Pros and Cons of Carrying A Weapon

[MJS]

Agoraphobia or not, if you lock yourself in a box where you cannot be attacked, that is the ultimate way to defend yourself form physical harm from others.

Lets keep in mind that we're trying to have a serious discussion here. While you say that this is the 'ultimate way to protect yourself from harm' please keep in mind that it is certainly not realistic in any way.

 

[MJS]

Some people have no capacity for violence. These people should not carry weapons. Some people do have a capacity for violence, carry weapons, and have a willingness to use them (in only the most dire of circumstances, knock on wood, hope that day never comes).

It is this second group of people towards whom this thread is directed. People who know that situational awareness is first. That avoidance is always best. And that when the **** hits the fan, it's time to do something about it.

Thank you!:asian:

 

[KenpoTex]

Well that is your choise. Since 99% of self defense is awareness and 99% of the remaining percent is knowing how to get out of any dangerous situation (run) I feel I need to carry a gun or a knife in my daily knife as much as I need a charm against vampires.

I definately agree that awareness and avoidance top the list of important skills. However it's for that 1% of 1% (would that be .0001% ???) that I want the abilty to respond with something more effective than empty-hand technique alone should the need arise.

I have however carried a weapon when I knew I might get into trouble.

When you KNEW you might get into trouble? sounds like the types of places/situations that should be avoided in the first place. Again, [most] people who choose to carry weapons for self-defense are not paranoid. We don't see ninja assassins behind every tree. We just recognize that you can be attacked regardless of where you are. Just because there are probably fewer violent crimes in a "nice" part of town than there are in the ghetto doesn't mean that it never happens.

So when you pack a gun you only intend to use it to shoot holes in people?

Short answer, guns are designed to shoot holes in people. So...yeah, pretty much.

Slightly less flippant answer: As I said before, if I have to draw a weapon, whether it's a gun or a knife, the situation is very bad. Basically, for me to deploy a weapon, I'd have to feel that my life/safety or the life/safety of someone whom I felt an obligation to protect was in serious jeapordy and that nothing short of an armed response would neutralize the threat. Once this point has been reached, there should be no hesitation. This is not to say that drawing a weapon automatically means someone is going to die. Theoretically, it's possible that they may see me draw, decide that they aren't as serious as they were a moment ago, and give some indication (verbal or physical) that they wish to disengage/de-escalate. Obviously at this point, any further force would be excessive. I'm not going to shoot or stab someone once they've backed off and raised their hands or started running away. In fact, in the USA, it's estimated that over 90% of defensive gun uses involve nothing more than presenting the weapon. For that matter, look at police statistics. Most of the incidents in which they draw their sidearms do not involve actual shooting (I'm sure our various LEO members would confirm this).
So, how do the above factors "dovetail" into my individual philosphy? It's simple. If I have to draw a weapon, the person(s) who are the source of the threat have however long it takes for me to deploy the weapon to disengage. If they still present a threat once I've gotten my pistol to a firing postion, or once I have a knife in my hand (neither of which takes more than about 1.5-2 seconds on average), I will use said weapon with the intention of immediately rendering them incapable of further violence.

I've said everything I intend to say on this particular subject. Like you said, it's a personal choice. If you really believe that you can handle any situation without weapons: Fine, don't carry them. But don't be so arrogant as to cast disparaging remarks at those of us who do.

edit: rutherford beat me to the Grossman info...didn't catch it earlier

 

[shesulsa]

Short answer, guns are designed to shoot holes in people.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

That said, however, a person can sometimes be held at gunpoint as a control tactic, no? Knifepoint as well? The bad guys aren't the only ones who can/will do this.

 

[Cirdan]

Lets keep in mind that we're trying to have a serious discWhen you KNEW you might get into trouble? sounds like the types of places/situations that should be avoided in the first place.ussion here. While you say that this is the 'ultimate way to protect yourself from harm' please keep in mind that it is certainly not realistic in any way.

This was meant in all seriousness. The point is that we all sacrifice some safety in order to live the lives we want. Arming youreslf is yourself is in many ways putting a cube of responsibility around you.

When you KNEW you might get into trouble? sounds like the types of places/situations that should be avoided in the first place.

Of course. But things are a little different when an unstable person in the local community has threatened your elderly parents and tried to run you over with a tractor. However the situation was resolved without much violence.

I've said everything I intend to say on this particular subject. Like you said, it's a personal choice. If you really believe that you can handle any situation without weapons: Fine, don't carry them. But don't be so arrogant as to cast disparaging remarks at those of us who do.

I won`t apologize for my views. Call me naive and arrogant all you wish. Let`s just agree that we disagree and leve it at that then.

 

[MJS]

This was meant in all seriousness. The point is that we all sacrifice some safety in order to live the lives we want. Arming youreslf is yourself is in many ways putting a cube of responsibility around you.

I believe that you quoted 2 posts into 1. Personally, I think that its pretty foolish to think that you can totally isolate yourself. If thats the lifestyle that you wish to lead, then so be it, but as I said before, I think that we need to think on a more realistic level here.

Of course. But things are a little different when an unstable person in the local community has threatened your elderly parents and tried to run you over with a tractor. However the situation was resolved without much violence.

Perhaps calling the police would be an option.

I won`t apologize for my views. Call me naive and arrogant all you wish. Let`s just agree that we disagree and leve it at that then.

You're entitled to have your views, beliefs, etc., but please keep an open mind and be a bit more receptive to others that also have different views. What may work for you may not work for the next person.

 

[Cirdan]

I believe that you quoted 2 posts into 1. Personally, I think that its pretty foolish to think that you can totally isolate yourself. If thats the lifestyle that you wish to lead, then so be it, but as I said before, I think that we need to think on a more realistic level here.

I do not live that kind of life nor did I suggest that others should. However the statement is still true. If you think about it in a little philosophical way you might come to some interesting conclusions. I used it as a slihtly ironic reply to the argument that all places are potentially dangerous.

Perhaps calling the police would be an option.

An option taken but things takes takes time in cases of word against word and little hard evidence like this.

You're entitled to have your views, beliefs, etc., but please keep an open mind and be a bit more receptive to others that also have different views. What may work for you may not work for the next person.

Thank you. I do try to keep an open mind. However what we are discussing here are serious things, not what shade of blue is better for the living room curtains. And frankly, some of the claims that has been made here are very much out of touch with reality. I did not indtend to derail the thread with my first post, nor start start an argument. I likely won`t post again.

 

[MJS]

I do not live that kind of life nor did I suggest that others should. However the statement is still true. If you think about it in a little philosophical way you might come to some interesting conclusions. I used it as a slihtly ironic reply to the argument that all places are potentially dangerous.

Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, as that does happen on the forum from time to time. I guess I was getting the impression that rather than take the route of SD, you were suggesting to just totally isolate yourself, thereby eliminating the problem.

An option taken but things takes takes time in cases of word against word and little hard evidence like this.

Yes, many times it is the word against word situation. That is the job of the LEO to sort out and come to a conclusion. However, it would be a good idea to have documentation of any threats, harrassment, etc. that you may get. In the event something did happen, the "My word against his word" argument would hold less ground on his end, as there would be documentation of past threats.

Thank you. I do try to keep an open mind. However what we are discussing here are serious things, not what shade of blue is better for the living room curtains. And frankly, some of the claims that has been made here are very much out of touch with reality. I did not indtend to derail the thread with my first post, nor start start an argument. I likely won`t post again.

As it was said, both by myself and a few others. We all train for different reasons. Some choose to take one path of dealing with something, and some choose a different one. Is one better than the other? Depends on the person. Perhaps things were out of touch with reality in your eyes, but that does not mean that someone else may find that to be the complete opposite.

Please don't let this stop you from posting. However, if that is the path you decide, thats fine.

Mike

 

[KenpoTex]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

That said, however, a person can sometimes be held at gunpoint as a control tactic, no? Knifepoint as well? The bad guys aren't the only ones who can/will do this.

Yes they can be held at gunpoint/knifepoint. However, we're not cops, it's not our job to arrest or detain them; our job is to survive (preferably by running like crazy so we don't have to worry about using any force). Like I said, if they surrender, I'll prone them out and wait for the police to show up. However, I'm not going to draw with the intent of "controlling" them, I'm going to draw with the intent of stopping them.

 

[shesulsa]

However, I'm not going to draw with the intent of "controlling" them, I'm going to draw with the intent of stopping them.

And there it is, really, in a nutshell, now isn't it? One should not carry nor draw anything unless completely and totally willing and ready to use it and deal with the mess one gets to experience when one does.

 

[KenpoTex]

And there it is, really, in a nutshell, now isn't it? One should not carry nor draw anything unless completely and totally willing and ready to use it and deal with the mess one gets to experience when one does.

Well said.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Carry and train with a cane.

Check out www.goju-shorei.com or www.canemasters.com for some details on learning how. The cane is an awesome self-defense weapon.

I've trained on the cane since 1998 and carried one with me while travelling in Asia and South America. It goes easily through customs and they'll still let you take one on a plane.

Key advantages to a cane:

It's brutal: imagine a jo staff with a hook on one end.

It's a little esoteric: if you drop it, the bad guy is less likely to be able to weild it against you effectively.

It's non-escalatory: canes are not perceived as being weapons. You can take one to a confrontation and it won't put the other side on their guard. In fact, people are more likely to be nice to you because they think you're disabled.

Seriously, there is no better weapon for 21st century America.

Peace & Strength,

Jason Brick