Social Media Naysayers

[Kung Fu Wang]

Because kata doesn't really reflect fighting too closely anyway.

This is why one has to create his own forms from applications (if he really needs it).

Here is an example, application -> form.

 

[drop bear]

This is why one has to create his own forms from applications (if he really needs it).

Here is an example, application -> form.

I don't think it has to reflect fighting. Fighting reflects fighting well enough.

 

[JowGaWolf]

They probably were not that fit.

People who do aerobics are fit. My brother is fit he does cross state races, cycling races, muay thai, wrestling, BJJ and marathons. He's built like a Spartan. He does a few minutes of some of my kung fu drills and he feels it. A shuffle drill that I do is enough to burn those muscles that he doesn't use.

You are welcome to try my kung fu conditioning workout.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Professional MMA fighter Volkanovski: no forms, S&C, drills, bagwork, padwork, sparring, etc.

What am I looking for before I watch these videos?

 

[marvin8]

What am I looking for before I watch these videos?

No forms, S&C, drills, bagwork, padwork, sparring, etc., is a common method to put you in shape to fight at a high level.

 

[Hot Lunch]

This is false. Lift all the weights you want, and Kung Fu will make you feel like all of that weightlifting waste of time

Well, there is one kung fu expert who would be to differ. This was his work out routine:

This is also not true.

Both of these things will make you fit but may not necessarily put you in shape to do martial arts.

So professional fighters do road work for nothing? And while there are some professional fighters who don't look very athletic, they're the exception and not the rule.

In this aspect, you can't separate professional fighting from "fighting on da skreetz" because ALL fighting taps into whatever level of athleticism that your body has. This is why I didn't 100% totally dismiss that incel guy that was trolling here a few days ago.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well, there is one kung fu expert who would be to differ. This was his work out routine:

As a martial artist, I can tell you that isn't a complete list. My guess is that workout is out of context. I don't see any punching or kicking drills. No skill training. Nothing for conditioning kicks or arms or training punches. I don't see any leg lifts that would help with kicking. I don't see any cardio or footwork trills

None of these exercises help with the strength that he has to hold his kick up as shown in this video.

I lift weights and I train kung fu so I have personal experience on what helps from lifting weights and what doesn't. That workout that you are looking out would be the same as if I gave you only the weight training part of my workout and not the kung fu part.

 

[Hot Lunch]

As a martial artist, I can tell you that isn't a complete list. My guess is that workout is out of context. I don't see any punching or kicking drills. No skill training. Nothing for conditioning kicks or arms or training punches. I don't see any leg lifts that would help with kicking. I don't see any cardio or footwork trills

None of these exercises help with the strength that he has to hold his kick up as shown in this video.

I lift weights and I train kung fu so I have personal experience on what helps from lifting weights and what doesn't. That workout that you are looking out would be the same as if I gave you only the weight training part of my workout and not the kung fu part.

His whole training regimen doesn't have to be listed to refute your original point - which was that weight and steady state cardio training are of no value to martial arts.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So professional fighters do road work for nothing?

Roadwork is for cardio but the cardio that is used to run is not the same cardio that is used for jumping or doing burpees. Running, jumping, and burpees are 2 different movements that put different demands on the body.

Road work will not prepare you for shuffle punch drills.

 

[JowGaWolf]

which was that weight and steady state cardio training are of no value to martial arts.

Show me where I say that weight and steady state cardio training are of no value to martial arts.

 

[JowGaWolf]

His whole training regimen doesn't have to be listed to refute your original point

Yes, his whole training has to be shown because it's the part that isn't showing that is directly related to kicking, punching, and other martial art movement. You can take his workout and let that be the only thing you everyday for 10 years and you would still suck at punching, kicking, and fighting. So for you to say that the whole training doesn't need to be shown is realistic.

Ask yourself this
Can a person learn how to kick, punch, and grapple without lifting weights?

Can a person learn how to kick, punch, and grapple only by lifting weights?

Can a person build the strength to pass a basketball by only using strength training for throwing a football?

Can a person only do that weight lifting workout that you showed and learn martial arts movement?

 

[Hot Lunch]

Yes, his whole training has to be shown because it's the part that isn't showing that is directly related to kicking, punching, and other martial art movement. You can take his workout and let that be the only thing you everyday for 10 years and you would still suck at punching, kicking, and fighting. So for you to say that the whole training doesn't need to be shown is realistic.

Ask yourself this
Can a person learn how to kick, punch, and grapple without lifting weights?

Can a person learn how to kick, punch, and grapple only by lifting weights?

Can a person build the strength to pass a basketball by only using strength training for throwing a football?

Can a person only do that weight lifting workout that you showed and learn martial arts movement?

His whole training would have to be listed IF the claim was that he substituted martial arts training with weight training (your questions imply that that was the claim being made).

That was not the claim. The claim is that weight and cardio training serve as performance enhancers with regards to martial arts training. You said "Lift all the weights you want, and Kung Fu will make you feel like all of that weightlifting waste of time." Bruce Lee didn't feel it was a waste of time, nor do professional fighters.

In every area of athletics - combat sports and non-combat sports - athletes hit the gym for a reason. That reason is to enhance their performance. Even militaries have physical fitness tests for a reason. We wouldn't want to place the security of our nation into the hands of a bunch of physically weak Soldiers who'd blow chunks after running ten steps, would we?

 

[JowGaWolf]

His whole training would have to be listed IF the claim was that he substituted martial arts training with weight training (your questions imply that that was the claim being made).

But that's not my claim either. My claim has nothing to do with bruce lee. But if someone tells me that they train martial arts and only shows weight lifting as proof of their training, then I know they are not giving the whole true of what their workout consisted of.

My only claim is that we are only strong in the movements that we train. If you do not train that movement then you will not be strong in that movement. I can train Running movement, but it will not make me a good swimmer because Running movement is not the same as swimming movement.

There are many things about Martial Art movement that are more than just pushing weight and this is true for a lot of sports and physical activities. There is more to getting strong than just being strong. People say get strong. I always ask strong to do what. Based on what strength you want to have weights can be added to help gain that strength, but that strength has to be built according to the movement to be done.

I don't know if anyone remembers this term, but at one time there was a big promotion of "Functional Training." This took over a lot of the isolation training that used to be championed which is represented in Bruce Lee's workout that you shared. But since he's a martial artist I know that wasn't the only type of strengthening and conditioning exercises that he was doing. So posting only with weight training portion and ignoring the rest is not an accurate picture of his training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The claim is that weight and cardio training serve as performance enhancers with regards to martial arts training.

This is true, but not just any type of cardio training or weight training will do.

Different activity same concept.

The squat exercise that he does is the same one that I do for horsestance but I don't lean forward. This engages the muscles that are involved with being in that position and moving in that position.

Another video about skater legs

How much weight lifting did you see vs training the motion?

You cannot be strong in a motion unless you train that motion. Just hoping in the gym and lifting weights without a purpose of function isn't going to automatically help just because you are lifting weights. If that weightlifting doesn't train the motion then it will not help the motion.

If your weith lifting doesn't include any of these things then you are training the wrong muscles for speed skating.

What holds true about training the motion, holds true to a lot of other physical activities.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In every area of athletics - combat sports and non-combat sports - athletes hit the gym for a reason. That reason is to enhance their performance.

Athletes do target training which trains the strength for the motion being used. They don't just hop in gym and lift weights without the purpose of function.

Most people lift weights for general fitness and general fitness is different than fitness that is needed to do a specific movement.

Below are the same things that I've been touching on when I talk about training movement.
Conor McGregor Workout Routine and Diet Plan:

To get us started, here are five tips McGregor shares with Men’s Health:

Variety is Key– “People are so caught in a routine, doing the same things over and over. I want to be an expert in different fighting styles, new training methods, new ways of thinking.”

Knowing When To Stop – Over training is scary, and being able to allow for recovery is extremely important. Here’s what McGregor says: “I didn’t lose [to Diaz] on skill; I lost on stamina,” says McGregor. “My greatest strength is my work ethic. And my greatest weakness is my work ethic. Leading up to Diaz, I was fucked from overtraining.”

Mobility is Key – McGregor says: “We’re the only animal that wakes up and doesn’t stretch.”

Bodyweight = Better – McGregor states: “Machines don’t use machines. And I am a machine.”

Don’t Complicate Foods – We’ve heard a lot about McGregor’s diet already, so you have this part covered; but here’s one last quote from the man: “I just try to eat clean. I’ll eat good quality meats, good-quality greens, good-quality carbohydrates like sweet potatoes and butternut squash, and that’s it.”

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is why one has to create his own forms from applications (if he really needs it).

Here is an example, application -> form.

And like it has been said before. Form should come from application.

When the Form does not come from application then it means the form has no application.

 

[isshinryuronin]

To begin with, strength and endurance are always good, and a certain level of fitness is needed in any MA endeavor.

As far as this discussion goes regarding weight and cardio training being useful in MA, the extent this is true depends on the purpose of the MA one is training. IMO, the following is a fair general summation:

Competition - Cardio is important as it involves extended output of energy thru multiple rounds or matches. Then there is muscular endurance allowing many reps at high speed. Strength comes into play if there is grappling.

Self-Defense - These kinds of situations are usually short lived so extended endurance is not the main concern. Energy is expended in short bursts. Strength is only needed to allow one's biomechanics to deliver a technique effective in injuring the opponent by strikes or for a bit of grappling control.

Self-Development - There are many varieties of this, so the level of strength and cardio needed may be low to high depending on the individual's personal goals.

Weight training can/should be tailored to facilitate MA technique from a martial artist's point of view. (EDIT- as I see JowGaWolf just mentioned) Core training (abs and lower back) is at the top of my list for both striking and grappling arts. Depending on the fighting system other strength areas may be stressed.

I think the main conditioning can come from just doing the MA in a vigorous and dedicated manner. Cardio and weights play a supporting (but helpful) role.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In terms of weight training.

The Activity (motion) dictates the Type of Weight Training.
The Weight Training doesn't dictate the type of activity.

You may or may not be getting beneficial weight training if you do not know the activity. First know the activity and what it requires and then develop the weight training that best suits it.

General weight training and general cardio often misses what is required for the strength and motion of a specific activity. A person will not be strong in a motion that he or she does not train. This is why people who are fit will often gas out and struggle with kung fu or any activity that has an unfamiliar motion. I do kung fu, but kung fu isn't yoga. Yoga is hard to me. What is done in Yoga is not the same motion in Kung Fu and because of that, my muscles for yoga are weak. The only way I can be strong in Yoga is to train the motions of yoga.

The difficulty of lifting weights is that the muscles involved in the activity may not be strengthening at the same time and in some cases may not be activated at all. This machine will not help horstace because the same sabilizing muscles are not beig activated. The positioning of the back is not the same as it is in horse stance. Even the displacement of weight is not the same as it is in horse stance. With this one fiss the pressure in the back as it presses the body into the back rest. So a person can do this exercise all day and still be weak in horse stance. Will this person get strong legs? yes. Is it the strengh that is needed for horsestance? nope.

Those this motion translate into shifting from horse stance to cat stance or for dropping in and jumping out of horse stance? Does it help with shuffle punches? Nope. Shuffle punches are more about muscle endurance than strength so me working on my legs like this for 6 months think my legs will be ready for the demands of kung fu would be a waste of time. I'll get stronger legs, but it won't help for how kung fu moves.

 

[windwalker099]

So professional fighters do road work for nothing? And while there are some professional fighters who don't look very athletic, they're the exception and not the rule.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Competition - Cardio is important as it involves extended output of energy thru multiple rounds or matches. Then there is muscular endurance allowing many reps at high speed. Strength comes into play if there is grappling.

What I always run into with Cardio is that once I get the lung compacity, everything turns into a lesson about breathing to match the motion being performed. If I use sprinter breating to do Kung Fu then I'm going to passout.
People talk about cardio but for some reason they leave out the breathing control that comes with it.