SKK Combos

marlon said:
The thing about this technique is the timing of the stop kick to the knee must be immediately followed with the palm strikes to the arm (at wrist and elbow)for the trap to work otherwise it is unrrealistic to think you can grab an arm out of the air.
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How about using the arm break when someone grabs one hand by the throat. Any thoughts on using 16 as a grab technique begining with a loosing strike to the shin.

I don't know what the exact circumstances were, but there was an SK master who took advantage of someone poking their finger into his chest at a movie theatre. He just used the break though, no shin kick or follow up. I suppose once the arm is broken you really don't need the rest.

I never cared for twin palms. I like double Tiger mouths. Any thoughts Pro or Con?

Does anyone find the knee/shin check harder to do for shorter students versus the front ball kick?
 
DM #17 I would never half moon forward without an inner leg check. Any one have a version with a leg check?

In my opinion the face strike is more important than the groin strike since it is needed to stop the left punch.

When you hold a person in one spot and then hit them in the same spot one term used is anchoring (like wrap the head then thrust punch to nose) at the same time. When you hit someone in the nose then the groin such as in Pinan 2 one term is bouncing. When you hit the groin and face at the same time the body cannot do it's normal adjustment. Anyone have a name for this?

Maybe this was gone over on 10, but there should be 4 parts practiced on the takedown for 17. Shuto to neck, Pulling opponents right arm, Dropping the weight and twisting the hips. OR Pull head to shoulder, Pulling opponents right arm, Dropping the weight and twisting the hips.

Spin 270 Degrees as this is when the opponent will stop spinning.

Thrust, Inverted thrust, then spearhand. Any other variations on the end?
 
DM # 18 - I like both the step forward on the takedown and the pull opponent in and turn toward 6:00 with takedown.

There is a version of the pull opponent in which you start against a wall. Your cat stance is very short to say the least and you utilize the actual block for blocking unlike the regular version of the DM. As you pull your opponent in he goes head first into the wall. I would suspect the downward elbow would be more effective with the spine compressed. Any thoughts.

Pull opponents head toward your reverse hammer. Pros or cons to this interpretation?

Just like on DM 3 you don't need to see your opponent to know where the temple is.
 
DM#18 - There are at least 3 versions of the attack. T-Shirt version, Wall Version, Resistance/Whiplash. Does anyone have other variations?
 
SK101 said:
How about using the arm break when someone grabs one hand by the throat. Any thoughts on using 16 as a grab technique begining with a loosing strike to the shin.

I don't know what the exact circumstances were, but there was an SK master who took advantage of someone poking their finger into his chest at a movie theatre. He just used the break though, no shin kick or follow up. I suppose once the arm is broken you really don't need the rest.

I never cared for twin palms. I like double Tiger mouths. Any thoughts Pro or Con?

Does anyone find the knee/shin check harder to do for shorter students versus the front ball kick?
Click to expand...

I'll have to experiment with a shin or knee kick on #16. I have it against a punch and without a stop kick into the upper torso, it seems there would be very little chance to trap the arm (I use tiger mouths, by the way). However, using it as a break or hyper-extension of the elbow/arm is very feasible.

I take it you're using the shin/knee kick to cause a loss of balance by the opponent and to allow him/her to continue moving forward. I can see how I could make that work ... just need to experiment a bit.
 
Our 16 is completely different.

We do the cross-step right to 1030 and double-parry, but then the arms reverse direction, the left checks the attacker's right downwards as the right hand comes over the top for a hammer fist to the bridge of the nose as the left steps to 12. That's a really really poor write-up of what is a very flowing smooth technique...
 
14 Kempo said:
I take it you're using the shin/knee kick to cause a loss of balance by the opponent and to allow him/her to continue moving forward. I can see how I could make that work ... just need to experiment a bit.
Click to expand...

I use the shin strike as a stop motion for the lower body, as for the off balancing I never thought about it, but it could be. The upper body is going to continue forward slightly or stop same as the front ball kick to the solar plexus version. Arm is extended while the person is dealing with the shin strike allowing the break to be used.

It sounds like you have a version where you trap the arm. I haven't tried that before, but I will try to play with it just to see how it feels. Do you trap by pulling into the chest or just using the tiger's mouths?

The interpretation I teach is from Professor I. I have only had it for a year or so. Professor I would definatly have a better explanation than I do.
 
DavidCC said:
Our 16 is completely different.

We do the cross-step right to 1030 and double-parry, but then the arms reverse direction, the left checks the attacker's right downwards as the right hand comes over the top for a hammer fist to the bridge of the nose as the left steps to 12. That's a really really poor write-up of what is a very flowing smooth technique...
Click to expand...

Hey David that beginning sound like the same motion as Villari has on his videos for the blocks/breaks during the Tiger walk & other parts of the form. Double blocks outside arm followed by inner Tiger's mouths breaking the elbow.

I have only seen this on the video. I have never tried it. I always had just twin blocks on 4 Pinan. Has any had that version from P4 and does it sound to you like the beginning of David's(CNG's?) #16 - the footwork obviously?
 
SK101 said:
I use the shin strike as a stop motion for the lower body, as for the off balancing I never thought about it, but it could be. The upper body is going to continue forward slightly or stop same as the front ball kick to the solar plexus version. Arm is extended while the person is dealing with the shin strike allowing the break to be used.

It sounds like you have a version where you trap the arm. I haven't tried that before, but I will try to play with it just to see how it feels. Do you trap by pulling into the chest or just using the tiger's mouths?

The interpretation I teach is from Professor I. I have only had it for a year or so. Professor I would definatly have a better explanation than I do.
Click to expand...

Use the front kick as a stopper, it should hit at the same time or just prior to the trap. It would be very difficult to trap the arm without stopping the opponents forward momentum first ... It can be done, but the timing is very difficult. The trap is with the tiger mouths, left at or slightly above the opponents right elbow, the right at the opponents right wrist. After this, we turn clockwise appliying an armbar to bring the opponent to his knees (this applies to the 'back to a wall' technique as well). The rest seems to be very similar, left axe kick, twist counter-clockwise, thrust punch to the temple. How many breaks/hyperextentions of that right arm are there? three? ... LOL
 
14 Kempo said:
Use the front kick as a stopper, it should hit at the same time or just prior to the trap. It would be very difficult to trap the arm without stopping the opponents forward momentum first ... It can be done, but the timing is very difficult. The trap is with the tiger mouths, left at or slightly above the opponents right elbow, the right at the opponents right wrist. After this, we turn clockwise appliying an armbar to bring the opponent to his knees (this applies to the 'back to a wall' technique as well). The rest seems to be very similar, left axe kick, twist counter-clockwise, thrust punch to the temple. How many breaks/hyperextentions of that right arm are there? three? ... LOL
Click to expand...

There are at least 3 breaks just on the axe kick twist - 1) Axe landing on the ball of the foot 2) Drop the heel 3) Twist the hips. Don't get me wrong people can do two here if they want, but it is possible to do 3 breaks. If you experiment with this be super careful! Sorry, but I am paranoid. For students who ask and don't get sick when you mention ripping eyes out, you do the 3 breaks to create a compound fracture(bone coming through the skin). I don't do the the palm press to elbow that some people do before the axe kick. Nothing against it, I just didn't learn it that way so I haven't taken the time to try it. Anyone using the palm to elbow break?

On the wall version can you finish the same? Thanks for that concept, I was not aware of it. Any other DMs besides 16 & 18 with wall versions?

Master Malgozzi(probably spellng wrong) demonstrated a concaving chest version for this break - Shoulders stayed forward while your chest "sucked in" to absord a chest punch then break the arm. It was just the break he was demonstrating not 16. I know I have heard martial artists complain about letting someone hit you in order to counter, but I am just passing on what was shown.
 
SK101 said:
On the wall version can you finish the same? Thanks for that concept, I was not aware of it. Any other DMs besides 16 & 18 with wall versions?
Click to expand...

With the wall version, there is no need to go any further. With the take down on both 16 and 18, you have driven the opponents head into a wall, car, tree ... whatever was at your back. There is no room, nor is there a need to continue.
 
SK101 said:
How about using the arm break when someone grabs one hand by the throat. Any thoughts on using 16 as a grab technique begining with a loosing strike to the shin.

I don't know what the exact circumstances were, but there was an SK master who took advantage of someone poking their finger into his chest at a movie theatre. He just used the break though, no shin kick or follow up. I suppose once the arm is broken you really don't need the rest.

I never cared for twin palms. I like double Tiger mouths. Any thoughts Pro or Con?

Does anyone find the knee/shin check harder to do for shorter students versus the front ball kick?
Click to expand...

I like an open tiger's mouth at the wrist and a palm at the elbow...it works for that first arm break in the combination.

I am short...I like using the front ball kick to just about any area that I can for that combination. It's just a mechanism to stop the person from coming closer.
 
"You say snakes all I hear is Easter Bunny"

Huh????
 
I always prefered the double tigers mouths ..arm break and I like the quick transition to arm bar as needed. I like this one for a lot of drills I can fill up an hour long class on 16! ok probably two.
 
Iron Leopard said:
I always prefered the double tigers mouths ..arm break and I like the quick transition to arm bar as needed. I like this one for a lot of drills I can fill up an hour long class on 16! ok probably two.
Click to expand...

Chances are, for me, I'm not doing an armbar. As I constantly post, I am short (I'm only 5' 4"). It seems like everyone and their mother is taller than I am, so I have adapted the combination for me. Plus, I have really small hands...my 8 year old cousin has hands that are almost as big as mine. With that being said, I would have to get the wrist control dead on for an arm to work for me. After 20 years, I do not see that actually happening for me. My best bet is to stop the person with the kick, break the arm and run away. I can totally see where you are coming from...seeing as you are a guy, with probably bigger hands than I have, as well as more strength. If it doesn't work when you start, you can fudge your way by using brut strength. As a female, I don't have that option. So, if I seem like I am changing combinations, I am doing what works for me when I practice with partners.
 
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