Receiving Black Belt in multiple arts

[Kempojujutsu]

Here is a question that I have been pondering. Let say someone has a black belt in style A and they decide to study Martial Art B which is similar (kata's /forms are different) Would it take someone one who already has a black belt the same amount of time to receive a black belt in Style B. As it would someone just starting out in the Martial arts. I believe someone could study a second art and it could take half or less the time. Now I know there are different variables to each art. The amount of training time is the most deciding factor. But your average martial artist would trains 2-3 days in a dojo and does maybe sometime at home.

 

[tonbo]

Well, you probably could argue that you could fly through material and get your belt quicker than a total newbie. However, would you want to?

We get people who are Black belts in other styles that come in to take Kenpo from our school from time to time. We tell them all the same thing: you will pick the material up quicker than someone who has had no training, but it will still take a fair amount of time to get to Black in this style.

It's just the way it works out. If you want to truly train in the art, you should be willing to put in the time to get quality out of it, not just a new Black rank.

Just my opinion.

Peace--

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

It depends: Are you talking about switching from Tang Soo Do to Tae Kwon Do? A talented, hard working indiviual could do it in a year. Are you talking about switching from Tae Kwon Do to Kenpo? Same individual would probably take 5 years. Or are you talking about switching from Kenpo to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu where it will probably take a shmoe like me at least 10 years.

 

[bdparsons]

primarily on how similar the arts are. Are they basically different versions of the same art? Or are they based on totally different concepts and principles? My recommendation would actually be to venture into an art that is not similar to the one you hold rank in. Where's the fun in going through essentially the same thing, just arranged differently?

Either way, don't set a time frame. In fact, setting a time frame could do you more harm than good. There will be times when you greatly appreciate what your previous art taught you and other times when you'll be amazed at the differences your new art is teaching you. Enjoy the journey, no matter how long it takes.

Respects,
Bill

 

[A.R.K.]

If the disciplines are vastly different i.e. a 'kicking' discipline vs a ground fighting discipline I would see the time eliments being normal.

However, you stated similar disciplines with the biggest differences being in forms etc. If the individual shows proficiency in the new discipline and meets the necessary requirments I see no reason to hold them back in any way. No legitimate reason.

:asian:

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Some of the arts I was talking about are Shotokan karate, Shorin Ryu, Okinawan Kempo all use Pinan Kata's and Nahanchi kata's up to Black belt. Some of the kata's have minor differences. Or Goju ryu, Isshin ryu, and Uechi ryu. I am not as fimilar with but use all of the goju ryu kata's. Could it be possible to acheive rank in one of these arts having study a very similar art in less time. The arts would have to be very close and not two completly different arts for some one to do this.
Bob:asian:

 

[Turner]

If the arts are that similar, I believe that it would take less than a year.

I switched from Goju-ryu Karate to Tang Soo Do in which the forms were very similar except for the brown/red belt levels. Since they were so similar I was allowed (ok, yelled at and forced) to wear the black belt and just learn forms associated with the lower belts and clean up some of the minor stance variations.

I've found this to be the case with most schools I've attended. I enter and don't tell them my previously earned ranks, hoping to start at white belt but most see I have a little bit of skill and wind up requiring that I wear the black belt.

Now, if you cross train from Kenpo to BJJ like I did... expect to spend a lot of time wearing a white belt because you'll be so clueless! Even if you have experience with some form of Jujitsu...

Doug

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by Turner
If the arts are that similar, I believe that it would take less than a year.

I switched from Goju-ryu Karate to Tang Soo Do in which the forms were very similar except for the brown/red belt levels. Since they were so similar I was allowed (ok, yelled at and forced) to wear the black belt and just learn forms associated with the lower belts and clean up some of the minor stance variations.

I've found this to be the case with most schools I've attended. I enter and don't tell them my previously earned ranks, hoping to start at white belt but most see I have a little bit of skill and wind up requiring that I wear the black belt.

Now, if you cross train from Kenpo to BJJ like I did... expect to spend a lot of time wearing a white belt because you'll be so clueless! Even if you have experience with some form of Jujitsu...

Doug

Had one of my Black belts go to BJJ school the other night for his 1st class. He has been grappling for about 2 years plus, any way. He was so far ahead of the White belts in that class. He said the instructor spend most of the time with his intermediate class, and that he show the class or help them out with there techniques. Yes I agree with that if the arts are similar it should not take as long to earn an advance rank or black belt rank. Now if you are talking about two competely different arts ie TKD and aikido then yes I would say you are on the 5 year plan or better.
Bob :asian:

 

[kkbb]

In my dojo... students form other systems are encouraged to join us. They can be moved as quickly through the system as possible, upto their current rank in their old system. This movement will depend on them. They still have to perform all aspects of our system as they learn at, atleast at the belt level they are working for. They can excel as long as all is "perportional."

 

[Kempojujutsu]

They say Hapkido comes from Aikijujutsu. So If you had a Black Belt in Aikijujutsu could you claim rank in Hapkido, or vise verse?
Bob :asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
It depends: Are you talking about switching from Tang Soo Do to Tae Kwon Do? A talented, hard working indiviual could do it in a year. Are you talking about switching from Tae Kwon Do to Kenpo? Same individual would probably take 5 years. Or are you talking about switching from Kenpo to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu where it will probably take a shmoe like me at least 10 years.

Amen to that.

 

[spook mma]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu
They say Hapkido comes from Aikijujutsu. So If you had a Black Belt in Aikijujutsu could you claim rank in Hapkido, or vise verse?
Bob :asian:

you wouldn't be able to claim rank, but how long do you think it would take to earn a black belt in hapkido if you were ranked in aikijujutsu? similarly, how about a brown belt in bjj? how long to achieve a black belt in judo?

i read somewhere that a black belt in judo has to compete as a purple (maybe brown???) belt in bjj tournaments. does anyone know if there is truth to this?

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by spook mma
you wouldn't be able to claim rank, but how long do you think it would take to earn a black belt in hapkido if you were ranked in aikijujutsu? similarly, how about a brown belt in bjj? how long to achieve a black belt in judo?

i read somewhere that a black belt in judo has to compete as a purple (maybe brown???) belt in bjj tournaments. does anyone know if there is truth to this?

I doubt it's true, especially in the higher level tournaments.

The only place where I can see that is some deranged BJJ fanatic.

 

[dearnis.com]

i read somewhere that a black belt in judo has to compete as a purple (maybe brown???) belt in bjj tournaments. does anyone know if there is truth to this?

I dont know, and I dont train BJJ, BUT I could see this. The issue is time in; BJJ just takes a crazy long time to promote people. Think about it, students are deemed competent to teach at blue belt (as in with their own program). Is that bad? Maybe not after 3-4 years in, but that is the time frame for balck belt in many arts. See how comparing the two is not really accurate.

It ties into the bigger thrread as well; some systems want 3-4 years to shodan, some want 5-6, and some are looking around 10. Regardless of the belt color someone w/10 quality years WILL be ahead of someone w/ only 4-5.

And I am thinking in terms of legit training, not belt mills.

 

[KenpoDragon]

I personally trained in Kenpo and Kali at the same time, 6 days a week 4 hours a day(dojo time) not including home practice. So I do believe if you train in martial arts already it is easier to learn a similar style, to the one that you've already trained in. But ultimately it comes down to your commitment level. I don't believe ANYONE should be given a Black Belt on prior knowledge. Nor do I believe that a real Black Belt should be able to be achieved in any less than 5 years. But this is just my opinion.

:asian:

 

[Shinzu]

i would say if the arts are similar than it wouldnt take as long. but if they are different you would need to start from scratch.

when i went from TSD to Kung Fu i needed to start over. the basics i knew but the rest was different.

 

[A.R.K.]

Nor do I believe that a real Black Belt should be able to be achieved in any less than 5 years. But this is just my opinion

Kempodragon,

I understand where you are coming from. But shouldn't alot be placed on one's abilities? There are those that readily absorb information and can demonstrate proficency. I have seen some arts hold an individual back that was more than ready for advancement because of the almighty $. They seem to feel the longer one is kept at a particular rank, the longer they will stay in training and the longer they keep paying the monthly tuition.

Just a thought...

:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

I think it depends on the individual systems and the schools as well as the simiarities. And then the level of the student who is presubably already blackbelt level.

I've started over many times. I don't have a problem at all training somewhere and putting on a whitebelt. Recently I wore a whitebelt in BJJ for 3.5 years.

Each system elevates my "martial individuality" in someway and I know of a few systems that I could pass the blackbelt test.

But that would not mean that I understood the essance of the art, but as far as technique is considered may pass the test.:asian:

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

I started out in 1990 in EPAK and trained for 3 years until my instructor moved away. The only other system around was a military instructor teaching US Armed Forces Karate wich was nothing but America Karate and I was promoted to 1st BLK by him (John Simeone 6th degree BB Ft Polk, LA) within a year and half. I have since gone back to EPAK and have been training under Robert Ray in Atlanta GA for the past two years and will be testing for my 1st BLK next month. So, I say it depends on the depth of knowledge and skill required to make BLK in that particular system. As we all know, the requirments for 1st BLK is different between systems and for that matter schools too.

:asian:

 

[Rick Tsubota]

I earned dan rank in three different styles of Karate but had to start at zero each time I started at a new school even though they are all karate.