SKK Combos

[Gufbal1982]

With #13 there are variations of the take down.

The flip over the shoulder.
The side take down where you just roll em off the side and step out as you do it and.
There is one with a sweep as well.

In all my years of studying shaolin kempo I have never seen it with a sweep. It doesn't teach what the technique is about. You end up going thru many ranges that way. You start with a deflection of the arm to trapping. From there you use the strikes you throw to set up the entanglement of the upper body and the displacement of the hips to do the throw. The second version you mention is what happens if you screw up the takedown. You still have those concepts except you screwed up one element and are compensating for it. The sweep doesn't offer entanglement or hip displacement. Basically, it is saying "no judo and more kenpo."

 

[fnorfurfoot]

Ok..lets see.

Step with left to 10/11 o'clock area as the punch is blocked.

Left hand checks arm down as a right verticle punch is delivered to the head. I've also seen this done w/o the check.

Loop the belt over the head and around the neck.

Right foot steps behind opponents legs as you take them down.

Belt is then pulled off the neck and can be used to strike opponent.

Mine is the same as yours as long as your "take them down" means you throw them over your shoulder.

 

[14 Kempo]

Ok..lets see.

Step with left to 10/11 o'clock area as the punch is blocked.

Left hand checks arm down as a right verticle punch is delivered to the head. I've also seen this done w/o the check.

Loop the belt over the head and around the neck.

Right foot steps behind opponents legs as you take them down.

Belt is then pulled off the neck and can be used to strike opponent.

Done the same here with a few possible, slight variations.

The 'left hand checks the arm down' could be a hammer strike to the radial nerve of the opponents right arm.

Thrust/vertical punch to the opponents temple/head.

The 'loop the belt over the head and around the neck' could be done three different ways.

One, take the right over the head and around the neck. With this one, the loop is tightened as you step behind with the right leg.

Two, flip the belt over the head. This one is used primarily if the person is taller and you can't reach over the head.

Three, left arm loop over the head and around the neck. With this one the loop actually loosens as you step behind with the right, but can still work.

In all cases, bring them over the shoulder and to the ground.

 

[MJS]

I was originally taught the throw as being over the shoulder, but variations can include the hip, depending on how far you step behind.

Mike

 

[Iron Leopard]

regarding #13 again it is taught over the shoulder as you guys mentioned above and drill in the concepts associated with it but you miss some of the reality of it if you don't practice it in other drills such as your attacker moves on you as you loop the belt around his neck well then what do you do? If you have practiced it multiple ways then you are prepared for an;y eventuality. hip and sweep.

this goes for all the DMs or combinations ..you learn them right handed and then you learn them left and then you learn them against hook punches and kicks and multiple punches and from the ground and in a dragon circle or a gauntlet or against two attackers etc. the drill and minor variations go on forever.

 

[14 Kempo]

regarding #13 again it is taught over the shoulder as you guys mentioned above and drill in the concepts associated with it but you miss some of the reality of it if you don't practice it in other drills such as your attacker moves on you as you loop the belt around his neck well then what do you do? If you have practiced it multiple ways then you are prepared for an;y eventuality. hip and sweep.

this goes for all the DMs or combinations ..you learn them right handed and then you learn them left and then you learn them against hook punches and kicks and multiple punches and from the ground and in a dragon circle or a gauntlet or against two attackers etc. the drill and minor variations go on forever.

I personally work all my techniques in various ways, trying to encompass anything that may happen during a technique. I'm not always able to do all things when working with a partner, but I use visualization techniques as well. Anyone who is or was athletic in anyway understands how it is visualization techniques can help, but is not in anyway a fixall ... these need to be worked on people. Also, all techniques can be countered. It is a very good practice to work with someone else of skill and have them try to counter the various techniques to see what may occur ... my two cents (but I'm not out of pennies yet)

 

[Hand Sword]

We always had the strike in 13 as a back two- knuckle punch, after the block. It made the wrap easier too.

 

[Gufbal1982]

regarding #13 again it is taught over the shoulder as you guys mentioned above and drill in the concepts associated with it but you miss some of the reality of it if you don't practice it in other drills such as your attacker moves on you as you loop the belt around his neck well then what do you do? If you have practiced it multiple ways then you are prepared for an;y eventuality. hip and sweep.

this goes for all the DMs or combinations ..you learn them right handed and then you learn them left and then you learn them against hook punches and kicks and multiple punches and from the ground and in a dragon circle or a gauntlet or against two attackers etc. the drill and minor variations go on forever.

You have missed the point of the technique and what it's trying to do. If what you say is true, then why are there 108 dm's? You can change the techniques all you want. If you apply the technique right, you use your opponent's energy to follow where they go. Basic concept in wrestling. You don't wrestle so that's why you don't get it.

 

[Hand Sword]

Geez! Is Iron Leopard's head still attached? Could we all lighten up a little? Different strokes for different folks, right?

 

[Gufbal1982]

Geez! Is Iron Leopard's head still attached? Could we all lighten up a little? Different strokes for different folks, right?

Sorry. I'm just very passionate about finding the concepts behind the combinations.

 

[Iron Leopard]

lol it's ok...remember everything I post here is just my opinion! no offence taken by me..although..gufbal seems just a little argumentative on some of my points? lol

 

[Gufbal1982]

lol it's ok...remember everything I post here is just my opinion! no offence taken by me..although..gufbal seems just a little argumentative on some of my points? lol

I like to call it more of a debate.

 

[kosho]

OK<OK<OK Play nice LOL
Comb 14. # 2 Block as you step back and then a sissor kick to the attackers solar plexus.
Thats how I learned it back in the early 80's
kosho

 

[SK101]

Comb 14. # 2 Block as you step back and then a sissor kick to the attackers solar plexus.
Thats how I learned it back in the early 80's
kosho

There was a cool variation taught at one of the SK studios where you do left stepping stool instead of scissor kick. The opponent punches in then as the defender grabs the attacker pulls back. The defender does the stepping stool kick to follow the attacker.

 

[Iron Leopard]

Comb 14. # 2 Block as you step back and then a sissor kick to the attackers solar plexus.
Thats how I learned it back in the early 80's
kosho

.

That's how I have it ..this is one I've never worked a variation on except I've seen one once with a back two knucke to the solor of the forward attacker and a reverse hammer to the groin of the rearward attacker...no jump kick. I don't remember how that variation started though.

 

[SK101]

QUOTE=Hand Sword;693260]We always had the strike in 13 as a back two- knuckle punch, after the block. It made the wrap easier too.[/QUOTE]

This is often shown as the belt buckle side of the belt.

]You have missed the point of the technique and what it's trying to do. If what you say is true, then why are there 108 dm's? You can change the techniques all you want. If you apply the technique right, you use your opponent's energy to follow where they go. Basic concept in wrestling. You don't wrestle so that's why you don't get it. [Qoute from Gulfbal 182

I have at least several variations on DMs that completly have different principles.

Two, flip the belt over the head. This one is used primarily if the person is taller and you can't reach over the head.

I like your thought process on that part. I had once been told to never flip the belt over the neck, but that seee=ms like a logical reason to do so.

 

[SK101]

I like to post the little details that I am sure everyone already has, but just incase or if somenone has more basics, Great!

Back to DM13 - If you step back with right leg while the person is going over your shoulder and yank the belt back toward 4:30 and 7:30 there neck goes one way and their body goes another.

The hammer strike to the nerve box should bring them lower.

The belt can be looped to create a whipping strike to the wrist on the block potentially injuring the wrist.

One way for students to be safer is to place their left hand on the right side of the neck so it is inside belt and reduces the choke.

Onto DM 14 - People with weak ankles or knees should avoid the scissor kick.

It is easier to learn if you learn the flamingo first - Double knees to the chest.
Then work on the front kick making sure it's hitting the target well.
Then focus on the back kick and making it's hittint the target well.
Then do both.

Cute story - Master Taylor would jog around Boston. When he was a green belt one of his sister's boyfriends decided to test him. He waited in the bushes and jumped at as Master Taylor came by. Master Taylor jumped up in the air and did DM 14. He told us it made no sense to do 14, but that is what he had been practicing in the dojo since he was a green belt. He kicked the guy who fell down. Master Taylor landed on his chest and just kept jogging. He didn't realize till he got home and saw the boyfriend folded over on the couch who had attacked.

Wish you all the best,
SK101

 

[RevIV]

I have it as

step out with left foot as the attacker comes in. with belt in both hands deliver a block with the belt. left hand high right low.

once to block is made take your left hand and press down on the attackers arm. as your right hand comes up and delivers a right back two knuckle punch to the attackers face ( temple area).
then flip the belt over the attackers head and shift your body around then and put your hip into there back and pull. this flpis them over.
once on the ground place your right or left foot on to there body
as you place the belt into the left hand ( so both ends of the belt are in the left hand. holding around the neck)
pull with the right shutting of the blood flow the the brain.
Kosho
Thats how i learned it back in the early 80s

Here is something i figured out on my extremely long trip back from Japan. to clarify on 13 when i do the throw it is over the left shoulder. Combination #13 is combination #3 with a belt. -- #3 left inward palm high, right punch low. (same position as when holding the belt) Push hand down in both tech. punch to head w/ right. #3 reaching behind to grab left shoulder. #13 wraps around towards left shoulder from front. then throw - i step back after the throw and tear the belt off the neck like i am starting the lawn mower. well that was one of my epiphanies. think about it, if you are a teacher and do 13 the way i do use it on your advanced students by asking them to find the 2 combinations that are almost idenitical from the foot work to hand positioning.
In Peace
Jesse

 

[MeatWad2]

I like to post the little details that I am sure everyone already has, but just incase or if somenone has more basics, Great!

Back to DM13 - If you step back with right leg while the person is going over your shoulder and yank the belt back toward 4:30 and 7:30 there neck goes one way and their body goes another.

The hammer strike to the nerve box should bring them lower.

The belt can be looped to create a whipping strike to the wrist on the block potentially injuring the wrist.

One way for students to be safer is to place their left hand on the right side of the neck so it is inside belt and reduces the choke.

Onto DM 14 - People with weak ankles or knees should avoid the scissor kick.

It is easier to learn if you learn the flamingo first - Double knees to the chest.
Then work on the front kick making sure it's hitting the target well.
Then focus on the back kick and making it's hittint the target well.
Then do both.

Cute story - Master Taylor would jog around Boston. When he was a green belt one of his sister's boyfriends decided to test him. He waited in the bushes and jumped at as Master Taylor came by. Master Taylor jumped up in the air and did DM 14. He told us it made no sense to do 14, but that is what he had been practicing in the dojo since he was a green belt. He kicked the guy who fell down. Master Taylor landed on his chest and just kept jogging. He didn't realize till he got home and saw the boyfriend folded over on the couch who had attacked.

Wish you all the best,
SK101

A better story where was he jogging to?
I"d like to think backto ireland to be with the elf"s and little people.

 

[Hand Sword]

MeatWad2, Do you ever intend to contribute anything, to any of the posts, that is positive? Or ask a serious question? If not, please do contribute anything. Read, think, train,and maybe learn something useful on your journey.