Racist Cop or Combative Professor?

[Omar B]

It's not like they've never been told off before. It's his house, leave, it's that simple. I know cops have a tough time, my best friend's dad is a NYPD detective, I've heard all the stories. When it was established that there was no crime move on.

 

[CoryKS]

It seems to me that in this case, the assumption of poor treatment by the police due to racism became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Gates framed this as a racial issue from the beginning and responded accordingly, growing angry and indignant until the officer arrested him. Whereas if he had acknowledged the circumstances and focused on establishing his identity, this would have been over quickly.

I read elsewhere that when the officer took him away, he asked Gates if he wanted the officer to lock the house. Gates replied that the door was unlockable due to a previous burglary. So you'd think the guy would have been more receptive to police efforts to prevent another one.

Smoking gun has the police report.

 

[punisher73]

It's not like they've never been told off before. It's his house, leave, it's that simple. I know cops have a tough time, my best friend's dad is a NYPD detective, I've heard all the stories. When it was established that there was no crime move on.

You seem to be missing a key point. When the police first arrived they DID ask Gates for ID and to step outside to confirm his id. Gates did not comply with what they asked for at first and by his own admission was on the phone while the officer was asking him to step outside. It was only after this that Gates went to retrieve his ID.

Many of the people defending Gates read it like he came to the door and then immediately produced ID and then was harassed by the police. That wasn't the case, even by Gates own statement (through his lawyer). Then I see the complaints that the police had no business being there in the first place and were just supposed to leave. Ummmm, someone calls 9-1-1 and we have to look into that until we can determine that everyone and everything is safe.

I think BOTH parties involved overreacted in this situation. I don't think it had anything to do with race, but everything to do with a percieved lack of respect by both. Too bad the officer didn't have a lapel mike on him like many departments do. It would answer all the questions for sure.

Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike.

Here is something from another news article trying to tie this incident to racism in general in that PD/area. Again, do you REALLY think it's the police or is it just people feeling thinking that police can't come up and investigate a situation without it being profiling. As a police officer, if I was on a college campus where there are ALOT of bike thefts each year and I see somebody trying to get a bike lock off using tools and not a key I am going to confront that person and determine ownership and what is going on. It has nothing to do with the person being white/black or any other color under the rainbow.

 

[Omar B]

I hear what you are saying man, but identity was established so the cop should have left. Combative, before, after, during, he didn't hit anybody, he was pissed and got loud at his own place.

 

[blindsage]

I'm truly amazed at the way people comment on situations like this. There's only two sides and two sources on this: the officer's as stated in the (previously posted) police report, and Professor Gates as posted here and here. These are the only sources we have, those and our assumptions based on our beliefs and experiences with police officers and race. A lot of people keep talkin about how belligerent Professor Gates became, he denies this, so the only way to be 'convinced' this is what happened is by accepting the unvarnished 'truth' of the officer's statement. That's not really useful. Sure those that defend Gates are using the victim statement to back up what he says, but those defending the cop are just using the police report to back up what he says. Why is one inherently more credible than the other?

 

[Carol]

Isn't anyone noticing the charges against Professor Gates were dropped?

It doesn't matter whether you are in your own home or not. When you make a ruckus to the point where it can bother other people (the denser the population, the higher the risk) you run the risk for disorderly conduct.

Why isn't President Obama coming to the aid of the woman that was arrested by the Cambridge PD because she flipped out at a Starbucks over the amount of foam in her latte?

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm truly amazed at the way people comment on situations like this. There's only two sides and two sources on this: the officer's as stated in the (previously posted) police report, and Professor Gates as posted here and here. These are the only sources we have, those and our assumptions based on our beliefs and experiences with police officers and race. A lot of people keep talkin about how belligerent Professor Gates became, he denies this, so the only way to be 'convinced' this is what happened is by accepting the unvarnished 'truth' of the officer's statement. That's not really useful. Sure those that defend Gates are using the victim statement to back up what he says, but those defending the cop are just using the police report to back up what he says. Why is one inherently more credible than the other?

While I agree with your comments about two sides and not being there I ask you why did the President of the United States of America express his opinion as Stupidly arressted? Did he wait for all the data?

If our leader can jump to conclusion then why cannot everyone else?

Oh wait, Our Leader is a minority and by calling him on something might be called racism, even if the call is racism in itself?

While everyone makes mistakes those involved in the case originally and our politcal leader as well, I believe we need another nationwide press conference on prime time TV with an apology from the President himself over ASSUMING, the guilt of the officer.

 

[CoryKS]

I'm truly amazed at the way people comment on situations like this. There's only two sides and two sources on this: the officer's as stated in the (previously posted) police report, and Professor Gates as posted here and here. These are the only sources we have, those and our assumptions based on our beliefs and experiences with police officers and race. A lot of people keep talkin about how belligerent Professor Gates became, he denies this, so the only way to be 'convinced' this is what happened is by accepting the unvarnished 'truth' of the officer's statement. That's not really useful. Sure those that defend Gates are using the victim statement to back up what he says, but those defending the cop are just using the police report to back up what he says. Why is one inherently more credible than the other?

Because the police report makes linear sense. If we were to accept Gates' story, we have to accept that the officer was shown ID, found it acceptable, left the house, and then inexplicably arrested Gates when he stepped out of the house. Why didn't he arrest him inside? The police report mentions that a sizable crowd had gathered outside, so it shouldn't be difficult to get corroboration if that were true.

I like how Gates managed to plug his new documentary in both accounts, though. Never let a crisis go to waste.

 

[blindsage]

While I agree with your comments about two sides and not being there I ask you why did the President of the United States of America express his opinion as Stupidly arressted? Did he wait for all the data?

If our leader can jump to conclusion then why cannot everyone else?

I agree. I don't understand why the President made the statement he did. But how does him jumping to a conclusion excuse anyone else?

Oh wait, Our Leader is a minority and by calling him on something might be called racism, even if the call is racism in itself?

Do you have an oppression complex? Every criticism of anyone who is a minority is called racist. A lot of things are racist that many people refuse to recognize and educate themselves on and so get uptight when called on their ignorance.

While everyone makes mistakes those involved in the case originally and our politcal leader as well, I believe we need another nationwide press conference on prime time TV with an apology from the President himself over ASSUMING, the guilt of the officer.

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

 

[blindsage]

Because the police report makes linear sense. If we were to accept Gates' story, we have to accept that the officer was shown ID, found it acceptable, left the house, and then inexplicably arrested Gates when he stepped out of the house. Why didn't he arrest him inside? The police report mentions that a sizable crowd had gathered outside, so it shouldn't be difficult to get corroboration if that were true.

I like how Gates managed to plug his new documentary in both accounts, though. Never let a crisis go to waste.

The police report makes more linear sense if you assume the officer was just innocent and acting in complete good faith. If we were to accept Gates' story the officer would have to account for a lot of things that don't seem kosher. But in either case what you saying is that the officer's report seems more logical to you as it stands, and therefore you can make all kinds of assumptions about Gates'. The logic still isn't holding up.

 

[CoryKS]

The police report makes more linear sense if you assume the officer was just innocent and acting in complete good faith. If we were to accept Gates' story the officer would have to account for a lot of things that don't seem kosher. But in either case what you saying is that the officer's report seems more logical to you as it stands, and therefore you can make all kinds of assumptions about Gates'. The logic still isn't holding up.

Whatever, man. Like I said, either there were witnesses outside or there weren't. In any case, the charges got dropped so we probably won't hear from them. The fact that Gates is still crying like a little ***** about this tends to support the police account, IMO. But I'm not a juror on the trial which won't happen, so it doesn't matter what I think.

Interesting.

 

[Omar B]

The police report mentions that a sizable crowd had gathered outside, so it shouldn't be difficult to get corroboration if that were true.

But was the crowd caused by Gates or by the police cruiser presumably speeding through a residential area to a "crime scene" sirens blaring? I think people would have showed up wither way.

 

[Carol]

But was the crowd caused by Gates or by the police cruiser presumably speeding through a residential area to a "crime scene" sirens blaring? I think people would have showed up wither way.

Ware street in Cambridge is not a residential area. Its not possible for anyone (police or otherwise) to speed through Harvard Square.

 

[CoryKS]

But was the crowd caused by Gates or by the police cruiser presumably speeding through a residential area to a "crime scene" sirens blaring? I think people would have showed up wither way.

You'd have to ask them. Which nobody will, now that the governor has apologized to Gates and the press has moved on to investigating Crowley's racial credentials.

 

[crushing]

Some more information about the officer that arrested Gates for disorderly conduct:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly

The article ends with the following:

Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike.

Isn't it a good idea for officers to question people that are breaking in to things, regardless of race, creed, gender, etc.? If not just to find out if the person doing the breaking and entering is the lawful owner?

These things remind me of a Chris Rock video:
Warning!!!! Contains Profanity and Acted Violence

[yt]uj0mtxXEGE8[/yt]

 

[crushing]

But was the crowd caused by Gates or by the police cruiser presumably speeding through a residential area to a "crime scene" sirens blaring? I think people would have showed up wither way.

Were those descriptions in the straw man report?

 

[Omar B]

Ware street in Cambridge is not a residential area. Its not possible for anyone (police or otherwise) to speed through Harvard Square.

Slow intersection huh. More time for more people on a busier street to hear and see the police car and siren and wonder over. So maybe this commotion and crowd gathering was in large part there for the officer's presence. I know when there's a siren in NY people gather, not a good habit but people do.

 

[Rich Parsons]

From:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly

Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on understanding racial profiling.
Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class about racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming

The officer knows his job and actually teaches the class on the subject at hand.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I agree. I don't understand why the President made the statement he did. But how does him jumping to a conclusion excuse anyone else?

It does not. But by being sarcastic and also by jumping to conclusion in my posts I make it so obvious to how bad it is to do so.

Do you have an oppression complex? Every criticism of anyone who is a minority is called racist. A lot of things are racist that many people refuse to recognize and educate themselves on and so get uptight when called on their ignorance.

I do not have an oppression complex.

I have been beat up by the police.

I have been targeted by lots of border checks and also security at airports. Everytime I go through a secure check point I get more checks then anyone else I know. This is not an opression complex, it is a statement of fact.

I can tell you stories that would have you laughing at how outrageous they are and later after you think about it having you cry as to how could that actually happen.

Yes, may do get upset about being called out.

But, my personal list of friends, and those I call brother of another mother, are not all caucasion, and I personally have stood up to both white and black people and groups for their racists comments.

And in this case I think the President was being racist in that he assummed another White police officer was trying to beat and keep down an educated Black man. So I made my points that people should apologize for their actions.

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

 

[Archangel M]

I keep hearing the "this is a case of racial PROFILING"...they keep on using those words, I dont not think they mean what they think they mean.

Profiling means targeting a person for the initiation of police contact. I stop you because you are a black guy driving in a "white neighborhood". I stop some black youth on a bike because hes in a white neighborhood where there have been bike thefts...those are "profiling" (in the "Wrong" sense...there are also examples of legitimate uses of "profiling"). Making a valid arrest of someone doesn't make it "profiling" just because they were black. If I get called by SOMEONE ELSE to the scene of a crime and make an arrest very rarely does "profiling" enter the equation...9 times out of 10 profiling is is done when the cop is looking to make contact with someone.