Ramsay Dewey and karate "blocks"

[drop bear]

I'm not sure I understand the question. What I always did was train my guys with every method of blocking and evading that I knew, methods that were handed down from Professional Fighters of note.

I'd let them decide which was best for them by fighting and drilling. That teaches you pretty quickly.

Yeah but for people who train karate blocks and then say they are really grab defences or something. It means at some point karate guts were not blocking anything.

 

[Buka]

Yeah but for people who train karate blocks and then say they are really grab defences or something. It means at some point karate guts were not blocking anything.

I always loved folks who didn't block anything. So much fun to compete against!

 

[Martial D]

Yeah but for people who train karate blocks and then say they are really grab defences or something. It means at some point karate guts were not blocking anything.

To be fair, 'blocking' in the sense that you swing your arm to knock away a punch with your forearm really only leads to a bruised face most of the time.

 

[letsplaygames]

While these committed to karate may work hard and have great technical skills, I think most do NOT have a full grasp of hikite, tuite (qin na in the Chinese systems) and the idea of aggressive "attacking blocks," that target tendons, much less of pressure points. I do not fault them for this as one doesn't know what one doesn't know. It had been many years in mainstream karate that such concepts were unknown, being lost over the years of sport karate and teachers passing down their limited knowledge, although there are numerous exceptions to this. Only if the practitioner has had the idea that more existed and took the effort to delve into these things themselves, or found a knowledgable sensei would they get the full picture.

There is a lot to what you wrote..

Recently, Ive been training at a Dojo that is very kata orientated. (I’m a Sandan in my old style) The sensei is a Rokudan and is very knowledgable on the style... but lacks skill and knowledge in practical bunkai... kumite skills/prowess seems to be there..(I think... not sure... until I sparr against that person I will not know for certain)

The sensei admits on their short comings on practical karate/bunkai/self defense... and wants to train more of it... seems to be using me as a catalyst for change!

Last night I got “Why hasn’t anyone taught us this!” From Dans no less...after showing them some joint locks from a kata they were doing.

At one point... they were questioning a mae kaketo geri done with kekomi (a front thrust kick done with the heel) I was demonstrating it usage by attacking the sternum with hikite and without.. also showed attacking the thigh breaking my opponents stance with the kick.

They thought I was doing a front snap kick wrong.... huh? what? After explaining that all karate has a front thrust kick! I got “We only have a front snap kick”. Which I replied “ ok... do the keketo geri with keage” (do the heel kick with snapping technique.) I got the reply. “No you only do a mae geri keage with the ball of the foot”.). .

these are dans... yikes!
Normally... I would have bolted long ago, but the sensei understands the wrongs done by the previous sensei, and they all are very respectful, honest and admit they don’t know bunkai or self defense. Many after I show them bunkai (throws, joint locks, etc ) get mad at the fact they have been practicing for decades and no one has shown them practical bunkai.... I’m talking basic stuff... when I showed them how to use Gedan Bari to break both hands grabbed by an opponent... many went... “what was that!!!!?”

A part of me says.. they own their ignorance, don’t blame the sensei... or the sensei before. Imo ..., They got what they got, because they equated learning kata as prowess.

Imo if someone is serious about their karate, their eyes should be wide open, and their cup empty, (mind is!)

Karate prowess should be as functional as possible.

Yes many don’t know what they don’t know though...

 

[letsplaygames]

Z

 

[isshinryuronin]

Imo if someone is serious about their karate, their eyes should be wide open, and their cup empty

When I put on my cup, it is anything but empty!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Blocks can be strikes, strikes can be blocks. They can also be parries, traps, deflections, evasions, and just about anything else you can think of. Applications vary wildly, and many can be effective if practiced correctly and used in the proper context at the appropriate time.

However, if a goon lugs a haymaker at me with his right hand, I will most likely step in, throw up a strong block with my left, and jet off his punkin head with my right. It's a simple kihon-based defense, but for untrained punks, it is most likely going to be quite effective.

We have spent many a happy hour in the dojo exploring, for example, various ways to escape hand and lapel grabs. One of the most effective responses is still the simplest; punch the snot out the person who grabs you with whatever limb is free. Simple is good, I like simple. That doesn't make it the most appropriate response in all circumstances, and that is why one should try to absorb many techniques that can be done in place of a simple block, punch, kick response to attack.

One of my favorite of the 'Codes of Karate' is "A person's unbalance is the same as a weight." If I can turn a block, for example, into a parry-and-grab, it only takes about an inch of movement to get them off balance. As they fight to regain their balance, in that brief moment, I strike. So much fun.

 

[Graywalker]

How did I miss this thread. I will comment later on what the various ideologies are concerning blocks in our system.

Working now...

 

[Koryuhoka]

So I quite enjoy the YouTube videos of Shanghai-based MMA coach Ramsay Dewey.

Recently he posted a series of videos about karate blocking, starting with how they aren't actually blocks, followed by one about offensive applications of the same movements. The latter is reminiscent of a similar series on KarateCulture about applications of these "blocks". Now while I feel like these applications are perfectly valid, they don't fully explain why these movements were called "blocks" in the first place if they weren't used to block attacks.

As an analogy, consider tennis shoes. Sure you can wear them for running or play basketball as well as for tennis, but if you were to tell me they were never used for tennis, I'd feel further explanation were in order. It just doesn't satisfy Occam's Razor, and I suspect the only reason we don't pick up on the cognitive dissonance is that MMA has primed us to dismiss TMA in general as irrational.

My theory is that karate blocks are indeed blocks, just not blocks against punches. Think about it: karate was developed long before the arrival of western guns, on an island full of poor fishermen. According to the Karate Nerd, the kobudo oar was commonly trained in tandem with empty-handed karate. So maybe karate blocks are optimized for blocking an opponent wielding a kobudo, or similar bludgeon weapon.

Against such an attack, it makes sense to use traditional blocks. A bludgeon is easier to anticipate but harder to evade than punches, and extending your arm forward will arrest the movement earlier in its arc, before it's acquired dangerous momentum. It also explains the use of knife-hand blocks, to grasp the weapon and try to wrest control. It's not that karate is useless in combat, it's that it's optimized for a scenario that occurs much less frequently.

If this theory is correct, then the use of blocks for old-school karate is actually quite akin to how traditional European sword fighting, where rapiers were slow and heavy enough (think Princess Bride in slow motion) that the left arm wrapped in one's cloak could be used to intercept attacks.

What do folks think - does this theory hold water?

The word block does not exist in Okinawan Karate terminology. The term used is UKE, which means "receive". In order for you to defend from an attack, you take hold of, and control the offending appendage. This is why a "block" has 2 movements. The supporting hand moves first, to intercept the attack. This is called "parry". The prominent hand completes the movement to destroy the attack.

Regarding the origin of Karate, I tend to believe it has roots in the preservation of the Royal Families of Okinawa. The goal was to defend the kingdom, so most of karate was developed by the Royal Bodyguards. Many were part of the Aristocracy, which is NOT like today's Western aristocracy. They were residents of the Castles. Look at the Shito Ryu patch. It has a red emblem. That is the Crest of the 4 Families who defended the Chibana Castle. Mabuni is one of those families. Oshiro and Hokama are also 2 of the families and the 4th one escapes me at the moment.

Your theory would hold water if the "blocking" system was as you believe. But it is not. The word "block" does not exist in karate, nor even in Chinese arts. It is good though, that you are cross referencing information.