Recent Video by Alan Orr

[LFJ]

I've been posting from a phone. Inconvenient. It's in that thread. Just go look for it.

 

[guy b.]

But you don't know of any that are good examples of WSLVT????

I have quite a few video clips of excellent VT sparring.

 

[guy b.]

Does that mean, "No, there aren't any good PB-WSL-VT sparring clips out there to recommend"? ....Darn.

There are good sparring clips. I think they are unlikely to be posted on this forum. KPM always attacks the man when he's lost an argument. Same again here. It is disappointing to see other forum members acting in the same way.

If I post a clip online claiming something then I will expect to answer questions on that claim. Until that time I won't.

 

[geezer]

There would need to be a reason to share

I can think of several:

First off, sharing info is a big part of what we all do here. You, yourself frequently ask for explanations about other people's approaches to WC/VT/WT. And you have at various times expressed disappointment, irritation or disdain when others (KPM, Joy, etc.) have refused to do so.

Secondly, you've criticized Jai for not showing WSL-VT when sparring:

I have no connection with JH and have no idea about his ability in VT, but VT in a fight does not look like that.

So naturally, that leads to the question, What should WSL-VT look like in a "fight" or sparring bout?

Finally, there is a general paucity of good sparring or fighting clips of WC/VT/WT (any lineage) showing classical WC techniques being used successfully against solid opposition by a versatile MMA fighter. The WC guys who are successful seem to be either 1. much more experienced or able than their opponents or 2. Like Alan's fighters, they use a wide ranging MMA approach that outwardly doesn't look much like classical WC.

So if either you or LFJ can show some good clips of your VT looking good in a sparring situation, I'm sure most everybody here would appreciate it.

On the other hand, playing coy and demanding a reason to share, and broadly questioning the honesty and motives of everyone else here really doesn't show you at your best, if you really stop to think about it.

 

[SaulGoodman]

Now you're just back to lying again. We answer your same question on every thread, and I did give you a clip on the taan-sau thread. You ignored it then and you're ignoring it again now.

---There you go accusing me of being a liar again! I'm not lying about anything. But it has been awhile since that thread. If I ignored a good clip, then I apologize for that. Please post it again here so we can all review it properly.

Never mind tan sau clips, let's see some VT tm sparring/fighting clips. Let's see some blood sweat and tears goddam it!

 

[guy b.]

First off, sharing info is a big part of what we all do here.

You are joking?

You, yourself frequently ask for explanations about other people's approaches to WC/VT/WT. And you have at various times expressed disappointment, irritation or disdain when others (KPM, Joy, etc.) have refused to do so.

I am very happy to answer questions and provide explanations.

So naturally, that leads to the question, What should WSL-VT look like in a "fight" or sparring bout?

Ask away.

broadly questioning the honesty and motives of everyone else here really doesn't show you at your best

What do you suggest when honesty and motives appear suspect?

 

[geezer]

You are joking?

Never quite sure about that myself.

I am very happy to answer questions and provide explanations.

Wonderful! We've all heard that a picture is worth a thousand words. So a videoclip that shows exactly what you mean would worth even more. So rather than a wall of text go right ahead and post something that can clear this up.

What do you suggest when honesty and motives appear suspect?

Hey, I've made a strong effort to refrain from questioning your motives and honesty regardless of what others say. Seriously now.

 

[KPM]

I have quite a few video clips of excellent VT sparring.

---Great! Let's see them!

KPM always attacks the man when he's lost an argument.

---That's funny. I don't recall losing any arguments lately. Is your paranoid delusion expanding? Have I attacked anyone? Are you going to see me leaping at you from dark alleys when you go shopping? Let me put your mind at rest...I live in the US and have no intentions of visiting the UK in the near future.

 

[guy b.]

So rather than a wall of text go right ahead and post something that can clear this up

I will try to be concise. Ask away

 

[guy b.]

Is your paranoid delusion expanding? Have I attacked anyone? Are you going to see me leaping at you from dark alleys when you go shopping? Let me put your mind at rest...I live in the US and have no intentions of visiting the UK in the near future.

Continuing to attack the person not the argument

 

[guy b.]

I've made a strong effort to refrain

Why bother? I don't mind if you tell me what you think about my motives.

 

[guy b.]

So does this amount to a "no response" to the question about Alan's unbalacing skills showing up in chi sau but not in fighting? If the question can't be answered then that's ok, but it would save time just to say it.

As LFJ says, feel free to think whatever you like about the quality of my VT. It doesn't change the question on the table, which hasn't been answered by Alan or anyone else.

 

[geezer]

I will try to be concise. Ask away

I just did. Are you really that obtuse, or just being cute. ...or acute and obtuse at the same time. Now that is an oxymoron!

Say, while I've got your attention, might I suggest that we resolve this whole disingenuous issue about KPM and Saul being one person (on two continents, yet) and you and LFJ (similarly one and yet divided) by having you refer to each other as teams! ...at least for the times when you seem to be taking identical positions. That way rather than derail a thread over trumped-up (an especially apt term for these times, at least in the USA) identity issues, you can simply reply to both of the opposing parties using their team name.

So you could start by picking team names and a mascot, like for example, the GB-LFJ Jackals (straining to find some alliteration here) vs KPM-SG, aka "Goodman and Associates", or Myers and his Malicious Magpies. Looking forward to your decision. Oh and still waiting for that videoclip. Please hurry. I'm already going on 61 and don't know how much time I have left.

 

[KPM]

So you could start by picking team names and a mascot, like for example, the GB-LFJ Jackals (straining to find some alliteration here) vs KPM-SG, aka "Goodman and Associates", or Myers and his Malicious Magpies. Looking forward to your decision. Oh and still waiting for that videoclip. Please hurry. I'm already going on 61 and don't know how much time I have left.

Oh! I pick "Terminators".....Saul, what do you think?

 

[KPM]

So does this amount to a "no response" to the question about Alan's unbalacing skills showing up in chi sau but not in fighting? If the question can't be answered then that's ok, but it would save time just to say it.
.

I attempted to answer your question to be the best of my abilities, given that I've never studied "forceflow." I even provided several video clips, none of which met your satisfaction. Now its your turn.

 

[SaulGoodman]

Oh! I pick "Terminators".....Saul, what do you think?

"The Goodman-Myers Conspiracy" gets my vote!

 

[SaulGoodman]

I reiterate again. The reason GUYB et al hide behind argument after argument in order to not provide sparring clips is simply because they don't want to receive the "constructive" criticism they are so quick to dish out.

So, in the absence of any death match VT tm clips supplied by the fanboys, I give you a clip that GUYB posted on KFM some time ago that he entitled " excellent ving tsun under pressure". I believe he expected people to be awe inspired by the content. They weren't and he threw his toys out of the pram during the thread.

Anyways, here's his introduction to the clip :

"Excellent maintenance of structure, frame, distance and movement in this clip, under unknown pressure in a potentially embarrassing situation. This is about the only clip I can find on the internet of ving tsun working in a way that doesn't look stiff, predetermined, or easily beaten by a freely moving fighter. Good clip, great ving tsun. Anyone seen better?"

 

[SaulGoodman]

Not sure if KPM and Geezer are familiar with it, but the theme tune to the "Benny Hill Show" is the perfect soundtrack to that clip

 

[Steve]

Not sure if KPM and Geezer are familiar with it, but the theme tune to the "Benny Hill Show" is the perfect soundtrack to that clip

Can you explain to a layman why that video is not good wing chun?

 

[SaulGoodman]

Do you think that clip is good? I see someone who is stiff, breathing heavy, running away all the time, chasing hands, trying to "do" wing chun like in drills ( thought the vt guys drills were abstract excercises). He's not controlling the center, he's not closing and controlling, he seems afraid to stay close and runs away from pressure rather than using it against the Hsing I guy, he has no close body/clinch skill, the second guy in particular, hands are way too low, do I need to continue? An entry level Thai boxer would have a field day..,,