Recent Video by Alan Orr

[SaulGoodman]

Jais clips show much better skills imo

 

[KPM]

Do you think that clip is good? I see someone who is stiff, breathing heavy, running away all the time, chasing hands, trying to "do" wing chun like in drills ( thought the vt guys drills were abstract excercises). He's not controlling the center, he's not closing and controlling, he seems afraid to stay close and runs away from pressure rather than using it against the Hsing I guy, he has no close body/clinch skill, the second guy in particular, hands are way too low, do I need to continue? An entry level Thai boxer would have a field day..,,

I like Jerry Yeung. I think he does good stuff. In his defense, these are clips of light sparring. No one is wearing protective equipment and no one is really trying to take the other guy out. I've said before, that this "back and forth" sparring type exchange is not what Wing Chun was designed for. I think Wing Chun was designed to close and finish the opponent. That's why Jerry ends up bouncing back and forth...he isn't actually closing in to finish the opponent.

So this is really not a very good example of Wing Chun sparring. This is in the same category of the clips I provided of Alan Orr moving from Chi Sau to Gor Sau to light sparring and back again. Neither Guy nor LFJ were impressed with those clips. And abolutely spot on as far as close body skills! If Jerry had that, then he could have closed in and controlled the opponent without punching him out and making everyone mad! But WSLVT evidently doesn't train those kinds of things. As I've said before, WSLVT is somewhat one-dimensional. And you see it here. All he can do is punch. No attempts to affect the opponent's balance or structure at all. Alan Orr or one of his better guys would have just bounced these Hsing I guys all over the place without actually hurting them.

And for the conspiracy theorists amongst us, I would never say something like "he threw his toys out of the pram during the thread." I'm not even sure what that means! I take it a "pram" is the same as a baby stroller?

 

[SaulGoodman]

Hey KPM, how messed up is this, we are disageeing!!

I still don't think this is "good" wing chun. The Jerry guy DOES have fast hands but is so twitchy the way he moves!, all he seems to do is punch and recycle through the center all the time. That's very basic Wc skill taught to beginners. If that's their idea of good, they can keep it. Lol at the toys and pram!

 

[guy b.]

I attempted to answer your question to be the best of my abilities, given that I've never studied "forceflow." I even provided several video clips, none of which met your satisfaction.

Ok, if you have never studied it then that was all you needed to say. I guess I will have to hope to catch Alan on a good day.

Now its your turn.

What do you want to ask me?

 

[guy b.]

I just did. Are you really that obtuse, or just being cute

You asked for a video clip. I thought you wanted to ask a question, sorry

 

[guy b.]

I still don't think this is "good" wing chun. The Jerry guy DOES have fast hands but is so twitchy the way he moves!, all he seems to do is punch and recycle through the center all the time. That's very basic Wc skill taught to beginners. If that's their idea of good, they can keep it

Ok, that's fine. We can now move on.

I don't think LFJ would agree that JY is a good representation of VT.

My purpose for posting the clip was to discuss the paucity of decent wing chun clips available. In those terms I would still say there are few if any better free movement wing chun clips freely available on youtube. In terms of all VT sparring clips then I agree, this is quite far from being the best available.

 

[KPM]

Ok, if you have never studied it then that was all you needed to say. I guess I will have to hope to catch Alan on a good day.

---I did say that. Multiple times!

What do you want to ask me?

---I've already asked two questions...several times now over the course of the last several pages of this thread. How about answering one of those?

 

[geezer]

My purpose for posting the clip was to discuss the paucity of decent wing chun clips available. In those terms I would still say there are few if any better free movement wing chun clips freely available on youtube. In terms of all VT sparring clips then I agree, this is quite far from being the best available.

OK, I'd agree that there is a scarcity of good WC sparring/fighting clips available on youtube. But then you go on to say that in terms of (WSL)VT that this is far from being the best available? Available where? Post one or two you like and let's see how people react. What's the harm? Jerry didn't suffer because some guys on a forum didn't much like his clip.

BTW didn't you say that you studied a bit with Jerry at one point? Perhaps you can shed a little light on that clip that Saul resurrected.

 

[SaulGoodman]

Getting bored waiting for the VT tm sparring clips. Here's GUYB from the thread the WSL vs Hsing I death match comes from. Oh the hypocrisy..,,

"Maybe when you produce a clip I will take you seriously.

Until then I imagine you are a little fat guy who trains occasionally all padded up.

I have actual experience in fighting (I think more than anyone else here in striking comps) and I know that gloves are an impediment to training for actual fighting. I came from gloves to this, not the other way around. Therfore i do not perceive soft sparring sessions in the gym with gloves to be the saviour of my ma integrity. I am already happy with that.

Post a credible clip and we can talk. Until then you are nothing and you stink of fear. I would smash you up standing I think. And I would break you to bits on the ground."

Internet tough guy..,

 

[Dirty Dog]

Attention All Users:

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[LFJ]

---I've already asked two questions...several times now over the course of the last several pages of this thread. How about answering one of those?

And you've been answered on the same question over the course of several threads! Literally every thread we get into with you, it ends up being the same question. "Why don't we see laap-sau cycles working well in free fighting?" You ignore the answer every time in order to troll some more.

You have so much time to make several more posts but don't bother to look at that video from the taan-sau thread? You ignored it then just to continue pushing controversy.

In the video below there is a bit of light sparring. Just a bit, but it wasn't made for you. You will not see chi-sau or laap-sau drills because they aren't directly applicable "techniques", as you've been told a thousand times. What you will see is good movement and line work, VT elbow if you know what you're looking at.

 

[LFJ]

Now, regardless of your opinion on the above video, whether it's to anyone's satisfaction or not, it has no bearing on whether or not Alan's force flow bridge techniques have ever shown up in his team's fights, as he says they should and do. If anyone can point to a timestamp that'd be great.

 

[geezer]

Until then I imagine you are a little fat guy who trains occasionally all padded up.

...er, actually that would be me you are talking about. ...Well, not exactly fat, but I could sure drop a good twenty pounds. And I am a bit on the small side at 5' 8". And when I spar we either go real light or I wear a face mask and typically use"UFC" gloves but I've also got some with more padding. I do WC pretty much as a hobby, so that suits me fine. On the other hand, if you are out there really testing your stuff, Saul, you've got my total respect. As far as Guy goes, who knows?

Yeah, I thought I'd lay this out as a matter of "full disclosure". I'm not ashamed of being an ordinary guy. But there's plenty of shame in being a phony, hypocritical poseur. Not that that would apply to anybody on this forum.

 

[Tames D]

This thread must be VT's version of ground hog day. (if you know what I mean)

 

[SaulGoodman]

Ooooops, my primary school level of quotation usage has caused a major misinterpretation of my post. After my statement "oh the hypocrisy", it's all GUYB text from the KFM thread related to the "sparring" clip. I only chip in again at the end with "internet tough guy". Unlike this guy I would never issue challenges via a keyboard, I gave up playing in the sandbox a LONG time ago. Tbh I thought it would be informative to the participants (and lurkers) of this thread to see just how hypocritical some people can be.

 

[KPM]

And you've been answered on the same question over the course of several threads! Literally every thread we get into with you, it ends up being the same question. "Why don't we see laap-sau cycles working well in free fighting?" You ignore the answer every time in order to troll some more.

----Not really. The answer has never been very good. And most recently I asked how it RELATES to sparring. It does relate, does it not? Otherwise, why train it? And I have answer the same question multiple times over several threads myself.


You have so much time to make several more posts but don't bother to look at that video from the taan-sau thread? You ignored it then just to continue pushing controversy.

----It would have been major effort for me to go back and find that thread and then read through multiple pages to find the post you are talking about. It would have been much easier for you to just search for it on youtube again (since you know what you are looking for) and repost it. But you didn't. You'd rather argue on and on.


In the video below there is a bit of light sparring. Just a bit, but it wasn't made for you. You will not see chi-sau or laap-sau drills because they aren't directly applicable "techniques", as you've been told a thousand times. What you will see is good movement and line work, VT elbow if you know what you're looking at.

---Pretty good compilation clip. Light sparring...yes. PB's partner wasn't really giving him much resistance in the short sections we can see. But I will say, that PB himself light-sparring looks very similar to PB doing his Chi Sau/Lop Sau training. Now how hard was that LFJ? Wouldn't it have been easier to do that right from the "restart" of this thread rather than argue and obfuscate for 3 pages?

---But thanks for the clip. Probably the most we can expect to see. I'm out!

 

[guy b.]

Getting bored waiting for the VT tm sparring clips. Here's GUYB from the thread the WSL vs Hsing I death match comes from. Oh the hypocrisy..,,

"Maybe when you produce a clip I will take you seriously.

Until then I imagine you are a little fat guy who trains occasionally all padded up.

I have actual experience in fighting (I think more than anyone else here in striking comps) and I know that gloves are an impediment to training for actual fighting. I came from gloves to this, not the other way around. Therfore i do not perceive soft sparring sessions in the gym with gloves to be the saviour of my ma integrity. I am already happy with that.

Post a credible clip and we can talk. Until then you are nothing and you stink of fear. I would smash you up standing I think. And I would break you to bits on the ground."

Internet tough guy..,

Are you Frost? This would explain your animosity.

Lol at taking the above post seriously

 

[guy b.]

Now, regardless of your opinion on the above video, whether it's to anyone's satisfaction or not, it has no bearing on whether or not Alan's force flow bridge techniques have ever shown up in his team's fights, as he says they should and do. If anyone can point to a timestamp that'd be great.

I think KPM has said that he doesn't know anything about force flow. With Alan not posting I think that leaves nobody who does know, unless maybe the guy who trains with Alan in NZ could answer? Or Alan re-appears.

 

[guy b.]

Not really. The answer has never been very good. And most recently I asked how it RELATES to sparring. It does relate, does it not? Otherwise, why train it? And I have answer the same question multiple times over several threads myself.

This has been answered. What didn't you like about the reply?

I will say, that PB himself light-sparring looks very similar to PB doing his Chi Sau/Lop Sau training.

Really, you think?

 

[guy b.]

Available where?

Available to people who are serious, interested and who are not trolling.