife and I moved to Italy, you'd bet we'd take some classes and learn the Italian language. Will I be as good speaking as a native Italian? Of course not, but I'd learn the basics and keep working to improve from there.

Now, its different if you're just going to a place for a visit. But, even then, I feel that its only a plus to you, to learn some basics.

I'm glad the shop owner won the case.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I know I am old but when i was young I was taught in school that this was an English speaking country. It was founded by people who spoke English. When the early immigrants came here they learned English or at least their children did. When people wanted to become citizens they took the oath in English.
I am happy the case was settled as it was.

I also agree that if I went somewhere else to live I would want to learn some of that language so I could communicate with others that lived there

 

[theletch1]

The big bruhaha at Gino's ended up being not much more than a well executed sales gimmick (since he won). He stated on several occassions that he'd never refused service to anyone regardless of the language in which they ordered. I'm in agreement with those of you who would attempt to learn the language of what ever country you're living in. As to those who scream about diversity, well, there are logical constraints to that. We live in a country where the VAST majority of people speak english as a first language. The refusal to learn the common language simply inhibits the ability to interact with the community at large.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Meh. Just another sales gimmick. The sign wasn't designed for the immigrants, it was designed for the anglophones.

ahhhh yup... I agree... just another sales Gimmick

Here in Miami I deal with alot of people who speak Spanish.
My wife being native Japanese and speaks English as a second language is boggled by the idea so many people come to Miami and refuse to learn English. What is mind blowing is a good amount of people who do not speak English here in Miami refuse to learn it and call those who do not speak Spanish stupido or stupid. Oh well...:shrug:

My wife is from China and her native language is Mandarin she also speaks Japanese and English and recently tried to learn Cantonese since there are so many Cantonese speakers in our area but stopped since they all pretty much know English and\or Mandarin anyway.

But she feels much the same way she can't understand why if you live in a country you do not know the language. My mother-in-law is in her 70s and when she comes to visit she tried to learn English.

 

[tellner]

OK, it's a snotty marketing ploy. But it beats the bright green hell out of what I saw going to school in Central Vancouver Island in the late 70s. A touristy couple walked into the grocery store and tried speak French to the proprietor. They were told, and I quote, "Speak White."

It also brings to mind an old joke:

What do you call a person who speaks three languages?
A: Trilingual

What do you call a person who speaks two languages?
A: Bilingual

What do you call a person who speaks one language?
A: American

 

[Xue Sheng]

OK, it's a snotty marketing ploy. But it beats the bright green hell out of what I saw going to school in Central Vancouver Island in the late 70s. A touristy couple walked into the grocery store and tried speak French to the proprietor. They were told, and I quote, "Speak White."

It also brings to mind an old joke:

They use to do a similar thing in Hong Kong prior to the PRC taking it back, but they were a bit nicer. A friend of mine got in a cab there and told the driver where he wanted to go in Mandarin to which the driver responded in Mandarin and told him he would not take him anywhere unless he asked in Cantonese, which my friend did not speak. However the driver then proceeded to teach him how to say the same thing in Cantonese and after that he took him to where he wanted to go.

And your joke reminded me of the Steven Wright bit

I was in a bookstore, and I started talking to a French-looking girl. She was a bilingual illiterate. She couldn't read in two languages."

 

[Bob Hubbard]

OK, it's a snotty marketing ploy. But it beats the bright green hell out of what I saw going to school in Central Vancouver Island in the late 70s. A touristy couple walked into the grocery store and tried speak French to the proprietor. They were told, and I quote, "Speak White."

It also brings to mind an old joke:

I like it. LOL!

 

[navyvetcv60]

Sales gimmick or not, this is still a serious issue.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sales gimmick or not, this is still a serious issue.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919

And yet doesn't the US allow dual citizenship? And I know it allows resident alien status.

And I was once talking to a woman from Germany and she thought it was rather funny that most Americans when you ask them what they are or where they are from give you their heritage. I am German, Irish, I am Scottish, My heritage is French, etc. It was her experience that very few said just "American". Where if you ask someone from Germany where they are from they will simply say German.

But with that said I do feel that if you are going to live in America and function in America you should learn English but if you don't so be it but you should not expect anyone to cater to you or your language and you certainly should not get upset if you are not understood.

EDIT

I forgot to add this

Here is another quote to consider as well though

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

 

[KenpoTex]

If I'm ever in Philly, I know where I'm going to eat.

 

[Carol]

I agree it is a very serious issue. Which is why I am not impressed. I don't like to see serious issues trivialized with fluffy feel-good measures that do nothing to address the issue.

If everyone that thumped their chest and gave the restaurant owner a lusty "YEAH MAN" in response to his sign actually had the fortitude to put their actions behind their values then maybe we might see a change.

But...unfortunately...that is too hard for a lot of people to do. They don't want to volunteer the time. They don't want to deal with the cultural differences. They don't want the frustration of teaching English to someone illiterate in their own language. Its much easier to resent non-Anglophones.

Which is a real shame. Because...the enthusiasm over an act of posturing is no comparison to the absolute euphoria over actually putting your time where your mouth is and seeing a person improve their life over what you taught them. To have a student come up to you and say they got a promotion, or a better job, or were able to help their kids with their homework for the first time. Or to have someone insist that you must teach them more, only to turn them away...telling them that they don't need an ESL course snymore...they need an English course...and refer them to the local community college.

Who has had more effect on an immigrant's ability to learn English? A nameless ESL volunteer that no one has heard of? Or a sign in a sub shop?

 

[theletch1]

Other side of that coin, though, Carol is that many members of various ethnic groups refuse to learn english. They feel that they are betraying their heritage by doing so. We're sliding more and more away from the "melting pot" that we once were and more and more into an amalgam of different cultures that happen to cohabit the same country. In many places across this country you'll find "chinatowns" or "little Havanas" where one can spend 95% of their time and never have the need to speak english on a daily basis. When you do need to use the language you can always have someone from the neighborhood translate for you.

Example: The company that I drive for employs quite a few folks from Central America in the processing plant. Of all the hispanic folks that work there maybe 4 have a good grasp of the english language. These four have been assigned one each to different departments to act as translators for the rest. I speak spanish fairly well and get the opportunity to talk to the ones in our recieving department daily. When asked how it is that I speak spanish so well I explain that I trained at the Presidio of Monterey while in the USMC. After the usual complement regarding my language skills I'll ask if they'd help me practice my spanish if I'll help them with their english. I've only had one take me up on the offer. The rest have pointed to the "translator" for that department and said they didn't need to learn english cause "Al" was there for that.

 

[Sukerkin]

There are a whole bundle of serious issues wrapped up in the background that made a sign in a shop become such a high profile event.

The most key of all in a country founded and grown by immigration is that the infuxing people must be assimilated into the host culture; allowing Balkanisation will eventually fracture the society, to the detriment of everyone.

Language is a 'binding agent' in the process of everyday existence. Having a common tongue (no jokes please ) is much more fundamental to a functioning society than many people give it credit for.

 

[MJS]

Sales gimmick or not, this is still a serious issue.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...

There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
--Theodore Roosevelt, 1919

Wow...if this post doesn't scream prejudice, I don't know what does. Nothing wrong with speaking 2 languages or 10, but, as I said in my post and speaking only from my point of view, I feel that one should learn and speak the language of the country they're in. However, it does not mean that they can't speak their native language to family or others that are fluent in it. But, if they're speaking German and I don't know German, well, that is a good example. Learn enough to communicate with a non speaking German.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

When confronted with someone who refuses to learn english, I will resort to speaking Klingon. It often annoys them significantly since they can't understand anything I'm saying. The obvious lesson however is usually lost on them. Other countries have an "Official" language. The US needs to do that, and make it English. They also need to stop providing translators at taxpayer expense and make those who won't learn, foot the bill for their non-integration into US Society.

Let the money being spent now on translators go instead into language learning programs to help non-english speakers learn to a functional level. It can be subsidized with volenteers who will help in return for learning other languages.