Recent Video by Alan Orr

[KPM]

Plus, Jai calls himself a "Wing Chun/Freestyle MA guy" in the description.

KPM should be able to recognize that he was not using VT at all in those clips. He was doing whatever his "Freestyle MA" is. Pretty sure most beginners would be able to tell that much.
.

Ok then. Here are some videos that state clearly "Wing Chun vs. X" and say nothing about "MMA."

Please explain to us all how the sparring we see above relates to the training in Chi Sau/Lop Sau we see in this video:

In the Chi Sau thread Guy wrote:
It trains your punch in terms of elbow behavior, unthinking habits and correct reactions. It trains the body and power chain; correct structure and generation of force.

Chi sau is error correction. like the dummy. Sparing and fighting is testing - this is where errors become visible.
There is a large element of movement, structure, and force generation training in poon sau and chi sau. Errors in these elements exposed during testing is part of what chi sau corrects. The arm bridges utilised in chi sau are not literal techniques to be used in fighting. They are training wheels to allow you to get your balance before trying again to ride the bike without.

That's a good answer. But can you point out how all that is related to what we are seeing in the sparring videos?

And if these sparring videos are not representative of WSLVT, please post some that are.

 

[guy b.]

if these sparring videos are not representative of WSLVT, please post some

Those clips look like messing around with a boxing guard and movement. I don't know Jai Harman and you would need to ask him if these constitute good representations of his wing chun. For you I think he might say yes.

 

[geezer]

What does it look like then? (VT I mean)

I'd like to see LFJ or Guy B put up some videos of their VT being used in a "fight" (I assume that would actually be sparring with heavy contact?) against competant representatives of a boxing/mma approach. So far about the only videos that purport to show WC/VT/WT being used successfully in this kind of situation come from Alan Orr's guys ....and then everybody gripes that it doesn't look like WC/VT/WT.

Fair enough. So LFJ and Guy, can you post something better, please? Heck Guy has told us that he goes at it bare knuckle every week or two. That totally tops anything I do. Even if the video doesn't look great, he'd have my total respect if he posted that. Honestly!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Drills train positions, power chain, habits which are used in fighting. Specific and direct applications are not trained in drills.

Let's compare WC with Taiji.

- WC has forms, Chi Shou, and fight.
- Taiji has form, push hand, and ?

From WC Chi Shou to fight, or from Taiji push hand to fight, something is missing. IMO, the missing part is the "fighting skill drills". This is why WC fight or Taiji fight doesn't look like training. If you don't drill your "left Tang Shou, right face punch" 10,000 times, there is no way that you can just suddenly use it in fighting.

 

[KPM]

Those clips look like messing around with a boxing guard and movement. I don't know Jai Harman and you would need to ask him if these constitute good representations of his wing chun. For you I think he might say yes.

Again, please post some videos that you think are representative of WSLVT sparring so we can compare.

 

[SaulGoodman]

I'd like to see LFJ or Guy B put up some videos of their VT being used in a "fight" (I assume that would actually be sparring with heavy contact?) against competant representatives of a boxing/mma approach. So far about the only videos that purport to show WC/VT/WT being used successfully in this kind of situation come from Alan Orr's guys ....and then everybody gripes that it doesn't look like WC/VT/WT.

Fair enough. So LFJ and Guy, can you post something better, please? Heck Guy has told us that he goes at it bare knuckle every week or two. That totally tops anything I do. Even if the video doesn't look great, he'd have my total respect if he posted that. Honestly!

Hope you're ready for a LOOOONG wait Geezer. These guys have been called out many times to show their superior approach on video and always refuse stating that they don't have to post videos to justify their (normally) derogatory views on OTHER people's videos.
After all, it's a forum right? They're allowed their opinions... The VT tm fanboys advice to people who get upset when their videos get ripped apart would be "don't post videos if you don't want criticism". Which is EXACTLY why they never have or will post any clips of them using their VT tm in an alive fashion. I guarantee if either posted a sparring clip, the majority here would be like "are they kidding?"....

 

[guy b.]

Let's compare WC with Taiji.

- WC has forms, Chi Shou, and fight.
- Taiji has form, push hand, and ?

From WC Chi Shou to fight, or from Taiji push hand to fight, something is missing. IMO, the missing part is the "fighting skill drills". This is why WC fight or Taiji fight doesn't look like training. If you don't drill your "left Tang Shou, right face punch" 10,000 times, there is no way that you can just suddenly use it in fighting.

Thanks, I will consider your advice

 

[guy b.]

Again, please post some videos that you think are representative of WSLVT sparring so we can compare.

I'm sorry, I don't have any available.

 

[guy b.]

I'd like to see LFJ or Guy B put up some videos of their VT being used in a "fight"

I think any request would need to appear honest before it was considered seriously. Maybe some unbiased requests to moderators would help? Maybe less trolling. Who knows?

 

[KPM]

I'm sorry, I don't have any available.

Now wait a minute. Previously you guys boasted that 1000's....yes 1000's!....of people had switched from "regular" Wing Chun to WSLVT and were sold on it. Now you are saying that NONE of those 1000's of people have posted any sparring videos showing how much they have learned? Really???

 

[SaulGoodman]

Yeah, really

 

[wckf92]

1000's....yes 1000's!....of people had switched from "regular" Wing Chun to WSLVT and were sold on it.

Isn't "regular" meant as "wrong" or "incorrect" or "incoherent"? Hahaha

 

[guy b.]

Now wait a minute. Previously you guys boasted that 1000's....yes 1000's!....of people had switched from "regular" Wing Chun to WSLVT and were sold on it. Now you are saying that NONE of those 1000's of people have posted any sparring videos showing how much they have learned? Really???

Lots of people have sparring videos and of course these are shared freely

 

[KPM]

Lots of people have sparring videos and of course these are shared freely

But you don't know of any that are good examples of WSLVT???? How about you do us a favor and search on youtube for all of these videos from "lots of people" (assuming you mean WSLVT people, because that was who were talking about) and select a few that you think are a good example of WSLVT sparring. That shouldn't be too hard, should it?

 

[SaulGoodman]

But you don't know of any that are good examples of WSLVT???? How about you do us a favor and search on youtube for all of these videos from "lots of people" (assuming you mean WSLVT people, because that was who were talking about) and select a few that you think are a good example of WSLVT sparring. That shouldn't be too hard, should it?

These guys are too funny. When pressed for sparring clips they point to clips of other VT tm guys and when you ask them why they can't show clips of themselves they say "we do the same stuff so we don't need to"... Don't push too hard KPM otherwise GUYB will unleash the hilarious "sparring" clip of the WSLVT tm guy sparring the Hsing I master. Iirc he posted it a while back on KFM and felt it was the best thing since sliced bread. It, umm, wasnt...

 

[drop bear]

You don't fight the way your train, nor train the way you fight? Doesn't sound very efficient to me!

Ever used a speed ball?

 

[SaulGoodman]

Not the ol speed ball/skipping rope analogy, again...

 

[Steve]

Ever used a speed ball?

I bet I could chain punch the **** out of that speed bag.

 

[geezer]

I think any request would need to appear honest before it was considered seriously. Maybe some unbiased requests to moderators would help? Maybe less trolling. Who knows?

Does that mean, "No, there aren't any good PB-WSL-VT sparring clips out there to recommend"? ....Darn.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ever used a speed ball?

When you hit a speed ball, you may only think about punching on your opponent's face. You may ignore that he still has 2 arms that can be near his head and you have to deal with at the same time. If you want to train as WC and fight as WC, the speed ball is not the best training tool.

IMO, the difference between boxing and WC (or CMA in general) is in

- boxing, you punch your opponent's face when his face is open. You "wait" for your opponent to open up.
- WC (or CMA in general), you use your Tang Shou (or Fu Shou, Pai Shou, Lap Shou, ...) to move his arm away from his head, you then punch his face. You "make" your opponent to open up.