Better quality training! Need advice.

[Daniel Sullivan]

...to give you an example, we have not been taught anything about "chamber", and there are only 3 of us who do not hop on the spinning leg during a tornado kick, and a girl who was testing was asked to break a board with a punch, and she punched it with her thumb inside of her fist, elbow at shoulder level (is there a smilie with a bag over it's head?).

If the term chamber isn't used, but the technique is being taught, then fine; that could be a language issue. I've never heard GM Kim use the word chamber in instruction, but he instructs the technique.

The tornado kick isn't the biggest indicator; it is a difficult kick, even at black belt level. The girl being allowed to punch in a way that is so obviously wrong is of greater concern if it was not corrected by the instructor.

The older students are given more detailed instruction, and would never be allowed to punch that way, but it bothers me that the younger students are allowed such improper technique that they could actually badly hurt themselves. I believe I am receiving the most detail of all, but still...

This is the biggest problem that I see in what you have described. Depending on the age of the students, they may or may not be able to receive correction and effect it. But regardless, correction should be given. The impression that this gives is one of kiddie blackbelt factory, while the more serious students receive more in depth instruction. The biggest problem here is that some of those kiddies become serious students, and then must unlearn all of the bad habbits that they were allowed to pick up.

Daniel

Edit: I am of the opinion that if a student is unable to receive instruction due to age, then the parents should simply be told so. Some four year olds take to trainng very well. Others can't keep from running around and goofing off for more than about five minutes, which is not uncommon for four year olds. Such students simply need a little more time to mature. Some older kids, such as from eight to twelve, can comprehend what is being told to them but they don't have the physical coordination and/or muscle tone to truely correct it. For those students, it can simply be a matter of working on correcting the technique. This requires a fair amount of instructor involvement, however.

 

[dancingalone]

This is where I strongly second guess myself. I know the curriculum (for this dojang, anyhow), I have the flexibility, the endurance, I love intense training, and I know I'm a good student and maybe I am judging the school based on how much the young students get away with. Maybe this whole thing is about me second guessing my abilities when GM knows that I'm good enough - although if this was the case, I wouldn't be second guessing my abilities, yes? I have had 5 day/week almost one on one training for the 8 months I have been there, so maybe I am better than I think I am - you're right, someone with less than a year training can't be objective, and that's where I'm confused.

This is where I believe breaking is a good test of your skills, especially for women who may be smaller and less strong than a male with the equivalent level of experience yet can get by on brute strength.

Consider setting up a breaking station with three holders with two boards each. They can be positioned to your left, right and immediate front. Break the left boards with a back leg right roundhouse kick with the ball of your foot. Plant the right kicking foot and immediately break the boards that were originally towards your front with a spinning kick like the sidekick or hook kick. Step towards the last set of boards and break with a palm heel strike or a ridgehand (if you're feeling good).

If you can accomplish this combination break smoothly without pause and without hurting yourself, I'd say you deserve a red belt/brown belt in taekwondo. I've seen plenty of TKD high gups who can't accomplish this.

 

[BrandonLucas]

This is where I strongly second guess myself. I know the curriculum (for this dojang, anyhow), I have the flexibility, the endurance, I love intense training, and I know I'm a good student and maybe I am judging the school based on how much the young students get away with. Maybe this whole thing is about me second guessing my abilities when GM knows that I'm good enough - although if this was the case, I wouldn't be second guessing my abilities, yes? I have had 5 day/week almost one on one training for the 8 months I have been there, so maybe I am better than I think I am - you're right, someone with less than a year training can't be objective, and that's where I'm confused.

I wouldn't say that you can't be objective, necessarily. The fact that you recognize that you need work is a huge step in the right direction.

That being said, you have to learn to not be too hard on yourself...there is such a thing as being realistically critical.

If you feel like you're not progressing to the point that your instructor feels that you are, then you may be right about that, and you may simply need to spend more time at a lower rank before you progress any further...but that doesn't mean that you have to be "perfect" in your technique, either.

If you feel like you're not performing up to standard, then you probably aren't. Granted, your instructor is usually the one to make this call, but if you feel like you're just getting passed up too quickly, then you can certainly ask to slow down to make sure you understand the cirriculum, and to hone your technique.

But, don't stay at bluebelt for a year just because you feel like your side kick isn't picture perfect or you can't kick at head level. Those things come in time...I know quite a few blackbelts that don't have "picture perfect" sidekicks, but they are effective in how they kick.

But I applaud you for being able to recognize your progress yourself.

 

[jks9199]

...to give you an example, we have not been taught anything about "chamber", and there are only 3 of us who do not hop on the spinning leg during a tornado kick, and a girl who was testing was asked to break a board with a punch, and she punched it with her thumb inside of her fist, elbow at shoulder level (is there a smilie with a bag over it's head?).

The older students are given more detailed instruction, and would never be allowed to punch that way, but it bothers me that the younger students are allowed such improper technique that they could actually badly hurt themselves. I believe I am receiving the most detail of all, but still...

This worries me.

It's possible that the girl simply made the fist wrong due to the stress of doing a break, or whatever -- but this is something that suggests that proper time and attention isn't being given to such a fundamental element as how to form a fist. If the girl had a habit of forming a fist so badly, she shouldn't have been breaking!

 

[dancingalone]

But, don't stay at bluebelt for a year just because you feel like your side kick isn't picture perfect or you can't kick at head level. Those things come in time...I know quite a few blackbelts that don't have "picture perfect" sidekicks, but they are effective in how they kick.

What's the hurry? I'd rather be a GREAT blue belt than a black belt that has ugly, disjointed kicks. Why accept a higher rank just to accept a higher rank? Wouldn't it be better to maximize one's potential at each belt before moving on? I agree if the Faerie feels she's being passed on prematurely she probably is not ready for the promotion.

Granted I do not teach taekwondo, but it's actually the norm in my school for one to stay at blue belt (6th kyu/gup) for a year or more. It's an important developmental stage when you already know your fundamental techniques and are working on flow, smoothness, transition, and power.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

This is where I believe breaking is a good test of your skills, especially for women who may be smaller and less strong than a male with the equivalent level of experience yet can get by on brute strength.

Consider setting up a breaking station with three holders with two boards each. They can be positioned to your left, right and immediate front. Break the left boards with a back leg right roundhouse kick with the ball of your foot. Plant the right kicking foot and immediately break the boards that were originally towards your front with a spinning kick like the sidekick or hook kick. Step towards the last set of boards and break with a palm heel strike or a ridgehand (if you're feeling good).

If you can accomplish this combination break smoothly without pause and without hurting yourself, I'd say you deserve a red belt/brown belt in taekwondo. I've seen plenty of TKD high gups who can't accomplish this.

Great observation. I'd like to add that the gents at red/brown level should be able to perform the same combination of breaks without muscling through using poor technique. The whole point of breaking is test one's technique, not brute strength (I know you know, I say this for the benefit of others)

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

What's the hurry? I'd rather be a GREAT blue belt than a black belt that has ugly, disjointed kicks. Why accept a higher rank just to accept a higher rank? Wouldn't it be better to maximize one's potential at each belt before moving on? I agree if the Faerie feels she's being passed on prematurely she probably is not ready for the promotion.

Granted I do not teach taekwondo, but it's actually the norm in my school for one to stay at blue belt (6th kyu/gup) for a year or more. It's an important developmental stage when you already know your fundamental techniques and are working on flow, smoothness, transition, and power.

I agree. Be the best that you reasonably can at whatever belt level you're currently at rather than worrying about the next level.

One observation, however is that some schools have multiple levels of each belt., so in theory, one could be a blue belt of some sort for close to a year and yet be 'promoted' multiple times. I'm not crazy about that sort of set up; blue and a red tip are more than enough. Addng in a blue recommended, blue decide, blue/red tip recommended and blue/red tip decided is entirely too much in my opinion.

Daniel

 

[faerie2]

This is where I believe breaking is a good test of your skills, especially for women who may be smaller and less strong than a male with the equivalent level of experience yet can get by on brute strength.

Consider setting up a breaking station with three holders with two boards each. They can be positioned to your left, right and immediate front. Break the left boards with a back leg right roundhouse kick with the ball of your foot. Plant the right kicking foot and immediately break the boards that were originally towards your front with a spinning kick like the sidekick or hook kick. Step towards the last set of boards and break with a palm heel strike or a ridgehand (if you're feeling good).

If you can accomplish this combination break smoothly without pause and without hurting yourself, I'd say you deserve a red belt/brown belt in taekwondo. I've seen plenty of TKD high gups who can't accomplish this.

i think you're right about the breaking, because the boards aren't going to make it easier on me because it may be an easy school. For my black stripe test, the breaking was (separately) tornado kick, back hook kick, roundhouse, and jumping front kick (held at instructors head height) and combination tornado kick back hook kick. I broke them all easily with no pain, of course the heater was acting up, and my feet were frozen, so maybe this numbed them a little, haha No hand breaking though. I felt really good about that, so I don't know if i'm judging everything based on how they instruct the kids. They do seem to teach to the individuals level, but they don't push people, besides me. If a student is a goofball, then they don't try to make them less of one, if the student is like me and has to be kicked out at the end of the day, and trains until their feet bleed, then they tell us to do things we think that we can't possibly do and smile when they see us accomplish it. Maybe he's just so excited to have someone there who is crazy obsessed with their training and want to reward me somehow, and instead of harder work, or heck - even vodka shots , they advance my rank prematurely.

 

[faerie2]

This worries me.

It's possible that the girl simply made the fist wrong due to the stress of doing a break, or whatever -- but this is something that suggests that proper time and attention isn't being given to such a fundamental element as how to form a fist. If the girl had a habit of forming a fist so badly, she shouldn't have been breaking!

I wish this was the case! When she kicks the bag during training, half the time, the bag knocks her to the floor, and it's not even moving :xtrmshock

What's the hurry? I'd rather be a GREAT blue belt than a black belt that has ugly, disjointed kicks. Why accept a higher rank just to accept a higher rank? Wouldn't it be better to maximize one's potential at each belt before moving on? I agree if the Faerie feels she's being passed on prematurely she probably is not ready for the promotion.

Exactly! I have accepted the rank promotions because I was of the mind that a) if GM didn't think I was ready, he wouldn't have offered it, and b) I would feel as though I would be insulting him somehow if I declined, as though I was saying that I think I know my level better than he does.
... but at this point, I really think that I should be blue belt rather than black stripe.

 

[IcemanSK]

Exactly! I have accepted the rank promotions because I was of the mind that a) if GM didn't think I was ready, he wouldn't have offered it, and b) I would feel as though I would be insulting him somehow if I declined, as though I was saying that I think I know my level better than he does.
... but at this point, I really think that I should be blue belt rather than black stripe.

I understand your struggle with your GM. On the one hand, you figure he knows more than you. One the other hand, your perception is that you're moving too fast. The Korean student/instructor relationship vs. the American way of asking questions & getting answers.

As has been said above, you'd rather be a decent blue belt than a BB with questionable skill. You need to settle it in your own mind, as you've said. You need to have a frank discussion with your GM about these concerns. IMO

 

[faerie2]

I understand your struggle with your GM. On the one hand, you figure he knows more than you. One the other hand, your perception is that you're moving too fast. The Korean student/instructor relationship vs. the American way of asking questions & getting answers.

As has been said above, you'd rather be a decent blue belt than a BB with questionable skill. You need to settle it in your own mind, as you've said. You need to have a frank discussion with your GM about these concerns. IMO

This is the problem though, the language barrier. I speak very little Korean, and his English comprehension isn't that great. I tried debating him over my blue belt, he just smiled, nodded, said "well... you passed" and gave me the belt. I will be talking to his sons this week (instructors at this dojang), their English is much better than his. They no doubt trained longer for their 1st gup than I have, and if I were them, I would be outraged, so hopefully they will get what I am driving at.

 

[terryl965]

Here is my perception of all of this, you respect your instructor skill but not his teaching methods right? I f so accept the promotion and go about your training, remember some Korean Master do not really start to teach until after you reach BB level and this maybe the case for him. If the langauge berrier is so bad get someone to translate what you are trying to say. I am not trying to be hard here but you need to make the choices that are best for you and there is nobody here that can really help since non of us know your instructor. I wish I had some magic words for you but there are not any.

 

[faerie2]

Here is my perception of all of this, you respect your instructor skill but not his teaching methods right? I f so accept the promotion and go about your training, remember some Korean Master do not really start to teach until after you reach BB level and this maybe the case for him. If the langauge berrier is so bad get someone to translate what you are trying to say. I am not trying to be hard here but you need to make the choices that are best for you and there is nobody here that can really help since non of us know your instructor. I wish I had some magic words for you but there are not any.

I disagree, everyone who has replied has been a huge help in forming my decision! I did start out thinking that he was the sort who didn't start training until BB (I believe you were the one who told me to just go about my training and take rank advancements as they come, trust GM), but the whole way through, I have been trained with the BBs (well, pooms), and am already doing everything they are doing and have done so right from the get go.

Any different perspective and opinion on this is magic words It's hard to make a decision on something that I don't know as much about as many of you do.

 

[terryl965]

They have given you there perspective on the subject and yes I said accept the rank but I also read where you are know really starting to question what he is doing and I also hear self doubt is this right and if so then it changes things in my book. Not understanding and not trusting is something totally different with me, I can not understand and train with someone and hopefully I will get it, but if I do not trust my GM then I cannot train under him. I hope you keep training and find the blind faith one needs with this.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Actually, I think the question here should be why you are taking TKD at this very moment?

1. Are you involved in TKD at this point because you want to stay in shape until you can move to another school?

2. Are you involved in TKD at this point because you have stayed in it this long and don't want to give it up?

3. Are you involved in TKD at this point because you want to finish what you started and earn a blackbelt from your current instructor?

You have already figured out that you would rather wait to earn your blackbelt through harder training, so that answers question 3. So, really, it's between 1 and 2.

The main thing is that you need to be honest with yourself as to why you want to stay involved or why you want to move on. If you don't feel that you can talk to your instructor, then you'll have to look very closely at what you want to do.

 

[faerie2]

Actually, I think the question here should be why you are taking TKD at this very moment?

1. Are you involved in TKD at this point because you want to stay in shape until you can move to another school?

2. Are you involved in TKD at this point because you have stayed in it this long and don't want to give it up?

3. Are you involved in TKD at this point because you want to finish what you started and earn a blackbelt from your current instructor?

You have already figured out that you would rather wait to earn your blackbelt through harder training, so that answers question 3. So, really, it's between 1 and 2.

The main thing is that you need to be honest with yourself as to why you want to stay involved or why you want to move on. If you don't feel that you can talk to your instructor, then you'll have to look very closely at what you want to do.

Excellent questions! I started out really wanting to take Kung Fu. From what I understood, it would work best with my frame and strengths. From what I understood about TKD, it's strengths were in speed, and I thought I would have a hard time developing that being 34 and just having had my second child - even though I was in excellent shape. There weren't any KF schools near by, but there was a TKD school a few blocks away. We enrolled our daughter right after our son was born, and I noticed they said they had an 'adult class'. It's a little dim on my part to sign up without having seen one of these 'adult classes' first hand, I just thought I had a pretty good beat on the instructors and my daughter really enjoyed it there, it was close and I felt comfortable there. A few months ago, I notice a Kung Fu school open up just a little farther down the street. My husband checked it out, and there are actually several adults, and the instruction is very detailed. Now I not only have to think about moving myself to another school, I have to consider whether I want my daughter to continue there too.

All of the above are true to some point, I'm still not 100% clear on #3 though. I am realizing more and more that I already am getting the more advanced instruction, I have been trained with the BBs all along, so the training won't get any better or be any different with a BB. I knew very little of MA before I started TKD, and after being with this place for a while, I know that I shouldn't be second guessing myself like this, and I know I shouldn't be 1st geup in 8 months! It seems the more I learn about MA in general, the more I am craving more in depth instruction, and I don't believe I will get it where I am. I just hate to leave something that I have invested so much into.

THanks for these questions - again, every little piece is helping me to form a solid direction that I won't regret. To add one more plus to the KF side, my husband just told me that his sensei has a daughter who loves watching kids while their parents train, and there are many parents who bring their kids while they are training. I feel like I will have much more in common with this group than a bunch of tweens with appalling classroom etiquette. Sadly, and I'm just discovering this right now that the reason I'm staying is because I'm afraid to leave. GM wouldn't understand if I explained it to him (again, language barrier), and I feel like their feelings would be hurt to have their "best student", and only adult student just leave. I feel that GM is heavily invested in me receiving a BB, and I want to live up to his expectations, but I don't think these are very good reasons to stay.

.... so how does one leave a Dojang?

 

[BrandonLucas]

Excellent questions! I started out really wanting to take Kung Fu. From what I understood, it would work best with my frame and strengths. From what I understood about TKD, it's strengths were in speed, and I thought I would have a hard time developing that being 34 and just having had my second child - even though I was in excellent shape. There weren't any KF schools near by, but there was a TKD school a few blocks away. We enrolled our daughter right after our son was born, and I noticed they said they had an 'adult class'. It's a little dim on my part to sign up without having seen one of these 'adult classes' first hand, I just thought I had a pretty good beat on the instructors and my daughter really enjoyed it there, it was close and I felt comfortable there. A few months ago, I notice a Kung Fu school open up just a little farther down the street. My husband checked it out, and there are actually several adults, and the instruction is very detailed. Now I not only have to think about moving myself to another school, I have to consider whether I want my daughter to continue there too.

All of the above are true to some point, I'm still not 100% clear on #3 though. I am realizing more and more that I already am getting the more advanced instruction, I have been trained with the BBs all along, so the training won't get any better or be any different with a BB. I knew very little of MA before I started TKD, and after being with this place for a while, I know that I shouldn't be second guessing myself like this, and I know I shouldn't be 1st geup in 8 months! It seems the more I learn about MA in general, the more I am craving more in depth instruction, and I don't believe I will get it where I am. I just hate to leave something that I have invested so much into.

THanks for these questions - again, every little piece is helping me to form a solid direction that I won't regret. To add one more plus to the KF side, my husband just told me that his sensei has a daughter who loves watching kids while their parents train, and there are many parents who bring their kids while they are training. I feel like I will have much more in common with this group than a bunch of tweens with appalling classroom etiquette.

.... so how does one leave a Dojang?

Leaving your Dojang is a touchy subject. It's really hard to say how it should properly be handled, because you have to take into consideration how you are going to feel about leaving it, if that's what you choose to do.

The best thing is always to at least speak with your instructor about any concerns that you have about the instruction and about leaving. But, since you've already said that there's a language barrier, that can be hard to do. If it were me, though, I would still try to explain my situation as basically, simply, and clearly as possible.

Now, if you don't feel like that is an option, then you'll need to figure out how you're going to feel leaving unannounced. I can tell you from personal experience, it left me feeling empty and guilty. I had the option of talking to my instructor, but I didn't. That was my choice, and I felt like it was better to leave without saying anything than it was to try to explain my situation.

It's a very personal thing trying to figure out how to leave a dojang or instructor. I don't think that there's a right or wrong answer. But that's why I was saying that you need to be honest with yourself as to whether or not. If you're honest with yourself, and you truly feel like you need to be somewhere else getting different instruction, then your decision will be honestly justified. As long as your decision is honestly justified with yourself, then it's the right decision for you.

 

[Kacey]

This is where I strongly second guess myself. I know the curriculum (for this dojang, anyhow), I have the flexibility, the endurance, I love intense training, and I know I'm a good student and maybe I am judging the school based on how much the young students get away with. Maybe this whole thing is about me second guessing my abilities when GM knows that I'm good enough - although if this was the case, I wouldn't be second guessing my abilities, yes? I have had 5 day/week almost one on one training for the 8 months I have been there, so maybe I am better than I think I am - you're right, someone with less than a year training can't be objective, and that's where I'm confused.

The question that I haven't seen answered in this thread is this: why is your training different than the training other students receive? I'm not talking about the time - obviously, many people can't afford (time and/or money) to train at a dojang 5 times/week - I'm talking about the quality of the instruction, and why you seem to be getting more detailed, and possibly higher quality, instruction than the other students in the dojang. It's been recommended several times that you talk to the instructors - have you talked to any of the other students about your concerns?

This is where I believe breaking is a good test of your skills, especially for women who may be smaller and less strong than a male with the equivalent level of experience yet can get by on brute strength.

Consider setting up a breaking station with three holders with two boards each. They can be positioned to your left, right and immediate front. Break the left boards with a back leg right roundhouse kick with the ball of your foot. Plant the right kicking foot and immediately break the boards that were originally towards your front with a spinning kick like the sidekick or hook kick. Step towards the last set of boards and break with a palm heel strike or a ridgehand (if you're feeling good).

If you can accomplish this combination break smoothly without pause and without hurting yourself, I'd say you deserve a red belt/brown belt in taekwondo. I've seen plenty of TKD high gups who can't accomplish this.

I agree that breaking is a good test of skill, and that the break you describe would be a good test of one's breaking abilities - but I would not use any break, in isolation from testing other skills, to determine a student's rank. Every student has his/her own strengths - and I am much more interested in a student's overall abilities, especially as those abilities affect the ability to defend oneself, than I am about the fairly isolated skill of breaking. Yes, those breaks would demonstrate focus, power, and technique - but as much as I like breaking (and yes, we break at every rank for every testing) there are too many variables that can affect it - including the quality of the wood (or, if plastic boards are use, the amount they've been used, as they get looser with use), the stability of the holders, any injuries the person may currently have, and so on - I would not use the ability to perform a break, no matter how complex, to determine if a student should be a particular rank.

There are two things about breaking that need to be remembered in this context:
- Boards don't hit back
- Boards are a stationary target
These two issues make breaking, while a valid test of technique, something I would not use in isolation to determine rank; as part of a more detailed examination, certainly - but not alone.

.... so how does one leave a Dojang?

It depends on whether or not you want to have a good relationship after you leave. Given that your daughter is there, and may stay, and that you have what sounds like a positive relationship with the instructors and the dojang in general, I would guess that you do - so at that point I would go to the instructors, as previously stated, and discuss your concerns. Once you've done that, you can see if anything changes; if so, you may not need to leave; if not, well, you tried, and then you can honestly tell them that you're not getting what you want/need from their dojang and want to go try something else and see if it fits your wants/needs better.

Good luck to you, whichever course you choose!

 

[jks9199]

Regarding leaving:

Are some of the other instructors more fluent in both languages? Perhaps you can sit down with them and the chief instructor, and discus it. Or hire a translator for an afternoon.

You've invested a year, and something coming up on 1000 hours, or more (based on 3 hours a day, 5 days a week) into training at this school. They've invested the same time, and they've worked with you. That's a lot of time and work, on both sides. It's worth investing an afternoon to discuss this and be sure there are no misunderstandings. That way, if you choose to leave, you can be certain that everyone is on the same page about why -- and has had a chance to tell their side, or even try to correct it.

from one point of view -- training is a simple business transaction; you $x for y hours of instruction, plus any testing fees. The instructor agrees to teach, and to promote you if you pass the tests. But, in other ways, it's often a much closer relationship than the pure business implies, just as happens in many student/teacher environments. That part of the relationship suggests doing more than simply no longer coming to class.

 

[faerie2]

The question that I haven't seen answered in this thread is this: why is your training different than the training other students receive? I'm not talking about the time - obviously, many people can't afford (time and/or money) to train at a dojang 5 times/week - I'm talking about the quality of the instruction, and why you seem to be getting more detailed, and possibly higher quality, instruction than the other students in the dojang. It's been recommended several times that you talk to the instructors - have you talked to any of the other students about your concerns?

LOL, the other students range from 8 to 14 years old!! THey are all there because their parents are making them go, a few are really in to it, but it's mostly the parents. I can see that the instructors push me, where they don't bother to push the other kids. I'm pushed because I'm 20 years older than everyone else, and I'm the only one paying their way (not to mention, I'm the only one who can drive, and vote, lol). They push me because they see me pushing myself - nobody else pushes themselves, they're all just kids who just do the bare minimum of what's required. I don't like training in that environment.

It depends on whether or not you want to have a good relationship after you leave. Given that your daughter is there, and may stay, and that you have what sounds like a positive relationship with the instructors and the dojang in general, I would guess that you do - so at that point I would go to the instructors, as previously stated, and discuss your concerns. Once you've done that, you can see if anything changes; if so, you may not need to leave; if not, well, you tried, and then you can honestly tell them that you're not getting what you want/need from their dojang and want to go try something else and see if it fits your wants/needs better.

Good luck to you, whichever course you choose!

I agree, it will take some explanation. I guess that's why I'm trying to clearly understand a) if I want to leave b) when I want to leave c) if I want to go to a different Dojang d) if I want to start all over with Kung Fu. Every time I think I have an answer, something jumps out of the woodwork as a new variable. It's an interesting journey, and a well placed fork in the road

I also don't like having to tell someone that they're not doing a very good job (however delicately it's said, that's what it really boils down to). Maybe if I just focus on my needs, ie: I need to train with adults, I need more detailed instruction, and my Korean sucks