Parting Wings

[kenposikh]

However you must develop a feelng of trust with your teacher and training partners, much like what would ne necessary in learning "social dancing," which I find "ironic."

Hey Doc,

Next time I see you ask me for some dance lessons and I'll oblige also maybe you could help me with some of my dance moves especially when dropping my partner and being able to support their weight

 

[kenposikh]

I am admittedly not a very bright person. I can't simply watch and learn. I ask questions, I make speculations, I wonder, I opine, I posit. I challenge my teachers just as much as they challenge me.

I know I am a difficult student. I apologize for that sir. I meant neither you nor anyone else any disrespect. I hope to continue to grow more in my knowledge from you, and everyone else. I'm sure you will agree, I have quite a lot to learn.

:asian:

Hi I think you do not give yourself enough credit, questioning techniques and asking why they don't work in my opinion has at least two factors the obvious of which is

1. you are doing something wrong

2. The attack is wrong in some way

Let me explain

On many occassions I have asked students what is their least favourite technique got the to do it with several different attackers and seen several different results. From this I have made corrections to the defenders stances and basic blocks/strikes and suddently they find that they now can do the technique it works fro them but something is still missing, now we go to the attacker, we, in my humble opinion, tend to forget that the initial attack maybe but not always a precursor to something else also distance is of paramount importance.

So as we are talking about parting wings let's examine the attack and let's stick with the original fact that it is mainly taught as a defence against a two handed push, my question is and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm rambling, what follows the push also what sort of push is it.

e.g.

1. is it a statc SNAPPING PUSH to move you away from the aggressor with two hands and fingers pointing upwards and shoulders square.

2. is is a static SNAPPING PUSH with the shoulders not square caused by the retraction of one arm in preparation for a punch

3. is it a step through SNAPPING PUSH to get you off balance in preparation for a bear hug and lift............

4. is is a step through SNAPPING push followed by a reverse punch or step through punch.

How much aggression is applied to the push in the above cases and how far are they trying to push you back.

Let's continue

5. is is a THUSTING PUSH with arms left out longer than in the above scenarios

...
...
...


on a final note it is a push and not an attempted push so in effect contact has been made and as a defender your balance has been compromised..


Thoughts and discussions please.

btw I have not changed the actual attack just given several variations for the attacks

 

[pete]

OK, back from the lab.

First, did the experiment. results were immaterial. no we could not separate the arms from that position... however, you really don't have to move the arms away in the technique...

Parting Wings, against an actual 2-hand push to the chest, you must step back to absorb rather than oppose the force. then by turning into a N-bow, 3 things occur: (1) bracing angle is set, (2) you change the angle of his arms relative to your chest, (3) your arms in contact with your opponents arms from the inside now control the centerline... he is on the outside not because you moved him there, but you've repsoitioned yourself into superior position.

This is a specific push, where you pushed back one step and the opponent follows through moving forward with you. the continued pressure on the outside of your arms will feed the next moves, whether or not you choose to activate an eye rake or claw with the left hand as the right heel palm meets his on coming ribs. the forward bow at this point puts the power into the strike and resets the bracing angle towards the now lower joint center of gravity.

If the push moved you farther away, as i said earlier, we have Twist of Fate which leads with a kick. If the push continues forward, and the attacker may even grab your shirt, Snaking Talon works, initially with the same bracing angle, but a different manipulation to pry his arms off.

If the push is sudden and you lose contact with him, we may begin the same way as Parting Wings, but expecting a followup punch, we move into Circling Windmills.

Now for the attempted high bear hug. Stepping back: definite no-no. Must step forward, but as DKL said, what is there to prevent a head butt? rather than keeping the hands framed in the 'box', wouldn't the 'triangle' formed in Thrusting Wedge keep the head in check?

I am sure Doc, that your technique is effective against the attack you specified, but there must be more variations to the followup moves after the 'parting wings' to keep all dimensions in check... could you please explain?

pete

 

[Dan G]

OK, that's one vote for me talking out of my backside.

Dark Lord, sir, you may not consider me to be your student, yet I am learning quite a bit from you...and Doc, and Mike, and Flying Crane, and Dan and everyone else wathcing me stumble around MT making a fool of myself.

Kenpo has made me tough enough to embarass myself on the internet without fear. Maybe someday I'll be tough enough to face a real attacker

I am admittedly not a very bright person. I can't simply watch and learn. I ask questions, I make speculations, I wonder, I opine, I posit. I challenge my teachers just as much as they challenge me.

I know I am a difficult student. I apologize for that sir. I meant neither you nor anyone else any disrespect. I hope to continue to grow more in my knowledge from you, and everyone else. I'm sure you will agree, I have quite a lot to learn.

:asian:

You are not talking out of your backside, and you have nothing to be embarassed about!

Your questions are interesting and well thought out and your posts are worth reading. I haven't read anything that would make me think you are anything other than exceptionally bright.

I am not an instructor, but for what it is worth I reckon that if you are a "difficult student" it is because you are asking the questions that matter.

Keep on asking the questions and best of luck with your training.

Dan G

 

[Flying Crane]

You are not talking out of your backside, and you have nothing to be embarassed about!

Your questions are interesting and well thought out and your posts are worth reading. I haven't read anything that would make me think you are anything other than exceptionally bright.

I am not an instructor, but for what it is worth I reckon that if you are a "difficult student" it is because you are asking the questions that matter.

Keep on asking the questions and best of luck with your training.

Dan G

well said. I agree.

 

[Carol]

Thanks very much, all of you. I'm deeply humbled. :asian: