Anyone Up for Sharing Bunkai?

[dancingalone]

Just a quick question. Is this a throw at the beginning of the kata or the end? I'm thinking that the strike you are describing is a hammerfist in our kata followed by the shita tsuki. However, there is a backfist in the opening sequence as well. Both can end of with neck cranks.

I'm referring to the sequences from 28-30 seconds of the Higaonna performance here.

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[K-man]

Originally Posted by dancingalone.
Here is a basic application. I've seen Goju people from virtually every lineage teach this one, so it's fairly universal. In reference to the uraken performed as you turn to the back and then a chudan level under cut punch...

Whip your forearm through your opponent's upper guard. This is a hard style application where strength and speed is important. Strike at temple or bridge of nose with the knuckles as you complete penetrating his guard. Using the striking arm/fist, grab the hair of the opponent and pull him down and towards you. Strike him with a short uppercut or a short reverse thrust punch. Finish with a neck throw.

In all Goju styles I have seen the initial strike is tettsui or hammer-fist. That's not to say that the type of strike cannot involve the knuckles because to my understanding of kata any move can be changed to accommodate the situation. In the Jundokan bunkai version the strike to the head is preceded by a downward sweep of the other hand that clears the way to strike to the temple or top of the head (Tento GV24 or Tendo GV22). Now if the attacker manages to block the strike, the hand delivering the strike can trap and pull the arm down, turning the attacker to expose the floating ribs (Sp21 or L13), the target of the shita tsuki. (If the attacker doesn't block then you grab the top of the head and continue as before.) This should bring the attacker's head down allowing the strike to the back of the neck GB20. If you need to continue then there is the haito uchi to the neck or kidney. From this position the arm can slide around the neck and drawing back into neko (cat stance) takes the attacker's centre while the strangle takes effect. We play around with variations of this depending on the position you find yourself in.
Saifa has some great moves. :asian:

 

[dancingalone]

In all Goju styles I have seen the initial strike is tettsui or hammer-fist. That's not to say that the type of strike cannot involve the knuckles because to my understanding of kata any move can be changed to accommodate the situation.

It's adapted based on target. Arguably if you're aiming for the temple, I would prefer uraken with the knuckles over tettsui.

In the Jundokan bunkai version the strike to the head is preceded by a downward sweep of the other hand that clears the way to strike to the temple or top of the head

We work this one too. It dovetails well with the prior movements and applications in the preceding parts of Saifa.

This might make a good new topic however. Should we only practice 'efficient' bunkai, those that most people with a reasonable amount of strength and athletic ability can pull off? I have a heavy physical conditioning component in my classes and over time, most of my students are noticeably strong, especially the guys. As a result, from time to time, I choose to practice movements that really are effective only if one has developed the physical strength and the arm conditioning to apply them. The application I cited is one such example. It's devastating since the guard break can be enough by itself to knock the opponent senseless all by itself if he is inexperienced enough to keep his arms too close to his head.

 

[K-man]

It's adapted based on target. Arguably if you're aiming for the temple, I would prefer uraken with the knuckles over tettsui.


We work this one too. It dovetails well with the prior movements and applications in the preceding parts of Saifa.

This might make a good new topic however. Should we only practice 'efficient' bunkai, those that most people with a reasonable amount of strength and athletic ability can pull off? I have a heavy physical conditioning component in my classes and over time, most of my students are noticeably strong, especially the guys. As a result, from time to time, I choose to practice movements that really are effective only if one has developed the physical strength and the arm conditioning to apply them. The application I cited is one such example. It's devastating since the guard break can be enough by itself to knock the opponent senseless all by itself if he is inexperienced enough to keep his arms too close to his head.

Agree totally with the first comment. Takes into account the 'soft to hard' & 'hard to soft' concept.
As for the second. Fortunately I too have sufficient strength to muscle through if required. However as I get older I like to think I'm getting smarter. Plus, the aikido helps with softness, redirection, good bio-mechanics, use of opponent's strength and more. I now prefer the more clinical approach. It uses much less energy for a start. I now target PPs, not that you always hit them on a moving target but once you get beyond sport sparring into the range that karate was designed for, the targets are easier to get and the throws and holds come into play. I don't know if you,ve ever seen Evan Pantazi but he is a smaller guy who is very quick and very accurate.
To my mind kata is a blueprint to demolish an opponent in the easiest most effective way. :asian:

 

[dancingalone]

I now target PPs, not that you always hit them on a moving target but once you get beyond sport sparring into the range that karate was designed for, the targets are easier to get and the throws and holds come into play. I don't know if you,ve ever seen Evan Pantazi but he is a smaller guy who is very quick and very accurate.
To my mind kata is a blueprint to demolish an opponent in the easiest most effective way. :asian:

No, I've never seen Mr. Pantazi. I've seen his promotional ads though. I am sure he is a fine martial artist.

Kyusho study isn't something I've delved into much. I still regret not learning acupuncture from my sensei when he offered to teach it to me. He hinted it would make my karate better, but alas I was young and rash then. Now it would be difficult since we live in different states from each other.

 

[Haze]

Here's a nice clip of Saifa (Goju)

 

[Ojisan]

As long as we are talking Saifa, in the first sequence .....
If you start from the bad guy directly in front with a lapel grab (this just simplifies the explanation as his hands are busy) you reach out and grab his left ear (or hair)with your right hand and push your left thumb into his right eye, pull with your right, push with your left and step out 45% to your right.

The bad guy will either disengage or will be pulled off balance. Keeping your hands on his head, slip your left hand down to his jaw and your right hand to cup the back of his head. Bring his head down to your right hip.

As you bring your left foot up to your right, snap his head across your belt line while keeping downward pressure on his head (to prevent his being able to turn his body with his head).

If you don't feel the crunch of the neck break, reverse the head turn as you drop back into shiko dachi.

That should do it.

FWIW

 

[K-man]

As long as we are talking Saifa, in the first sequence .....
If you start from the bad guy directly in front with a lapel grab (this just simplifies the explanation as his hands are busy) you reach out and grab his left ear (or hair)with your right hand and push your left thumb into his right eye, pull with your right, push with your left and step out 45% to your right.

The bad guy will either disengage or will be pulled off balance. Keeping your hands on his head, slip your left hand down to his jaw and your right hand to cup the back of his head. Bring his head down to your right hip.

As you bring your left foot up to your right, snap his head across your belt line while keeping downward pressure on his head (to prevent his being able to turn his body with his head).

If you don't feel the crunch of the neck break, reverse the head turn as you drop back into shiko dachi.

That should do it.

FWIW

I agree with the head pull. I teach a similar move but from a moving attack rather than a stationary lapel grab. The next part of the kata is nominally a backfist strike but if you look at the position you have described, the attacker is in a perfect position for an elbow into the back. :asian:

 

[Ojisan]

I used the lapel grab to simplify the set up. It is easier to apply to a body in motion but harder to describe.

I see the elbow strike to the back. If I am doing a neck crank in one direction, I like to reverse the direction as the bad guy's body tries to keep up with the motion. Thus the suggestion of pushing his head back from whence it came.

The people I work out with tend to get locked in to what they have been shown as "what this move is". I like to play around with generic movement and see where it leads.