Omar B
Senior Master
That exclamation and capitals sure makes your point. But I still believe that however loud the old man may have gotten, the police siren and flashing lights was more of a disturbance.
Racist Cop or Combative Professor?
- Thread starter Archangel M
- Start date
That exclamation and capitals sure makes your point. But I still believe that however loud the old man may have gotten, the police siren and flashing lights was more of a disturbance.
OP
OP
Archangel M
Senior Master
Theres a legitimate purpose behind lights and sirens dude.
CoryKS
Senior Master
The bottom line is that Gates, through his own racist narrative and his self-regard for his marginal celebrity status, tried to establish dominance on a police officer who was responding to a routine call. He failed in the short-term, resulting in his arrest. He may have succeeded in the longer term, having brought national attention to himself and secured the apology of his personal friend the governor and also the sympathy of another influential friend, the president. Looking at this from a still longer term perspective, it will be interesting to see what kind of fallout results from this. The police are fuming about Obama's remarks, the officer is considering a defamation of character suit, and a lot of people who are usually sympathetic to racial injustice are rolling their eyes and saying "give me a ****ing break." I'm actually surprised by the amount of pushback there has been on this, and I think it's possible that this may be an historical event in the sense that more people begin to cast a cynical eye to charges which up to now have seemed "truthy".
In any case, Gates is clearly a man who is ruled by his emotions and has no claim to the label of "intellectual". He is, quite frankly, a braying jackass.
In any case, Gates is clearly a man who is ruled by his emotions and has no claim to the label of "intellectual". He is, quite frankly, a braying jackass.
Yeah, except that if these guys were sharp, they didn't have said lights and sirens going. A burg in progress is a quiet approach when you get close.
So, the good Prof's disturbance is the issue here. The dude's probably lucky he didn't get a gun pointed at him during the initial approach.
So we have a good samaritian who takes the time to call in a possible burg in progress rather than just walk along glad it's not his home being broken into, rare enough. Cops respond and find an individual matching said descriptive inside. They investigate and he turns tool and starts yelling and screaming.
I might have taken him too. Maybe not, but I'm not going to second guess. The bottom line is that it seems that it was a legal arrest made in good faith. Good luck with any civil suit if there's justice in the world at all.
Dropped charges are out of the hands of the cops and are up to the legal establishment and courts, which are highly politicized. It doesn't suprise me at all that they elected to take the easy way out of this. And quite frankly it probably isn't worth the time. That's their choice. It was the Prof's choice to engage in behavior that met the elements of a criminal offense. He can't whine because officers made the choice to legally effect an arrest.
So, the good Prof's disturbance is the issue here. The dude's probably lucky he didn't get a gun pointed at him during the initial approach.
So we have a good samaritian who takes the time to call in a possible burg in progress rather than just walk along glad it's not his home being broken into, rare enough. Cops respond and find an individual matching said descriptive inside. They investigate and he turns tool and starts yelling and screaming.
I might have taken him too. Maybe not, but I'm not going to second guess. The bottom line is that it seems that it was a legal arrest made in good faith. Good luck with any civil suit if there's justice in the world at all.
Dropped charges are out of the hands of the cops and are up to the legal establishment and courts, which are highly politicized. It doesn't suprise me at all that they elected to take the easy way out of this. And quite frankly it probably isn't worth the time. That's their choice. It was the Prof's choice to engage in behavior that met the elements of a criminal offense. He can't whine because officers made the choice to legally effect an arrest.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
For me, the issue that bugs me is that a person who is not a criminal was arrested. Disorderly conduct is such a bogus charge. The guy was angry and the cop basically arrested him for it. What a chickensh## charge.
In my mind, there's likely fault on both sides for allowing the situation to escalate to the point that the President of the US is commenting on it, but ultimately I fall back to the basic, fundamental truth that this guy was essentially arrested for being a jackass... and if that's illegal, half of our country will be in jail before long.
In my mind, there's likely fault on both sides for allowing the situation to escalate to the point that the President of the US is commenting on it, but ultimately I fall back to the basic, fundamental truth that this guy was essentially arrested for being a jackass... and if that's illegal, half of our country will be in jail before long.
The General Law of Massachusetts
PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT
TITLE VII. CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS
CHAPTER 41. OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS
POLICE OFFICERS
Chapter 41: Section 98D. Identification cards
Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing his photograph and the municipal seal. Such card shall be carried on the officer’s person, and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.
source: Here are the links to the relevant Mass. laws http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98d.htm and http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98c.htm
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shaolinmonkmark
Green Belt
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html
i believe Obama and Gates should aplogize.
i believe Obama and Gates should aplogize.
OP
OP
Archangel M
Senior Master
People who are "not criminals" get arrested all the time. Play your music too loud at 3 Am and tell the cops to go **** themselves and see what happens. Agree with DC statutes or not...it IS a law.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
I really don't think it had anything to do with race. Instead, it had to do with an elitist thinking they were above the law.
I don't care who you are or the color of your skin...you badger the police long enough, including talking about their momma, and you're gonna wind up in cuffs. Regardless of whether you live in an upscale neighborhood or a trailer park.
...just looking back along the thread a little bit. Unless I missed it, nobody answered my question about the cop's response. I was under the impression that you don't respond to a B&E with sirens blaring...am I wrong?
I don't care who you are or the color of your skin...you badger the police long enough, including talking about their momma, and you're gonna wind up in cuffs. Regardless of whether you live in an upscale neighborhood or a trailer park.
...just looking back along the thread a little bit. Unless I missed it, nobody answered my question about the cop's response. I was under the impression that you don't respond to a B&E with sirens blaring...am I wrong?
OP
OP
Archangel M
Senior Master
What it boils down to is that the police officer showed up on a legitimate call from a third party. While conducting his investigation he asks the occupant to step-out (in case there is an intruder inside) asks if there is anybody else inside (IN CASE THERE IS AN INTRUDER INSIDE!!) and is trying to do his JOB! What he gets is this "professor" IMMEDIATELY ASSUMING that the cop is only doing this because hes a "BLACK MAN IN AMERICA!"
While there may be a shared burden in the outcome of this contact, the side that bears the brunt of it is pretty obvious to me.
While there may be a shared burden in the outcome of this contact, the side that bears the brunt of it is pretty obvious to me.
OP
OP
Archangel M
Senior Master
Most PD's train that you use your lights and sirens until you get within a certain distance of the location...at which time you shut down so as not to give away your arrival.
punisher73
Senior Master
You might go lights on to get there quickly, but in the case of B&E's most policy is that you go silent so you can get to them without alerting them and having them get away.
Also, the officer was right in the area with an UNMARKED patrol car since the Sgt. was on administrative assignment.
punisher73
Senior Master
The key here is environment. If you are at a loud rowdy bar you can be a bit more of a jackass and it is not causing a disturbance and the behavior is not so out of the ordinary. If you are in a very nice neighborhood like this and your behavior is scaring other people who live in the area and you are refusing requests to calm down, they probably are going to determine that the best way to reestablish peace was to remove him from the situation.
Granted there are some police who may abuse that charge, but it is a great tool for police officers to remove the subject when they are creating a hostile environment (many domestic situations that haven't crossed over the line yet or neighbors who WILL lead to a fight if someone isn't removed) and the need is there to remove the cause even though another more serious law hasn't been broke yet.
Seriously, ask yourself if you were a cop in that situation and a person was calling you a racist, talking about your mother and showing a complete and total disregard for your authority and then takes it into a public place and continues the behavior after telling him repeatedly to calm down or you would be arrested and the person continues, what would you do? Just turn around and leave? Show that the police don't have any authority to do their jobs? What message does that send to the community with all those people watching that you can treat the police like that?
OP
OP
Archangel M
Senior Master
Breaking News: President calls Police Sgt and apologizes.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Difference being that in your example, someone presumably broke a law. Speaking to your example, though, I've seen this situation more than once, and no one ever got arrested. I've seen a few citations, many warnings and admonishments to keep it down, but never handcuffs. And even in this situation, if the handcuffs were strictly for "telling the cops to go **** themselves" I'd disagree then, too. I'm all for being polite and respectful to everyone, but I also have a well documented stubborn streak and the idea that I should kiss a cop's butt or get arrested really rubs me the wrong way.
Once again, this guy broke no laws. He was arrested for not offering the appropriate degree of respect to the cop.
In my opinion, I should have MORE latitude to act like a douche in my own home than in a public location, even if it's a rowdy bar.
I can completely understand this. I'm not advocating that the law be removed from the books. I'm stating my opinion that this is an example of abuse of that law.
I think it's really, really interesting that you say it like this. To answer your question, I believe that the police officer should remain polite regardless of the amount of verbal abuse he's taking. I believe that, as soon as he ID'd Gates, he should have thanked him for his time, apologized for the confusion and LEFT. The message to the community... I'm not sure I understand your point. It sounds like you're suggesting that Gates was arrested to send a message to the community. I can't understand how you think that might be just. To me, it speaks to insecurity and a lack of professionalism... sort of like Cartman of South Park saying, "You must respect my AUTHORITAH!" and slapping on the cuffs.
Just to set the record straight, I'm not apologizing or condoning Gates' behavior. I simply believe that the cop allowed the situation to escalate unnecessarily and ultimately abused his position by arresting someone for being a jerk.
OP
OP
Archangel M
Senior Master
Sounds like Sgt. Crowley and the Pres are arranging a meeting to "have a beer" at the Whitehouse.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Well, Gates made the statement about not being the kind of person you want to mess with......apparently Sgt. Crowley is the kind of cop who these folks don't want to mess with. A well respected police officer who has been recognized by the community as a positive force......they picked the wrong cop to try and 'Nifong'.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
The police siren and flashing lights are required by law to warn motorists and prevent accidents when responding to priority calls.......of which a home break in qualifies. Don't think so? How do you want the police to respond if your mother, wife or girlfriend is home alone and someone is breaking in their house? Think before you speak.
In addition, creating a disturbance is a very well defined term........following the officer out the door who is trying to leave, and screaming in your front yard certainly qualifies......AGAIN, think before you speak.
If the CPR incident went like the Gates incident has gone, people may be hinting that the 'stupid racist' cop actually killed Reggie Lewis.
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