Should getting a Black Belt be this stressful?

[cay22]

Okay I want to start with a disclaimer, I do not want this to turn into a is he too young discussion. I have read the posts and I know how some of you feel about kids as BBs. In his school they do allow kids as young as 7-8 to test for BB so that is just the way it is there (Although I am beginning to think they should raise the age).

That being said here is what I need input on. My son has been taking TKD for 3.5 yrs and he is 8. He is slated to go up for review board this Sat the 10th. The review board at his school starts at 9:30am on a Sat and they black out the windows and no one is allowed in even parents. The students bring a lunch and it lasts 5-8 hrs depending on the number of students. After the review board (if they pass) they get ready for the Black Belt Show. That will be June 1st. From March 10th to June 1st the students must attend 2-3 mandatory candidate workouts a week along with their normal training. They are allowed only 1 excused absence and if they are sick for 2 weeks they are no longer in the show meaning they can no longer get their Black Belt. They must wait until next years show.

Here is my issue, my son is an emotional kid (he gets it from me) if he gets frustrated he cries. He does not quit and he will keep going through the tears but that is just his personality. Way back in Nov. before the Review Board stuff started I approached the owners of the school and asked them straight up if my son was ready to go up for BB. I made it clear that I was fine with him waiting another year (they only do it once a year). They said he was ready and they would make sure he was ready and he would do fine. Now I have no idea what goes on at Review Board because it is a big secret and no one is allowed to talk about it so I was relying on their knowledge of what goes on to determine if my son was ready. Well we are now less than a week from Review Board and my son has had private lessons, done all the prep work, attended 22 classes in Feb. alone just to get ready and the owner comes to him and tells him he may not allow him to go up for Review Board. I spoke with the owner last night and he said he is physically and mentally ready just not emotionally ready. He says he will probably cry and quit during review board and if he quits he is done. Is it common to be so hard on the kids that they quit during review board? He says he has even had an adult quit! It sounds more like a college hazing to me? Is this the norm for a BB test? If my son does not go up he will be crushed and humiliated. I feel that he is the same kid he was in Nov. and if they thought he was ready then he should be ready now. If they would have said then he was not ready I was fine with that but telling a child 4 days before review board after they have worked their rear off to get ready is just not right. I have gotten out of some of the parents whose kids went up at a young age that their kids said it was the worst day of their lives and came home crying. Is this really what getting your black belt is supposed to be about? He has worked so hard I hate to just pull him out and be done. This is the one thing we have found so far that he really enjoys.

I guess my question is, is this the norm and should the BB test be so awful that it is the worst day of a kids life? If so we may just have to be done with the arts. Just FYI- I also do TKD but started after my son so he is up for BB before me.

Thanks for any input you may have.
-Kate

 

[Cyriacus]

This is gonna sound harsh.
Some people quit way too easily.
It isnt remarkable.

As a comparative;
We get people who quit during BB Gradings. From Injuries sustained attempting it. Thats about it. And since this seems to be a matter of intensity, and a more Psychological Wall that needs to be overcome, itll come down to Perseverance.

So, I would suggest two things.
One; Tell them that He may become emotional, but tell them to disregard it. Explain to them, as You just did, that it isnt representative of being upset, so much as just His response to certain kinds of pressure, and that He always keeps going regardless. Its just an outlet He has little control over. The worst thing that can happen is if He gets teary throughout it, and someone gets all soft. Thatd lead to Him being suggestified into quitting. Just think, "Are you sure you want to keep going?" every couple of seconds.
Two; Dont let Him think this will be a bad experience. Tell Him itll be hard, then tell Him how good He will feel when He overcomes that objective. Encourage success. Do not fear difficulty.

Lastly, being a Black Belt ISNT meant to be about being soft. If thats what You want, find a Belt Factory and do Yoga, or something.
This means the Standards are decent. And it means that whether He succeeds or fails, attempting and persevering through to the end is an achievement in and of itself, succeed or fail.

 

[elder999]

the owner comes to him and tells him he may not allow him to go up for Review Board. I spoke with the owner last night and he said he is physically and mentally ready just not emotionally ready. He says he will probably cry and quit during review board and if he quits he is done.

If he doesn't test until next year, it sounds like something you already were concerned about before the 22 classes in one month, etc., so no big deal. IF he tests and doesn't pass, he'll take it again next year, so no big deal.

Either way, I don't see the big deal.

Is it common to be so hard on the kids that they quit during review board? He says he has even had an adult quit!

A 36 year old police officer broke down crying during one of my shodan tests-it's supposed to be hard. That said, I don't know anything about no 8 year old BB......

If my son does not go up he will be crushed and humiliated. I feel that he is the same kid he was in Nov. and if they thought he was ready then he should be ready now.

Well, you should point out what I said-either way, it's no big deal-certainly not worth being "crushed and humiliated." He has the rest of his life to practice TKD if he wants, one year more is a gift.

If they would have said then he was not ready I was fine with that but telling a child 4 days before review board after they have worked their rear off to get ready is just not right.

And maybe they're telling him that to motivate him. Just a thought.

I have gotten out of some of the parents whose kids went up at a young age that their kids said it was the worst day of their lives and came home crying. Is this really what getting your black belt is supposed to be about? He has worked so hard I hate to just pull him out and be done. This is the one thing we have found so far that he really enjoys.

Then, either way, it should be a lesson to him: there are disappointments in everything, even things we really enjoy.

 

[dancingalone]

There is no one size fits all answer. Some schools do make the BB exam a trial by ordeal of sorts while others handle it more as a graduation celebratory event. It seems like your child's school might fall more into the first group.

Fit is important in finding a school to train at. Has the atmosphere at your school been consistent before now? They seem a bit hard-nosed, which is fine, but it should have been explained well in advance that the BB test is stressful at their school and that failing is a very real possibility.

By the way, I am amazed they have child BBs with such an apparently demanding exam while not permitting the parents to watch. Lawsuit city!

 

[StudentCarl]

Usually this kind of experience/test is something a person remembers his whole life with pride for facing it. He will grow regardless of the result. We grow from facing tough challenges, not from always knowing the result before beginning nor even what the result is. I've grown more from my failures than my successes, though the really tough successes yield growth too.

I do agree with Dancingalone's concern about the appropriateness/legal jeopardy of nobody allowed, particularly with a minor.

 

[cay22]

To Dancingalone, I think that is my biggest issue is that NO it has not been consistent. Up until now it is a "big happy family" where they really help the kids get through all the tests. Yes they yell some and correct them but if a kid gets upset they give them a min to calm down and then go on. My son has gotten upset before but has never quit or stopped doing what he was supposed to, he has worked through it. Now all of a sudden they are going to he so hard on him he will quit? And no none of this is explained early on unless you directly ask. Once you have 3 years in it is hard to go somewhere else.

I was wondering about the legals of no parents there also.

 

[Twin Fist]

any school that wont let parents be present?

quit

run away

never look back

any instructor that is so stupid as to not allow parents to watch thier tests is too stupid to be allowed around children

i would NEVER be alone with a child. I would NEVER tell parents they cant watch.

NEVER

run.
run away

 

[Instructor]

If making black belt were easy then everybody would have one. Not to be hard on your son. But if you crack up and quit during the test then you are not a black belt. You are a mom and I know you are protecting him, but strength sometimes requires adversity, challenge, and stress. The stess he feels during this test is nothing compared to a real life and death fight if he should find himself in that position, I am sure you would want him physically, mentally, AND emotionally prepared.

If it makes you feel any better I can't teach my son with my wife in the room, she worries about every little bump.

 

[cay22]

To elder999 - I do understand that disappointment is a part of life and if told back in Nov. that he was not going up this year he would have been disappointed but gotten over it. I think (especially for a child) there is a big difference in telling them days before. Maybe I underestimate my child and he would bounce back and be fine but I still feel it is wrong to deny him after they continually told him he was ready. He has failed testings before so it is not like he expects to pass, he knows he must be ready. I guess I was just naive to think that if he was physically and mentally ready he would have the chance to pass. I hate to bring up the $ but if he does not pass I am out $200! That is a lot of money to pay someone to make my kid possibly feel like crap. All other testings he failed they "pretested" him so he failed before the actual testing.

 

[dancingalone]

To Dancingalone, I think that is my biggest issue is that NO it has not been consistent. Up until now it is a "big happy family" where they really help the kids get through all the tests. Yes they yell some and correct them but if a kid gets upset they give them a min to calm down and then go on. My son has gotten upset before but has never quit or stopped doing what he was supposed to, he has worked through it.

I can understand this would be upsetting. Perhaps they are one of those people who regard the BB as a firm line and they really want to make sure someone does well and deserves it before awarding it. But if that is the case, regular reminders that the BB test is no joke should be made.

Now all of a sudden they are going to he so hard on him he will quit?

Will he definitely quit? Our little ones can surprise us a lot sometimes. I will say this. I am someone who likes to give stressful tests myself, and as such I make it a point to understand how far I can push some physically and mentally before they breakdown. Hopefully, your child's instructor has a similar measure of him or perhaps the test is in the anticipation and worry in of itself.

And no none of this is explained early on unless you directly ask. Once you have 3 years in it is hard to go somewhere else.

If you ever have to move, I think you'll find that many TKD schools will accept rank transfers readily. They'll just work with your boy to get him up to speed on their own requirements before advancing him further.

I was wondering about the legals of no parents there also.

<shrugs> I would never teach a child without providing ready viewing access to the parents as well. My lawyer was very clear on that when we went over my operational plan for potential liability. Sometimes even the perception that something isn't kosher is enough to bring in all sorts of legal entanglements even when you've done nothing wrong at all.

I hate to bring up the $ but if he does not pass I am out $200! That is a lot of money to pay someone to make my kid possibly feel like crap. All other testings he failed they "pretested" him so he failed before the actual testing.

Most places have free retests for precisely this reason, so that the students don't feel cheated or taken advantage of financially. Ask what the policy is about this.

As a parent though, if you think your son is not ready, you should perhaps pull him from the exam after explaining to him the importance of growth, milestones, and reaching a high level of success at each level before attempting another?

 

[Steve]

The couple of things jump out at me based only on what you've said. First, taking you at your word, quitting isn't an issue for your son. Controlling emotions, maybe... but I agree with you that it seems odd that after knowing your son for over 3 years, they now believe him to be a quitter. I personally don't believe in mind games with kids. So, if they're telling him this in what I'd call an extremely misguided attempt at motivation, that's a red flag for me.

More concerning, however, is what TF mentioned. They won't let you be present during the testing? I have a real problem with that. They want to do something with my kids and I'm not there? Not a chance. No way in hell. That is a huge red flag for me. Secret stuff for adults would also be a red flag, but you bring 7 to 10 year old kids into the mix and I'm extremely suspicious.

While I want to be clear that we've only heard one side of this story and have no way to verify any of the allegations, taken at face value this is a very weird situation.

 

[Jenna]

I am really sorry -and a little bit worried- to hear that your son will be crushed and humiliated by not achieving BB status this year. Crushed and humiliated are extremely depressing words when talking of a child so young. I hope that does not happen.

If a less than favourable outcome happened, he is still the same great boy and you the same concerned and loving mother. I understand that you have all worked hard for this and but nobody is any less worthy if BB is not reached just now.

I truly hope it works out for the best. And if it does not, that you can find a way to reframe the crushing and humiliating catastrophe as just one of those unexpected and unforseen situations that we cannot always plan for, but always manage to deal with and to survive.

Wishes

 

[miguksaram]

We have, what I consider, a tough test for the Jr. BB. However, the minimum age for it is 10 years so I am not quite sure how an 8 year old would handle it. That being said, if the instructor will not allow him to test after you have paid for the private lessons to prep him, then I would ask for the money back in the private lessons. Like you said, he is the same kid as he was in November when they were willing to take your money for the lessons.

Keep in mind, or perhaps they should keep in mind, that he has been working his butt of almost everyday. That can lead to some physical and mental exhaustion which may be a factor into why he seems more emotional than usual. Regardless, I would push to have him test. It would be better to try and fail than to be told he is not mentally ready (I know they said he was mentally but emotionally ready but to me they go hand in hand).

Final thought, we do not allow parents in during our black belt testings either. It is a harsh test, that we are more concerned with parents freaking out than the kids. We do not "black" out the windows, but we do not allow them in the door either. We have several black belts on hand to test them, so they are not alone, and they test at the same time as our adult black belt test.

 

[Touch Of Death]

There are so many things wrong with this thread. :mst:

 

[Steve]

Final thought, we do not allow parents in during our black belt testings either. It is a harsh test, that we are more concerned with parents freaking out than the kids. We do not "black" out the windows, but we do not allow them in the door either. We have several black belts on hand to test them, so they are not alone, and they test at the same time as our adult black belt test.

If a parent insisted, are you saying you would refuse? No way in hell. That's just flat out wrong, in my book. Would you mind sharing your rationale?

 

[Instructor]

Watching someone get pushed right up to their breaking point isn't easy, it's one reason I am not sure about black belt children. But that is not what this thread is about.

I too agree that you should be able to watch the test. I don't think that you should be able to interrupt it. If his instructors have been above board to this point you should have grown to trust them. If you dont' trust them then get your son out of there!

$200 is not really a lot of money when it comes to children. In the span of your sons life and his well being it's a rather token amount. If he takes the tests and passes he will gain something from that. If he takes the tests and fails and then a year later takes the test again and passes, in a way he will learn an even more valuable lesson.

 

[miguksaram]

If a parent insisted, are you saying you would refuse? No way in hell. That's just flat out wrong, in my book. Would you mind sharing your rationale?

Yes, we would refuse. The bottom line is that it distracts the student and we explain that to the parent. These kids need to be 100% focused on the test. What purpose would it hold for them sit there for 4-5 hours? We cannot have the parents coming in and out at their convenience, they cannot take pictures, and there is NO outside discussions allowed, even from those present at the test. Even during their water breaks they do not converse.

Regardless if you feel it is wrong or not, it is how Sensei Sharkey has ran his black belt tests since he has had them some 30+ years ago and will continue to do so.

 

[Cyriacus]

Yes, we would refuse. The bottom line is that it distracts the student and we explain that to the parent. These kids need to be 100% focused on the test. What purpose would it hold for them sit there for 4-5 hours? We cannot have the parents coming in and out at their convenience, they cannot take pictures, and there is NO outside discussions allowed, even from those present at the test. Even during their water breaks they do not converse.

Regardless if you feel it is wrong or not, it is how Sensei Sharkey has ran his black belt tests since he has had them some 30+ years ago and will continue to do so.

Im inclined to approve. Some Parents have this nasty habit of 'getting involved'.

 

[Instructor]

I also approve.

 

[Manny]

Any tkd dojang/sambonim who not allow parents to see the test of their children and or makes children runing into tears as a result of emotional abuse should be closed, period. We can not test children as adults, the children are emotional by nature and some adults too. i remeber I had towait one year more to obtain my black belt, my sambonim at that time said to me I was not ready, don't liked it but thanxs to it the next year I did a very very good black belt test, and yes it was not easy to spar with three large black belts at the same time, it was not easy do the board breaking and it was not easy to endure all the test but my spirit was big and I could pass the test with flying colours. At 43 yeras old and with 3 year of comback to tkd I did my second degree black belt and yes I was a little afraid abou the stamina, the altitude of mexico City that could afect me, afraid to be severily beaten by a young stud and the only thing I was not allowed to do at this test was to fight to 3 or 4 young black belts BUT I know if this was mandatory I will die in the arena before quiting!

The poom examination I have seen of small children it's a nice thing, my sambonim demand weeks before the examination good technike, desicion and determination but never to the pint of making a child broke in tears, never!! this is kind of abuse.

If your boy was my boy, I would demand see the test and the pretest or whatever just to ensure my biy will be ok, if sambonim or board odes not allow me then I will remove my boy of the dojang and would fine another more friendly where my boy could be fine.

Manny