Pros and Cons of Carrying A Weapon

[shesulsa]

Notice what I said about awareness? I did not say "be stupid"

Cirdan, could you please point to my exact wording that made you feel I said you were saying "be stupid"?

 

[Cirdan]

The unsuspecting victim feeling errantly secure because they are in a nice part of town might as well wear a large target upon their person.

There is a differenc between feeling secure and being oblivious.

 

[Cryozombie]

Of course it matters where you live. If you "must" arm yourself with lethal weapons in a peaceful community

You also make an assumption when we say "carry a weapon" that we mean a knife.

I wonder why that is...

I mentioned training with my belt, and its no secret that I have a kuboton on my keyring, Ive talked about it quite a bit on this board.

 

[Cirdan]

The knife was an example. Insert gun if you wish. However I do view the knife as an extremely poor item for self defense since it does not let you control the situation like a gun does and unlike a club any offensive use with it can result in death real fast.

As for the mag-lite, good idea. How do you use a belt to any effect? Does it need a heavy buckle to work? I was slapped in the face with belts several times by some would-be robbers once but it only made me mad and I scared them off.

 

[hemi]

Wow I have been away from this forum for a little bit, but I was reading all the posts on this thread and it got me to thinking. I have been considering carrying a knife for defense but came to the conclusion that in my case it’s probably is not a good idea as I have no training in “combat use” of a knife. But on that note that got me to thinking as a martial artist maybe a new one but none the less I am training in a form of fighting hand to hand. It seems to reason that a person with some martial arts skill would be able to throw and land some if not most of the strikes they were throwing. Also in the case of using a knife for defense as some choose to do in that case would you not have to be pretty close to the attacker to use said weapon? Could you not replace the knife with a stun gun? You have to be close with either weapon one uses non lethal force and would have much less serious ramifications if used even for self defense.

Just my .02

 

[MJS]

The knife was an example. Insert gun if you wish. However I do view the knife as an extremely poor item for self defense since it does not let you control the situation like a gun does and unlike a club any offensive use with it can result in death real fast.

As for the mag-lite, good idea. How do you use a belt to any effect? Does it need a heavy buckle to work? I was slapped in the face with belts several times by some would-be robbers once but it only made me mad and I scared them off.

Please take note of my first post. There are many things that can be used as a weapon. I mentioned a gun, knife, pepper spray and mace. Keys a pen, book bag, purse, etc. can all be improvised weapons.

Regardless of the choice of weapon, being able to access it when you need it is important. A gun is most effecitve at a distance, although it can be used in-close. What we should be looking at is: Can we access our weapon, regardless of what it is, and use it effectively?

Of course it matters where you live. If you "must" arm yourself with lethal weapons in a peaceful community that`s just sheer paranoia or "the seventeen uzi wielding ninja syndrome." Honing your awareness and practice running are much better self defense than training with knives.
No training in the world will prepare you for stabbing another person.

As its been already mentioned, crime can happen anywhere. Of course, there are areas that are worse, but just because a town/city seems good, that does not mean anything. I live about 20 min away from Hartford, CT. the capital city. The crime rate is much higher than the town in which I live. However, 2 days ago, a bank, just down the road from where I live, was robbed. Around the beginning of the year, a female was carjacked in a shopping plaza about 2 miles from where I live. My town has a low crime rate compared to a larger city in CT. but as you can see, crime can happen anywhere.

Mike

 

[Cryozombie]

I was slapped in the face with belts several times by some would-be robbers once but it only made me mad and I scared them off.

If the person is only "slapping" you with the belt, they didnt know how to use it. The deal is that "flexible" weapons are hard to use, but if you can use em they are good weapons. Watch video of shirt techniques sometime and see what I mean...

 

[Cirdan]

Can we access our weapon, regardless of what it is, and use it effectively?

The first tought of any responsible person should be if he is prepared to use the weapon and if he is ready to deal with the concequenses of this. That`s why it is important to consider the properties of what you intend to carry and if you need it.

As its been already mentioned, crime can happen anywhere. Of course, there are areas that are worse, but just because a town/city seems good, that does not mean anything. I live about 20 min away from Hartford, CT. the capital city. The crime rate is much higher than the town in which I live. However, 2 days ago, a bank, just down the road from where I live, was robbed. Around the beginning of the year, a female was carjacked in a shopping plaza about 2 miles from where I live. My town has a low crime rate compared to a larger city in CT. but as you can see, crime can happen anywhere.

Mike

Indeed. The ultimate self defense is to lock yourself in a room.

 

[Cirdan]

If the person is only "slapping" you with the belt, they didnt know how to use it. The deal is that "flexible" weapons are hard to use, but if you can use em they are good weapons. Watch video of shirt techniques sometime and see what I mean...

I still got a scar from the experience but how do you do some real damage? What is a shirt technique and where can I watch a video of it?

 

[MJS]

The first tought of any responsible person should be if he is prepared to use the weapon and if he is ready to deal with the concequenses of this. That`s why it is important to consider the properties of what you intend to carry and if you need it.

Having an understanding of the laws would come in handy here.

Indeed. The ultimate self defense is to lock yourself in a room.

Well, I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I need to make a living, so locking myself in my house and never going out is an option that is not available to me. Being aware of your surroundings is one of the most valuable tools that anyone can carry.

Mike

 

[Cirdan]

Having an understanding of the laws would come in handy here.
Mike

I guess it would, but I was actually talking about the psychological concequenses.

Some interesting reading:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/costknife.htm
(yes knives again. sorry)

 

[MJS]

I guess it would, but I was actually talking about the psychological concequenses.

Some interesting reading:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/costknife.htm
(yes knives again. sorry)

Thanks for the link. Marcs' material does make for very interesting and informative reading. I do have to say though, that you seem to be fixated on the knife, although I stated that that was only one of the many weapons available to us. We need to keep in mind, that regardless of whether we use a knife, a gun, a pen, a marker, or empty hand, any self defense situation will prove to be very stressfull and take a toll on us, both mentally and physically. This area...the after effects of the fight as well as the actions that we choose...is often neglected by many schools, but seems to be a big part of what the RBSD (Realtity Based Self Defense) guys preach.

People join the Martial Arts for many different reasons. For those that join for the purpose of SD, should ask themselves, if faced with an attacker, bent on causing us harm, will we be able to bring ourselves to actually defend ourselves, even if it was to go as drastic as gouging someone in the eyes? What about a gun? Can or could we actually bring ourselves to shoot someone? Whats the purpose of having that gun if you are not going to be able to bring yourself to shoot someone?

 

[Cirdan]

A very interesting question indeed. The percentage of soldiers during WWI that actually fired their guns at the enemy was as low as 2%! The others were either not pulling the trigger or shooting at the sky, ground or whatever. However they did help out by just being there for support and acting as cannon fodder. It was much later that the military managed to get this percentage up to a accseptable level (85%?) by using better preparing training methods. Carrying a gun for defense might very well cause a false sense of security, espesially for untrained civillians. Then again the threat of a gun makes it a good control tool since there is little defense against a bullet.

 

[rutherford]

Indeed. The ultimate self defense is to lock yourself in a room.

That's not self-defense, in fact it's the exact opposite. That's called Agoraphobia, and it's when your fear gets the best of you.

I still got a scar from the experience but how do you do some real damage? What is a shirt technique and where can I watch a video of it?

For striking, most people understand how to crack a towel. It's the same principle. Strike like you're wielding a whip, and your belt will likely leave some nasty scars. A buckle, or a chain, will shatter bone.

However, I far prefer to use flexible weapons to control limbs and deny access to tools. Tie up a wrist, take their space and move so that it's now pinned to their body. Take their balance, and now they're on the ground.

I also use them to wrap up and lock opponents. Consider the simple example of wrapping your belt around somebody's neck and putting your knee in their back. I think you get the idea.

pesilat has some video of him doing some flexible weapons teaching in the Members in Motion forum.

 

[MJS]

A very interesting question indeed. The percentage of soldiers during WWI that actually fired their guns at the enemy was as low as 2%! The others were either not pulling the trigger or shooting at the sky, ground or whatever. However they did help out by just being there for support and acting as cannon fodder. It was much later that the military managed to get this percentage up to a accseptable level (85%?) by using better preparing training methods.

I'm a bit behind on my history, but I'd be interested in seeing a link, if you can provide one, that shows the stats.

Carrying a gun for defense might very well cause a false sense of security, espesially for untrained civillians. Then again the threat of a gun makes it a good control tool since there is little defense against a bullet.

Well, as I said in the beginning, a weapon is going to be only as good, if its able to be accessed in a timely fashion. If the gun is tucked away in a purse or under a winter jacket, is the person using it, going to be able to access it, and apply it, before a counter from the attacker? Keep in mind that this goes for any weapon that we may use.

In addition, as I also stated, a gun needs to be pointed at the person in order for it to be 100% effective. Going on what I said above, is the person using it also going to be able to function under the conditions that normally do not get practiced by the average person at the average range in the average gun class? Conditions meaning: low light, moving targets, stressfull conditions.

Mike

 

[MJS]

However, I far prefer to use flexible weapons to control limbs and deny access to tools. Tie up a wrist, take their space and move so that it's now pinned to their body. Take their balance, and now they're on the ground.

I also use them to wrap up and lock opponents. Consider the simple example of wrapping your belt around somebody's neck and putting your knee in their back. I think you get the idea.

Great points! I was thinking along the same lines!

 

[Cirdan]

I'm a bit behind on my history, but I'd be interested in seeing a link, if you can provide one, that shows the stats.
Mike

I don`t have any links right now, however the National geographic channel had a documentary or two some time ago about this subject. I think the title was "about killing" or somehing similar.

That's not self-defense, in fact it's the exact opposite. That's called Agoraphobia, and it's when your fear gets the best of you.

Agoraphobia or not, if you lock yourself in a box where you cannot be attacked, that is the ultimate way to defend yourself form physical harm from others.

Thanks for the information on flexible weapons.

 

[rutherford]

Agoraphobia or not, if you lock yourself in a box where you cannot be attacked, that is the ultimate way to defend yourself form physical harm from others.

But then you'll be without a life or liberty to defend. A hopeless and worthless existence, with nothing left. Physical harm would be a welcome change if I had to live that way.

Some people have no capacity for violence. These people should not carry weapons. Some people do have a capacity for violence, carry weapons, and have a willingness to use them (in only the most dire of circumstances, knock on wood, hope that day never comes).

It is this second group of people towards whom this thread is directed. People who know that situational awareness is first. That avoidance is always best. And that when the **** hits the fan, it's time to do something about it.

Have you read any Dave Grossman? It goes well with the Marc MacYoung books. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18410

 

[KenpoTex]

Of course it matters where you live. If you "must" arm yourself with lethal weapons in a peaceful community that`s just sheer paranoia or "the seventeen uzi wielding ninja syndrome." Honing your awareness and practice running are much better self defense than training with knives.
No training in the world will prepare you for stabbing another person.

Actually I'm neither paranoid nor am I affected by the "the seventeen uzi wielding ninja syndrome." I simply choose to arm myself as effectively as is legally and practically possible. Also, when did I ever say or infer that weapons could replace awareness and training?

The knife was an example. Insert gun if you wish. However I do view the knife as an extremely poor item for self defense since it does not let you control the situation like a gun does and unlike a club any offensive use with it can result in death real fast.

Personally, I feel that if the situation has degenerated to the point where it becomes necessary to introduce a weapon, "controlling the situation" is no longer a real option.

Could you not replace the knife with a stun gun? You have to be close with either weapon one uses non lethal force and would have much less serious ramifications if used even for self defense.

I would not recommend a stun gun. They are not a self-defense tool, they're a control device. Even as a control device their effectivness is questionable. I've been zapped with one of the 250,000 volt models and while it hurt, it was not enough to limit my mobility.

I'm a bit behind on my history, but I'd be interested in seeing a link, if you can provide one, that shows the stats.

That stat comes from Col. Dave Grossman's book On Killing. However, I wouldn't take it as the gospel, there has been a lot of controversy over his "findings." I honestly haven't formed a solid opinion about his stats because there's so much debate.

 

[Cirdan]

Actually I'm neither paranoid nor am I affected by the "the seventeen uzi wielding ninja syndrome." I simply choose to arm myself as effectively as is legally and practically possible.

Well that is your choise. Since 99% of self defense is awareness and 99% of the remaining percent is knowing how to get out of any dangerous situation (run) I feel I need to carry a gun or a knife in my daily knife as much as I need a charm against vampires. I have however carried a weapon when I knew I might get into trouble.

Personally, I feel that if the situation has degenerated to the point where it becomes necessary to introduce a weapon, "controlling the situation" is no longer a real option.

So when you pack a gun you only intend to use it to shoot holes in people?

Rutherford: thanks for the link. Seems really interesting.